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RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - uchoops - 01-19-2023 08:56 AM
(01-19-2023 08:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:(01-18-2023 10:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(01-18-2023 09:35 PM)Lush Wrote: it's been fun tracking the progression of uconn's precipitous decline. the rivalry was fun and it made sense why they left but his isn't the old big east they're going back to, which outside of providence and marquette that conference is all kinds of gross. get marquette back on the schedule coach
"Precipitous Decline"
Huh.
UConn went to a Bowl Game for the first time in recent memory.
The Big East is a superior conference by any measure than the AACk!
The men's BB team has been ranked as high as #2 this season.
Most programs could only hope to suffer such a "precipitous decline."
ya, I don't get the trashing BE either. That conference is pretty solid
NET Rankings
7 7 UConn Big East 15-5 2-4 3-0 10-1 4-4 3-0 2-1 6-0
18 19 Marquette Big East 15-5 3-3 1-1 11-1 3-3 4-2 2-0 6-0
20 21 Creighton Big East 11-8 1-4 2-3 8-1 1-6 4-1 3-1 3-0
22 17 Xavier Big East 15-4 4-1 1-2 10-1 4-2 5-1 0-1 6-0
38 36 Providence Big East 14-5 4-3 0-2 10-0 3-4 1-1 3-0 7-0
61 65 Seton Hall Big East 11-8 3-4 1-2 7-2 3-4 0-3 3-1 5-0
78 78 St. John's (NY) Big East 13-6 1-4 3-0 9-2 1-5 0-1 5-0 7-0
87 86 Butler Big East 11-9 2-4 1-2 8-3 1-7 1-2 3-0 6-0
101 101 Villanova Big East 9-10 2-5 1-3 6-2 0-5 1-2 2-3 6-0
155 167 DePaul Big East 9-10 2-5 0-2 7-3 1-3 0-7 3-0 5-0
250 251 Georgetown Big East 5-14 0-6 1-1 4-7 0-4 0-5 1-3 4-2
Just looking at Providence…ranked 22nd…but who have they beat outside the Big East..no one good…they lost to St Louis and really have no good out of conference wins…yet because of the perception of the Big East they are ranked 22nd..
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - bearcatmark - 01-19-2023 09:02 AM
(01-19-2023 08:49 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:(01-19-2023 07:54 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:(01-19-2023 06:33 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: Eggzavier lost at DePaul 73-72.
Time for their annual collapse
Different coach. Doubt if that happens this year.
To be clear, I don't think it will be nearly as drastic this year (Competent coach > incompetent coach), but I expect them to lose some games down the stretch. One of their huge advantages this year is they have an insanely experienced team. 5 of their top 6 players are seniors, a couple of those are super seniors. Their other top 6 guy is a junior. Those kind of teams are ahead early in the year, but also are closer to maximizing what they can be. Teams will start catching up, and figuring out how to guard them a little better. And that Xavier team doesn't defend, and why would it get better? Those seniors are what they are at this point.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - OKIcat - 01-19-2023 09:03 AM
(01-19-2023 07:54 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:(01-19-2023 06:33 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: Eggzavier lost at DePaul 73-72.
Time for their annual collapse
Bring it on.
Seriously though, it will be curious which team becomes the new alpha dog in that conference. I'll suggest Marquette and UCONN are logical choices and that's not to say either are poised to reach the heights that Jay Wright's recent Villanova teams did. The new BE is competitive but outside of Villanova hasn't shown much in March Madness.
Looking in the rearview mirror now (thankfully) AAC basketball was a major disappointment competitively. That's funny to say about a newly formed conference that produced a national champion (UCONN) at birth and a Final Four team (Houston) two years ago. But the bottom of this conference started out dreadful in basketball and made little progress.
Next season's Bearcats will go to war every night in conference games. But they'll also continue to get better talent playing in the Big 12 spotlight.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - bearcatmark - 01-19-2023 09:08 AM
The disappointing thing about the AAC as a basketball conference is that it should have been much better. SMU/Houston had some damn good teams, which wasn't necessarily expected when the conference was formed. The Bearcats under Mick were good every year (and great once). The biggest issue was when the League really could have been strong Uconn, Memphis, and Temple were all not very good. If those programs were what they can be, the League could have really taken off.
