From 2019 (Nature):

Quote: The results paint a picture of definite disparity when it comes to race and police shootings. Although more white people are shot in total, people from minority ethnic groups are shot at higher rates by population. One paper published in August found that a black man is 2.5 times more likely than a white man to be killed by the police during his lifetime...

Did the suspect have a weapon? Were officers or another civilian being threatened? In a 2017 study3, for example, Nix determined that black people fatally shot by the police were twice as likely as white people to be unarmed. Those findings align with many studies published since 2015 suggesting that racial biases do influence police shootings...

A 2017 study of data collected from the Dallas Police Department in Texas indicated that although race was not a significant factor in decisions to pull the trigger, Dallas officers were more likely to draw their firearms on minority suspects.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

(06-07-2020 07:03 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  From 2019 (Nature):

Quote:
The results paint a picture of definite disparity when it comes to race and police shootings. Although more white people are shot in total, people from minority ethnic groups are shot at higher rates by population. One paper published in August found that a black man is 2.5 times more likely than a white man to be killed by the police during his lifetime...
Did the suspect have a weapon? Were officers or another civilian being threatened? In a 2017 study3, for example, Nix determined that black people fatally shot by the police were twice as likely as white people to be unarmed. Those findings align with many studies published since 2015 suggesting that racial biases do influence police shootings...
A 2017 study of data collected from the Dallas Police Department in Texas indicated that although race was not a significant factor in decisions to pull the trigger, Dallas officers were more likely to draw their firearms on minority suspects.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

That shows how statistics can be used to mislead.

The 2.5 times as likely to be killed--that's 1 in 200,000 versus 1 in 500,000.

The twice likely to be killed if unarmed--that's 1 in 5 million versus 1 in 10 million.

The reality is that the prospects of either being killed are extremely remote. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. These are statistics being used to perpetuate damned lies. I'd say the author is lying in a dangerous way that will exacerbate the situation.

As for the Dallas statistics, what are the actual numbers?

The people who use proportionality to show racism are extraordinarily dense for Rice grads. I think it must be willful.

If you hike in bear country, you will have more bear encounters.
If you have more bear encounters, the more bears will end up dead.

Police patrol more in high crime areas. They do not assign patrol proportionate to race.

High crime areas are usually low income areas, and low income people are not represented proportionately to the general population. This is one of the complaints of the Progressive movement.

So it is entirely logical and reasonable that police interactions with minorities will be disproportionate to race. Strange that the Progs here think the police should carry a tally board showing when their contacts are getting disproportionate, and decline new one that fail to bring the proportions back to the norm.

Proportionality is the refuge of weak arguments.

(06-07-2020 07:03 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  From 2019 (Nature):

Quote: The results paint a picture of definite disparity when it comes to race and police shootings. Although more white people are shot in total, people from minority ethnic groups are shot at higher rates by population. One paper published in August found that a black man is 2.5 times more likely than a white man to be killed by the police during his lifetime...

Did the suspect have a weapon? Were officers or another civilian being threatened? In a 2017 study3, for example, Nix determined that black people fatally shot by the police were twice as likely as white people to be unarmed. Those findings align with many studies published since 2015 suggesting that racial biases do influence police shootings...

A 2017 study of data collected from the Dallas Police Department in Texas indicated that although race was not a significant factor in decisions to pull the trigger, Dallas officers were more likely to draw their firearms on minority suspects.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

Just admit, the ringing cry of 'systemic issue' is simply bull****. I dont see the value of the continued fight in light of the objective numbers.

9 deaths. vs 19 deaths.

Lightning strikes. Dog attacks.

But please continue the good fight. Why am I not surprised.....

I know having a theological belief in something destroyed by objective numbers is tough.

Dog attacks.

Certainly, if some Progressives get their way, there will be less or no policing in minority areas. This should immediately reduce the proportion of stops and arrests for minorities. It also should be accompanied by a skyrocketing of crime in those areas - crime usually perpetuated against minority citizens. But the proportionality concerns will be addressed. Proportionality is more important than results, in some minds.

On the specific phrasing of LAW AND ORDER:

(06-07-2020 10:19 AM)At Ease Wrote:  On the specific phrasing of LAW AND ORDER:

What a crock.

(06-07-2020 10:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 10:19 AM)At Ease Wrote:  On the specific phrasing of LAW AND ORDER:

What a crock.

Amazing that a person with a triple digit IQ would buy this. Not so amazing that a person who would buy the Russian Collusion Theory would buy this.

(06-07-2020 09:56 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 07:03 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  From 2019 (Nature):

Quote: The results paint a picture of definite disparity when it comes to race and police shootings. Although more white people are shot in total, people from minority ethnic groups are shot at higher rates by population. One paper published in August found that a black man is 2.5 times more likely than a white man to be killed by the police during his lifetime...

