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+---- Thread: Howard to CAA in 23-24? (/thread-946298.html)
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - DoubleRSU - 04-19-2022 02:24 PM
(04-19-2022 01:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The reality is, once Howard announces you will see every remaining MEAC school scrambling for life boats. I predict at a minimum three (3) more will announce new homes in 2023 by this fall.
Oh? Which 3 and where are they headed?
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - solohawks - 04-19-2022 02:45 PM
(04-19-2022 02:24 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(04-19-2022 01:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The reality is, once Howard announces you will see every remaining MEAC school scrambling for life boats. I predict at a minimum three (3) more will announce new homes in 2023 by this fall.
Oh? Which 3 and where are they headed?
Norfolk, Central, and SC State to the Big South makes a lot of sense for all parties if Howard leaves the MEAC
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Cyniclone - 04-19-2022 02:57 PM
(04-19-2022 02:23 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: They could have everyone launch a men’s volleyball program. There are quite a number of D2 schools in the SE that sponsor the sport for men. There is no D2 championship in the NCAA so they are all competing on the D1 level.
Just a thought for a way to get into compliance by sponsoring a sport that wouldn’t be that expensive to start.
But what the MEAC needs are full members that offer that sport. Affiliates help them get a tournament autobid but don’t help them reach compliance as a Division 1 conference. So they’d need some combination of existing members starting programs and new members with new or existing programs to get them there.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - AssKickingChicken - 04-19-2022 03:27 PM
(04-19-2022 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:23 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: They could have everyone launch a men’s volleyball program. There are quite a number of D2 schools in the SE that sponsor the sport for men. There is no D2 championship in the NCAA so they are all competing on the D1 level.
Just a thought for a way to get into compliance by sponsoring a sport that wouldn’t be that expensive to start.
But what the MEAC needs are full members that offer that sport. Affiliates help them get a tournament autobid but don’t help them reach compliance as a Division 1 conference. So they’d need some combination of existing members starting programs and new members with new or existing programs to get them there.
Which is why I said they should get their membership to sponsor the sport. I referenced other schools in the area to show they’d have OOC opportunities.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - TDenverFan - 04-19-2022 03:36 PM
(04-19-2022 02:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:24 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(04-19-2022 01:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The reality is, once Howard announces you will see every remaining MEAC school scrambling for life boats. I predict at a minimum three (3) more will announce new homes in 2023 by this fall.
Oh? Which 3 and where are they headed?
Norfolk, Central, and SC State to the Big South makes a lot of sense for all parties if Howard leaves the MEAC
I think any of the football schools will be able to find homes, since several conferences are flirting with the FCS minimum.
The southern 3 you mentioned are especially well positioned, since they could potentially get interest from a few different conferences, but I could also see the NEC wanting Delaware State/Morgan State.
Coppin/UMES are in a worse spot, I don't really know what conferences would be interested in them.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - solohawks - 04-19-2022 03:50 PM
(04-19-2022 03:36 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:24 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(04-19-2022 01:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The reality is, once Howard announces you will see every remaining MEAC school scrambling for life boats. I predict at a minimum three (3) more will announce new homes in 2023 by this fall.
Oh? Which 3 and where are they headed?
Norfolk, Central, and SC State to the Big South makes a lot of sense for all parties if Howard leaves the MEAC
I think any of the football schools will be able to find homes, since several conferences are flirting with the FCS minimum.
The southern 3 you mentioned are especially well positioned, since they could potentially get interest from a few different conferences, but I could also see the NEC wanting Delaware State/Morgan State.
Coppin/UMES are in a worse spot, I don't really know what conferences would be interested in them.
If the MAAC or AEast takes an NEC school with football, Delaware State and Morgan State would help keep that current 8 team league afloat and stable
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Fresno St. Alum - 04-19-2022 04:01 PM
(04-19-2022 03:36 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:Coppin St., UMES and Chicago St. form the newest version of the Great West conf. lol. CIAA can take the MEAC schools(04-19-2022 02:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:24 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(04-19-2022 01:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The reality is, once Howard announces you will see every remaining MEAC school scrambling for life boats. I predict at a minimum three (3) more will announce new homes in 2023 by this fall.
Oh? Which 3 and where are they headed?
Norfolk, Central, and SC State to the Big South makes a lot of sense for all parties if Howard leaves the MEAC
I think any of the football schools will be able to find homes, since several conferences are flirting with the FCS minimum.
The southern 3 you mentioned are especially well positioned, since they could potentially get interest from a few different conferences, but I could also see the NEC wanting Delaware State/Morgan State.