Then in recent years, Memphis has come back, but UC has fallen off, UConn left, and Wichita (who was a great program under Marshall) fired their coach and hasn't recovered.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - RealDeal - 01-19-2023 09:34 AM
(01-19-2023 09:03 AM)OKIcat Wrote: Seriously though, it will be curious which team becomes the new alpha dog in that conference. I'll suggest Marquette and UCONN are logical choices and that's not to say either are poised to reach the heights that Jay Wright's recent Villanova teams did. The new BE is competitive but outside of Villanova hasn't shown much in March Madness.
What Jay Wright did dramatically changed where the perception of that conference would have been otherwise. It's a little different with UCONN joining but it's essentially a more high profile A10 with a bunch of small private schools; and they get paid well by FS1 but they also lose exposure by having no ESPN presence. If UCONN doesn't take that mantle I think you see a significant decline in perception in the next couple years. Heck Xavier is one of the best programs in that conference and their exposure even locally is a fraction on ours despite them being ranked and us rebuilding.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - BcatMatt13 - 01-19-2023 10:24 AM
(01-19-2023 09:34 AM)RealDeal Wrote:(01-19-2023 09:03 AM)OKIcat Wrote: Seriously though, it will be curious which team becomes the new alpha dog in that conference. I'll suggest Marquette and UCONN are logical choices and that's not to say either are poised to reach the heights that Jay Wright's recent Villanova teams did. The new BE is competitive but outside of Villanova hasn't shown much in March Madness.
What Jay Wright did dramatically changed where the perception of that conference would have been otherwise. It's a little different with UCONN joining but it's essentially a more high profile A10 with a bunch of small private schools; and they get paid well by FS1 but they also lose exposure by having no ESPN presence. If UCONN doesn't take that mantle I think you see a significant decline in perception in the next couple years. Heck Xavier is one of the best programs in that conference and their exposure even locally is a fraction on ours despite them being ranked and us rebuilding.
FOX going all in on the Big Ten and picking up a significant amount of Big 12 basketball inventory moving forward puts the Big East in a little bit of a pickle. Whether they stay with fox or go back to ESPN in their next deal they are going to play third or fourth fiddle either way. Behind Big Ten and Big 12 with Fox and behind ACC, SEC, Big 12 with ESPN.
FOX paid the Big East pretty well last TV deal because it needed basketball inventory. It doesn’t anymore. Can’t see them getting much of a $$$ upgrade. Will be interesting.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - BearcatMan - 01-19-2023 10:26 AM
(01-19-2023 08:56 AM)uchoops Wrote:(01-19-2023 08:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:(01-18-2023 10:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(01-18-2023 09:35 PM)Lush Wrote: it's been fun tracking the progression of uconn's precipitous decline. the rivalry was fun and it made sense why they left but his isn't the old big east they're going back to, which outside of providence and marquette that conference is all kinds of gross. get marquette back on the schedule coach
"Precipitous Decline"
Huh.
UConn went to a Bowl Game for the first time in recent memory.
The Big East is a superior conference by any measure than the AACk!
The men's BB team has been ranked as high as #2 this season.
Most programs could only hope to suffer such a "precipitous decline."
ya, I don't get the trashing BE either. That conference is pretty solid
NET Rankings
7 7 UConn Big East 15-5 2-4 3-0 10-1 4-4 3-0 2-1 6-0
18 19 Marquette Big East 15-5 3-3 1-1 11-1 3-3 4-2 2-0 6-0
20 21 Creighton Big East 11-8 1-4 2-3 8-1 1-6 4-1 3-1 3-0
22 17 Xavier Big East 15-4 4-1 1-2 10-1 4-2 5-1 0-1 6-0
38 36 Providence Big East 14-5 4-3 0-2 10-0 3-4 1-1 3-0 7-0
61 65 Seton Hall Big East 11-8 3-4 1-2 7-2 3-4 0-3 3-1 5-0
78 78 St. John's (NY) Big East 13-6 1-4 3-0 9-2 1-5 0-1 5-0 7-0
87 86 Butler Big East 11-9 2-4 1-2 8-3 1-7 1-2 3-0 6-0
101 101 Villanova Big East 9-10 2-5 1-3 6-2 0-5 1-2 2-3 6-0
155 167 DePaul Big East 9-10 2-5 0-2 7-3 1-3 0-7 3-0 5-0
250 251 Georgetown Big East 5-14 0-6 1-1 4-7 0-4 0-5 1-3 4-2
Just looking at Providence…ranked 22nd…but who have they beat outside the Big East..no one good…they lost to St Louis and really have no good out of conference wins…yet because of the perception of the Big East they are ranked 22nd..