Did the suspect have a weapon? Were officers or another civilian being threatened? In a 2017 study3, for example, Nix determined that black people fatally shot by the police were twice as likely as white people to be unarmed. Those findings align with many studies published since 2015 suggesting that racial biases do influence police shootings...

A 2017 study of data collected from the Dallas Police Department in Texas indicated that although race was not a significant factor in decisions to pull the trigger, Dallas officers were more likely to draw their firearms on minority suspects.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

Just admit, the ringing cry of 'systemic issue' is simply bull****. I dont see the value of the continued fight in light of the objective numbers.

9 deaths. vs 19 deaths.

Lightning strikes. Dog attacks.

But please continue the good fight. Why am I not surprised.....

I know having a theological belief in something destroyed by objective numbers is tough.

Dog attacks.

What’s bull**** is the numbers you present.

More than 28 people in the country died at the hands of police in 2019. Those number are the number of UNARMED people SHOT by police in 2019, which should be shocking enough given that the people were unarmed and gunned down.

Let’s look at total deaths in 2019.

Quote: Even after a 4% decline from 2018, the number of deaths due to police harm in 2019 – 1,099, according to Mapping Police Violence – was higher than in 2014.

In fact, people of color were more likely to be the victims of this harm in 2019 than they were in 2014. In 2019, 54% of those who died as a result of harm from police and whose race was identified were people of color – including Asian, Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander individuals – compared to 50% in 2014.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/202...e-of-color

But again, you’re focusing on a single data point of policing to try and suggest that the are not systemic issues (and a data point that isn’t even k early compelling). What about frequency of being pulled over by race? What about drug arrests by race? Let’s look at the entire body of work and evaluate if we see disparities broken down along racial lines.

Quote: African Americans are arrested for violating marijuana possession laws at nearly four times the rates of whites, yet both ethnicities consume marijuana at roughly the same rates.

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/...#gsc.tab=0

Quote: "Relative to their share of the residential population, we find that black drivers are, on average, stopped more often than whites," reads the study, released by the Stanford Computational Policy Lab and featuring data organized by the Stanford Open Policing Project.

The study's authors acknowledged that basing this disparity on bias is hard to do in a statistically significant way, so they also analyzed the data using what they called the "veil of darkness" test. Essentially, they looked at the racial breakdown of only the traffic stops made after dark, when the race of a motorist is harder to discern.

Even when applied to different subsets of data, the results "[showed] a marked drop in the proportion of drivers stopped after dusk who are black, suggestive of discrimination in stop decisions."

The study also looked at data related to police searches of stopped cars, and found searches on black and Hispanic motorists seemed to have a "lower bar" than searches on white motorists.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com...index.html

Or maybe you are right and there is absolutely no impact of race on policing and everyone is truly treated perfectly equal all the time and we all hold hands and sign happy songs together.

(06-07-2020 11:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 10:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 10:19 AM)At Ease Wrote:  On the specific phrasing of LAW AND ORDER:

What a crock.

Amazing that a person with a triple digit IQ would buy this. Not so amazing that a person who would buy the Russian Collusion Theory would buy this.

This is on par with the Republic of Texas or the Posse Comitatus groups' ideologies.

I was once in courtroom where this RoT adherent made the argument that the court id not have jurisdiction over him because of fringe on the flag. Really.

He said, the flag in the courtroom had yellow fringe on it -- which made it a naval ensign and because of that the power that the court was exercising with was either that of an Admiralty court of a military court.

He then made a statement that the matter in question was not proper for a either court, and that neither court had jurisdiction over him.

But the Whack a Mole has increasingly started down these very weird tangents (I seem to remember one about the Rothchilds and Soros and the Bitibergers or some claptrap like that recently.

This one further paints Mr Mole into a very select sliver of the population that exhibits rather paranoid behavior that reaches into some really weird ass conclusions. I readily suspect that at come point we will get a discourse from him on the Lizard People and the Greys. And their association with Nazi bases in the Antarctic. And, of course Trump is at the center of the web.

I have Mole on 'ignore', but thank you for replying this one so I can see it in all its glory.

(06-07-2020 10:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What a crock.

(06-07-2020 11:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Amazing that a person with a triple digit IQ would buy this. Not so amazing that a person who would buy the Russian Collusion Theory would buy this.

Whew, that's a relief. Remember, some of us weren't alive during the halcyon days of the mid 20th century that are targeted by MAGA, when America had LAW AND ORDER and things figured out when it comes to race relations.

(06-07-2020 11:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 09:56 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 07:03 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  From 2019 (Nature):

Quote: The results paint a picture of definite disparity when it comes to race and police shootings. Although more white people are shot in total, people from minority ethnic groups are shot at higher rates by population. One paper published in August found that a black man is 2.5 times more likely than a white man to be killed by the police during his lifetime...