Coppin/UMES are in a worse spot, I don't really know what conferences would be interested in them.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - DFW HOYA - 04-19-2022 04:05 PM
(04-19-2022 03:36 PM)TDenverFan Wrote: Coppin/UMES are in a worse spot, I don't really know what conferences would be interested in them.
Coppin State:
Enrollment: 1,606 (23% M, 77% F)
Total Expenses, Men's Basketball: $619,158
Total Athletic Budget: $3,570,833
University of Maryland Eastern Shore:
Enrollment: 2,648 (42% M, 58% F)
Total Expenses, Men's Basketball: Not Reported
Total Athletic Budget: $5,305,668
And by comparison...
Chicago State University:
Enrollment: 1,086 (29% M, 71% F)
Total Expenses, Men's Basketball: $627,395
Total Athletic Budget: $6,300,074
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Cyniclone - 04-19-2022 04:24 PM
(04-19-2022 03:27 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:23 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: They could have everyone launch a men’s volleyball program. There are quite a number of D2 schools in the SE that sponsor the sport for men. There is no D2 championship in the NCAA so they are all competing on the D1 level.
Just a thought for a way to get into compliance by sponsoring a sport that wouldn’t be that expensive to start.
But what the MEAC needs are full members that offer that sport. Affiliates help them get a tournament autobid but don’t help them reach compliance as a Division 1 conference. So they’d need some combination of existing members starting programs and new members with new or existing programs to get them there.
Which is why I said they should get their membership to sponsor the sport. I referenced other schools in the area to show they’d have OOC opportunities.
You could in theory but getting all but one of your seven remaining schools, with some of the lowest athletic budgets in Division 1, to start programs in a sport that has limited interest even by Olympic sport standards is a heavy lift. And since adding an accompanying women’s sport for Title IX purposes is probably not happening, they’d have to cut a men’s sport, of which there’s few options (only UMES and N.C. Central have men’s golf, and while everyone offers track and cross country, I doubt there’d be a lot of enthusiasm about cutting that). And then you STILL need two more baseball programs from your existing or new members.
Adding a school with football (or less likely, having Coppin or UMES start programs) is still the quickest route to compliance but it’s not easy at all.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - AssKickingChicken - 04-19-2022 04:28 PM
I agree it is highly unlikely they’d all start a men’s volleyball program. Just suggesting a way to get a men’s team sport.
Bottom line, if Howard leaves they are screwed.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Fighting Muskie - 04-19-2022 04:45 PM
(04-19-2022 02:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:24 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(04-19-2022 01:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The reality is, once Howard announces you will see every remaining MEAC school scrambling for life boats. I predict at a minimum three (3) more will announce new homes in 2023 by this fall.
Oh? Which 3 and where are they headed?
Norfolk, Central, and SC State to the Big South makes a lot of sense for all parties if Howard leaves the MEAC
All 3 would put them at 13. My guess is they only take 2: Norfolk St and NC Central.
If I had to pick 2 that the NEC would want I’d say Delaware St and Morgan St.
The other 3 are probably going to have to go to the CIAA.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Inkblot - 04-19-2022 04:46 PM
A couple years ago a donor paid for half a dozen SIAC schools to start men's volleyball. I wouldn't say it's out of the question for that to happen to the MEAC.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Fighting Muskie - 04-19-2022 04:53 PM
If we get to a point where the MEAC only has 3-5 schools left, are they better off toughing it out as D1 independents or should they look for an HBCU D2 conference like the CIAA to take them?
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - The Cutter of Bish - 04-19-2022 05:21 PM
I don’t know if moving to CIAA helps the likes of the northern MEAC schools. When you have Bowie State and Lincoln, then bring in these otherwise smaller D1 schools like Coppin State, UMES, or even Delaware State…I don’t know if a high tide up north helps float all those boats there or if some further languish.
FWIW, I can see there being a line in the sand with Big South/ASun schools not wanting every possible MEAC school.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - AZcats - 04-19-2022 05:51 PM
(04-19-2022 04:46 PM)Inkblot Wrote: A couple years ago a donor paid for half a dozen SIAC schools to start men's volleyball. I wouldn't say it's out of the question for that to happen to the MEAC.
That was First Point Volleyball Foundation. They also provided a grant to Fairleigh Dickinson to start a men's team. Here is the SIAC release on their grant; six schools got $150,000 each and the conference got $100,000. https://thesiac.com/news/2019/8/30/general-first-point-volleyball-foundation-and-usa-volleyball-makes-a-1-million-investment-to-siac-member-institutions.aspx
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Nerdlinger - 04-19-2022 05:55 PM
(04-19-2022 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:23 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: They could have everyone launch a men’s volleyball program. There are quite a number of D2 schools in the SE that sponsor the sport for men. There is no D2 championship in the NCAA so they are all competing on the D1 level.