I mean, many of us have been talking about how the NET Rankings manipulate things to always have "power" conference teams in the Top 100 regardless of how good they actually are for years...it's not rocket science, they have a metric that has no explanation that essentially just allows them to call whoever they want a "good" team and keep power conference teams in the upper quadrants to float everyone.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - BcatMatt13 - 01-19-2023 11:10 AM
(01-19-2023 09:03 AM)OKIcat Wrote:(01-19-2023 07:54 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:(01-19-2023 06:33 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: Eggzavier lost at DePaul 73-72.
Time for their annual collapse
Bring it on.
Seriously though, it will be curious which team becomes the new alpha dog in that conference. I'll suggest Marquette and UCONN are logical choices and that's not to say either are poised to reach the heights that Jay Wright's recent Villanova teams did. The new BE is competitive but outside of Villanova hasn't shown much in March Madness.
Looking in the rearview mirror now (thankfully) AAC basketball was a major disappointment competitively. That's funny to say about a newly formed conference that produced a national champion (UCONN) at birth and a Final Four team (Houston) two years ago. But the bottom of this conference started out dreadful in basketball and made little progress.
Next season's Bearcats will go to war every night in conference games. But they'll also continue to get better talent playing in the Big 12 spotlight.
Xavier made a run to the Elite Eight as an 11 seed 5 or 6 years ago. Outside of that and Jay Wright lead Villanova teams not a single team has advanced past the Sweet Sixteen.
Marquette has not won an NCAA Tournament game as a member of this current Big East. Neither has UConn (only 2 years). Creighton has made it to the Sweet Sixteen once by beating a 12 seed and a 13 seed. Providence has made a Sweet Sixteen once and it was also by beating a 12 and 13 seed. Butler has made one Sweet Sixteen once and guess what? They beat a 12 and a 13 seed. Seton Hall and Georgetown have won one tournament game. St. John’s hasn’t won a tournament game. DePaul hasn’t made the tournament since the CUSA days. In addition to Xavier’s Elite Eight run they also made a Sweet Sixteen. And they beat an 11 seed and a 14 seed to get there.
Outside of Villanova and the one Xavier run, the rest of the schools haven’t beat a single digit seed in route to a Sweet Sixteen. That’s 34 tournament bids (not counting Villanova) and only 5 trips to the Sweet Sixteen, 4 of which were aided by a double digit seed upset.
It’s been Villanova and smoke and mirrors.
Now obviously UC hasn’t been to a Sweet Sixteen in that time frame either so I’m not trying to rag on these programs or anything but the league outside of Villanova really hasn’t done much of anything in March.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - OKIcat - 01-19-2023 12:27 PM
(01-19-2023 11:10 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:(01-19-2023 09:03 AM)OKIcat Wrote:(01-19-2023 07:54 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:(01-19-2023 06:33 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: Eggzavier lost at DePaul 73-72.
Time for their annual collapse
Bring it on.
Seriously though, it will be curious which team becomes the new alpha dog in that conference. I'll suggest Marquette and UCONN are logical choices and that's not to say either are poised to reach the heights that Jay Wright's recent Villanova teams did. The new BE is competitive but outside of Villanova hasn't shown much in March Madness.
Looking in the rearview mirror now (thankfully) AAC basketball was a major disappointment competitively. That's funny to say about a newly formed conference that produced a national champion (UCONN) at birth and a Final Four team (Houston) two years ago. But the bottom of this conference started out dreadful in basketball and made little progress.
Next season's Bearcats will go to war every night in conference games. But they'll also continue to get better talent playing in the Big 12 spotlight.
Xavier made a run to the Elite Eight as an 11 seed 5 or 6 years ago. Outside of that and Jay Wright lead Villanova teams not a single team has advanced past the Sweet Sixteen.
Marquette has not won an NCAA Tournament game as a member of this current Big East. Neither has UConn (only 2 years). Creighton has made it to the Sweet Sixteen once by beating a 12 seed and a 13 seed. Providence has made a Sweet Sixteen once and it was also by beating a 12 and 13 seed. Butler has made one Sweet Sixteen once and guess what? They beat a 12 and a 13 seed. Seton Hall and Georgetown have won one tournament game. St. John’s hasn’t won a tournament game. DePaul hasn’t made the tournament since the CUSA days. In addition to Xavier’s Elite Eight run they also made a Sweet Sixteen. And they beat an 11 seed and a 14 seed to get there.
Outside of Villanova and the one Xavier run, the rest of the schools haven’t beat a single digit seed in route to a Sweet Sixteen. That’s 34 tournament bids (not counting Villanova) and only 5 trips to the Sweet Sixteen, 4 of which were aided by a double digit seed upset.