Did the suspect have a weapon? Were officers or another civilian being threatened? In a 2017 study3, for example, Nix determined that black people fatally shot by the police were twice as likely as white people to be unarmed. Those findings align with many studies published since 2015 suggesting that racial biases do influence police shootings...

A 2017 study of data collected from the Dallas Police Department in Texas indicated that although race was not a significant factor in decisions to pull the trigger, Dallas officers were more likely to draw their firearms on minority suspects.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

Just admit, the ringing cry of 'systemic issue' is simply bull****. I dont see the value of the continued fight in light of the objective numbers.

9 deaths. vs 19 deaths.

Lightning strikes. Dog attacks.

But please continue the good fight. Why am I not surprised.....

I know having a theological belief in something destroyed by objective numbers is tough.

Dog attacks.

What’s bull**** is the numbers you present.

Funny, the numbers *you* present dont in any way account for the somewhat cogent fact that police tend to patrol crime areas -- not River Oaks. That, in conjunction with the massively out of proportion statistics regarding black violent crime rates tells a rather interesting story when together. Funny, that thing that you plop onto the floor stunningly doesnt bother with that common sense issue.

Quote:More than 28 people in the country died at the hands of police in 2019. Those number are the number of UNARMED people SHOT by police in 2019,

No fing ****. Perhaps that is why the total numbers and the unarmed numbers were noted. Perhaps read a little more comprehensively *before* an AHA moment that has already been noted. maybe that is the reason the number 9, and the number 19 were specifically noted as unarmed.

Did you not bother to note that very specific issue in the context of the 10 or so posts about that? Seriously dude....

Quote:which should be shocking enough given that the people were unarmed and gunned down.

I guess that is enough for yo uto bance the cha cha cha of pervasive and systemic issue to death. No one is delimiting the valaue of any of those 28 lives -- but good fing god when you try and gin that 28 into a NATIONAL AND EARTH SHATTERING issue is just kind of beyond the pale of stupid.

Quote:Let’s look at total deaths in 2019.

Quote: Even after a 4% decline from 2018, the number of deaths due to police harm in 2019 – 1,099, according to Mapping Police Violence – was higher than in 2014.

In fact, people of color were more likely to be the victims of this harm in 2019 than they were in 2014. In 2019, 54% of those who died as a result of harm from police and whose race was identified were people of color – including Asian, Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander individuals – compared to 50% in 2014.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/202...e-of-color

And what is the corresponding rates of violent crimes by the deceased? Funny, that isnt mentioned. Not do you mention that now you are talking about deaths in all forms -- including the shitbird gang bangers toting their 9's in plain sight. Hmmmm.. Funny, last I saw being armed and being stopped by the police is a real ******* problem. I guess you dont see it that way.

Quote:But again, you’re focusing on a single data point of policing to try and suggest that the are not systemic issues (and a data point that isn’t even k early compelling). What about frequency of being pulled over by race? What about drug arrests by race? Let’s look at the entire body of work and evaluate if we see disparities broken down along racial lines.

Why solely drug arrests? WHy not violent crime? I mean, the african american community is convicted of violent crime at rate that make any others look like a bunch of pikers. Ahh, lets gloss over that.

Quote:

Quote: African Americans are arrested for violating marijuana possession laws at nearly four times the rates of whites, yet both ethnicities consume marijuana at roughly the same rates.

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/...#gsc.tab=0

Funny, again, had you bothered to fing read, I had already noted that there is a disparity in enforcement in low level misdemeanors and the such.

But now you use an incidence of detentions for low level crimes as a proxy substitute for the 'systemic problem' worthy of being rioted upon. Good fing god that is massive stretch -- in more than one sense mind you. Interesting, when the canard of 'police hunting african americans for sport and ***** and grins at epidemic rates' falls apart like a crappy 30 dollar suit, the tact is now seemingly pick up and build the ramparts of 'HORRENDOUS DISCRIMINATION' about Firebase Roust Em on Pot Charges. (head slap emoji)

Your loyalty to your theology is commendable there, lad.

1/4 the number of dog attack deaths.

Isnt the following urging of the NY Times one of the marks of a cult?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/opini...tests.html

(06-07-2020 12:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Isnt the following urging of the NY Times one of the marks of a cult?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/opini...tests.html

Just about anything in the NYT or WashPo is cult-like.

Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

Egad.

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

I think there is racism in this country that has yet to be eradicated. Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a problem in the US but it isn't any more. I disagree with that sentiment.

I understand it when POC in America say that they feel oppressed in some manner.

I stand for the flag and the national anthem but I don't think less of those that take that moment to draw attention to their cause. I don't think kneeling "disrespects" our country. How many people in America were thinking about they way that the police treat black people before Kaepernick started kneeling?