Just a thought for a way to get into compliance by sponsoring a sport that wouldn’t be that expensive to start.
But what the MEAC needs are full members that offer that sport. Affiliates help them get a tournament autobid but don’t help them reach compliance as a Division 1 conference. So they’d need some combination of existing members starting programs and new members with new or existing programs to get them there.
It doesn't matter if a member in a sport is an affiliate or not in terms of qualifying as a D1 multisport conference. It does matter for FBS conferences, which need 8 "full" FB-playing members, with "full" being defined through having X other sports in the conference. But otherwise, I don't know where that would matter.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Cyniclone - 04-19-2022 06:16 PM
(04-19-2022 05:55 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:23 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: They could have everyone launch a men’s volleyball program. There are quite a number of D2 schools in the SE that sponsor the sport for men. There is no D2 championship in the NCAA so they are all competing on the D1 level.
Just a thought for a way to get into compliance by sponsoring a sport that wouldn’t be that expensive to start.
But what the MEAC needs are full members that offer that sport. Affiliates help them get a tournament autobid but don’t help them reach compliance as a Division 1 conference. So they’d need some combination of existing members starting programs and new members with new or existing programs to get them there.
It doesn't matter if a member in a sport is an affiliate or not in terms of qualifying as a D1 multisport conference. It does matter for FBS conferences, which need 8 "full" FB-playing members, with "full" being defined through having X other sports in the conference. But otherwise, I don't know where that would matter.
Per the NCAA Division 1 manual:
Quote:20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)I don’t know if there’s any way to argue affiliates into the definition of “members” but they’re using it pretty consistently here and it certainly reads as full members based on the requirement of seven to qualify as a conference. So that brings us back to football or two men’s team sports, and Howard’s departure bringing the MEAC down to seven members (good albeit by the skin of their teeth), five football members (not good), four baseball members (really not good) and zero members playing any other men’s team sports (yikes)
20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Nerdlinger - 04-19-2022 06:20 PM
(04-19-2022 06:16 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(04-19-2022 05:55 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(04-19-2022 02:23 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: They could have everyone launch a men’s volleyball program. There are quite a number of D2 schools in the SE that sponsor the sport for men. There is no D2 championship in the NCAA so they are all competing on the D1 level.
Just a thought for a way to get into compliance by sponsoring a sport that wouldn’t be that expensive to start.
But what the MEAC needs are full members that offer that sport. Affiliates help them get a tournament autobid but don’t help them reach compliance as a Division 1 conference. So they’d need some combination of existing members starting programs and new members with new or existing programs to get them there.
It doesn't matter if a member in a sport is an affiliate or not in terms of qualifying as a D1 multisport conference. It does matter for FBS conferences, which need 8 "full" FB-playing members, with "full" being defined through having X other sports in the conference. But otherwise, I don't know where that would matter.
Per the NCAA Division 1 manual:
Quote:20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)I don’t know if there’s any way to argue affiliates into the definition of “members” but they’re using it pretty consistently here and it certainly reads as full members based on the requirement of seven to qualify as a conference. So that brings us back to football or two men’s team sports, and Howard’s departure bringing the MEAC down to seven members (good albeit by the son of their teeth), five football members (not good), four baseball members (really not good) and zero members playing any other men’s team sports (yikes)
20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).
I could be wrong, but I don't think they have to be the same members. I don't read that from the way it's written in any case.
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - Cyniclone - 04-19-2022 06:23 PM
(04-19-2022 05:51 PM)AZcats Wrote:(04-19-2022 04:46 PM)Inkblot Wrote: A couple years ago a donor paid for half a dozen SIAC schools to start men's volleyball. I wouldn't say it's out of the question for that to happen to the MEAC.
That was First Point Volleyball Foundation. They also provided a grant to Fairleigh Dickinson to start a men's team. Here is the SIAC release on their grant; six schools got $150,000 each and the conference got $100,000. https://thesiac.com/news/2019/8/30/general-first-point-volleyball-foundation-and-usa-volleyball-makes-a-1-million-investment-to-siac-member-institutions.aspx
Interesting. Wonder how much it would take to start six D1 men’s programs. Would think there would be someone out there, or multiple someones, willing to step up, especially since it would also be a “Save the MEAC” drive
RE: Howard to CAA in 23-24? - AssKickingChicken - 04-19-2022 06:33 PM
The main expense would be hiring a coach. If you make every match a doubleheader, the men and women could travel on the bus together.