It’s been Villanova and smoke and mirrors.
Now obviously UC hasn’t been to a Sweet Sixteen in that time frame either so I’m not trying to rag on these programs or anything but the league outside of Villanova really hasn’t done much of anything in March.
Great NCAA Tournament analysis, by the numbers.
I doubt that Fox will be so generous (adjusted for inflation of course) with its next bid for Big East basketball.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - UCGrad1992 - 01-19-2023 09:14 PM
After a mostly close game until late, Memphis takes care of business against WSU. Once again, UC is presented with an opportunity for a quality win at home on Sunday after Memphis improves to 14-5 [4-2] and a 40ish NET.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - Bear Catlett - 01-19-2023 10:43 PM
Trace Jackson-Davis looks like godzilla in tokyo tonight v. Illinois.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - UCGrad1992 - 01-19-2023 11:32 PM
I admit I have not watched one game of the College of Charleston but with their win tonight they are now 20-1 [8-0]. They play in the Colonial Athletic conference so that may be a mark against them but wow - they are kicking arse right now. They do have a 40ish NET...
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - geef - 01-19-2023 11:46 PM
(01-19-2023 11:32 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: I admit I have not watched one game of the College of Charleston but with their win tonight they are now 20-1 [8-0]. They play in the Colonial Athletic conference so that may be a mark against them but wow - they are kicking arse right now. They do have a 40ish NET...
Crazy to see those guys and FAU really light it up this year.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - geef - 01-19-2023 11:49 PM
Watching ASU - UCLA. Dude from ASU just nailed a 55 footer at the first half buzzer. The crowd is into it like this is the game of the decade. That reflects more on Mick, who has rebuilt UCLA into the must-see opponent in the PAC.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - UCGrad1992 - 01-19-2023 11:59 PM
(01-19-2023 11:46 PM)geef Wrote:(01-19-2023 11:32 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: I admit I have not watched one game of the College of Charleston but with their win tonight they are now 20-1 [8-0]. They play in the Colonial Athletic conference so that may be a mark against them but wow - they are kicking arse right now. They do have a 40ish NET...
Crazy to see those guys and FAU really light it up this year.
Cinderellas baby!
![[Image: 20150117_JF1_2092-scaled-e1634578116532.jpg]](https://www.espnfrontrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/20150117_JF1_2092-scaled-e1634578116532.jpg)
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - Lush - 01-20-2023 12:09 AM
the big east is still gross
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - OKIcat - 01-20-2023 10:12 AM
(01-19-2023 09:14 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: After a mostly close game until late, Memphis takes care of business against WSU. Once again, UC is presented with an opportunity for a quality win at home on Sunday after Memphis improves to 14-5 [4-2] and a 40ish NET.
Bolded, probably the most reasonable opportunity remaining this regular season to upset an AAC team with a pulse. I really believe it's the Bearcats turn to win. Granted, progress for this current UC team has often been slow and certainly not always linear. But this is one UC really needs to win to build some momentum for a respectable finish. I'm optimistic about Sunday. Maybe more about UC's chances than the Bengals'.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - bcat1997 - 01-20-2023 04:18 PM
(01-19-2023 10:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:(01-19-2023 08:56 AM)uchoops Wrote:(01-19-2023 08:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:(01-18-2023 10:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(01-18-2023 09:35 PM)Lush Wrote: it's been fun tracking the progression of uconn's precipitous decline. the rivalry was fun and it made sense why they left but his isn't the old big east they're going back to, which outside of providence and marquette that conference is all kinds of gross. get marquette back on the schedule coach
"Precipitous Decline"
Huh.
UConn went to a Bowl Game for the first time in recent memory.
The Big East is a superior conference by any measure than the AACk!
The men's BB team has been ranked as high as #2 this season.
Most programs could only hope to suffer such a "precipitous decline."
ya, I don't get the trashing BE either. That conference is pretty solid
NET Rankings
7 7 UConn Big East 15-5 2-4 3-0 10-1 4-4 3-0 2-1 6-0
18 19 Marquette Big East 15-5 3-3 1-1 11-1 3-3 4-2 2-0 6-0
20 21 Creighton Big East 11-8 1-4 2-3 8-1 1-6 4-1 3-1 3-0
22 17 Xavier Big East 15-4 4-1 1-2 10-1 4-2 5-1 0-1 6-0
38 36 Providence Big East 14-5 4-3 0-2 10-0 3-4 1-1 3-0 7-0
61 65 Seton Hall Big East 11-8 3-4 1-2 7-2 3-4 0-3 3-1 5-0
78 78 St. John's (NY) Big East 13-6 1-4 3-0 9-2 1-5 0-1 5-0 7-0
87 86 Butler Big East 11-9 2-4 1-2 8-3 1-7 1-2 3-0 6-0
101 101 Villanova Big East 9-10 2-5 1-3 6-2 0-5 1-2 2-3 6-0
155 167 DePaul Big East 9-10 2-5 0-2 7-3 1-3 0-7 3-0 5-0
250 251 Georgetown Big East 5-14 0-6 1-1 4-7 0-4 0-5 1-3 4-2
Just looking at Providence…ranked 22nd…but who have they beat outside the Big East..no one good…they lost to St Louis and really have no good out of conference wins…yet because of the perception of the Big East they are ranked 22nd..
I mean, many of us have been talking about how the NET Rankings manipulate things to always have "power" conference teams in the Top 100 regardless of how good they actually are for years...it's not rocket science, they have a metric that has no explanation that essentially just allows them to call whoever they want a "good" team and keep power conference teams in the upper quadrants to float everyone.
Nah, their Kenpom rankings are even higher than NET above. BE basketball is strong.
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - uchoops - 01-20-2023 04:27 PM
(01-20-2023 04:18 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:(01-19-2023 10:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:(01-19-2023 08:56 AM)uchoops Wrote:(01-19-2023 08:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:(01-18-2023 10:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: "Precipitous Decline"
Huh.
UConn went to a Bowl Game for the first time in recent memory.
The Big East is a superior conference by any measure than the AACk!
The men's BB team has been ranked as high as #2 this season.
Most programs could only hope to suffer such a "precipitous decline."
ya, I don't get the trashing BE either. That conference is pretty solid
NET Rankings
7 7 UConn Big East 15-5 2-4 3-0 10-1 4-4 3-0 2-1 6-0
18 19 Marquette Big East 15-5 3-3 1-1 11-1 3-3 4-2 2-0 6-0
20 21 Creighton Big East 11-8 1-4 2-3 8-1 1-6 4-1 3-1 3-0
22 17 Xavier Big East 15-4 4-1 1-2 10-1 4-2 5-1 0-1 6-0
38 36 Providence Big East 14-5 4-3 0-2 10-0 3-4 1-1 3-0 7-0
61 65 Seton Hall Big East 11-8 3-4 1-2 7-2 3-4 0-3 3-1 5-0
78 78 St. John's (NY) Big East 13-6 1-4 3-0 9-2 1-5 0-1 5-0 7-0
87 86 Butler Big East 11-9 2-4 1-2 8-3 1-7 1-2 3-0 6-0
101 101 Villanova Big East 9-10 2-5 1-3 6-2 0-5 1-2 2-3 6-0
155 167 DePaul Big East 9-10 2-5 0-2 7-3 1-3 0-7 3-0 5-0
250 251 Georgetown Big East 5-14 0-6 1-1 4-7 0-4 0-5 1-3 4-2
Just looking at Providence…ranked 22nd…but who have they beat outside the Big East..no one good…they lost to St Louis and really have no good out of conference wins…yet because of the perception of the Big East they are ranked 22nd..
I mean, many of us have been talking about how the NET Rankings manipulate things to always have "power" conference teams in the Top 100 regardless of how good they actually are for years...it's not rocket science, they have a metric that has no explanation that essentially just allows them to call whoever they want a "good" team and keep power conference teams in the upper quadrants to float everyone.
Nah, their Kenpom rankings are even higher than NET above. BE basketball is strong.
Overrated conference…Villanova got them notice and now they suck…but perception that they are a good conference is still there
RE: 2022-23 College Basketball General Thread - OKIcat - 01-20-2023 04:42 PM
The "new" Big East got a good initial TV deal from Fox because of the brand name. Any renewal will be based upon the reality of ratings. And viewership has to be disappointing. With Villanova's fall from the top since Wright's retirement, I wouldn't be surprised if the slide in reputation continues.
Competitively, there is pretty good balance and it's often good basketball. But replacing past national champs Syracuse and Louisville along with Notre Dame, Pitt, West Virginia, and Cincy was hardly accomplished by adding small private schools Creighton, X, and Butler. That's a far cry from the previous version when it comes to national visibility, profile, and prestige. It would appear the Big East is heading toward looking much more like the A10 than the B10, B12, or ACC.