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+---- Thread: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? (/thread-924899.html)
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - SMUstang - 07-20-2021 11:19 AM
(07-20-2021 11:05 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:(07-20-2021 10:08 AM)SMUstang Wrote:(07-20-2021 09:31 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:(07-20-2021 08:32 AM)SMUstang Wrote: Schools added to the AAC since 2011 include SMU, Houston, Memphis in 2013, Tulane, East Carolina, and Tulsa in 2014. That being said, Rice is where they should be given their athletic budget.
Except their budget is larger than Tulsa and Tulane.
I'm not going to argue, maybe the AAC was going for markets at that time. But why ECU?
If I recall, ECU was added first as a football-only affiliate, and then when the American under it's prior branding was raided again, it got an upgrade.
Perhaps they ran out of candidates that added the kinds of markets that they were looking for and were forced to look for schools that demonstrated an ability to get people to pay attention in the market they happened to be in.
In hindsight, it night have been better if ECU had remained "football only" and someone like VCU was added for all other sports. But the conference feared another "football vs basketball" split.
*** SMUstang ***
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - Attackcoog - 07-20-2021 11:51 AM
(07-20-2021 11:05 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:(07-20-2021 10:08 AM)SMUstang Wrote:(07-20-2021 09:31 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:(07-20-2021 08:32 AM)SMUstang Wrote: Schools added to the AAC since 2011 include SMU, Houston, Memphis in 2013, Tulane, East Carolina, and Tulsa in 2014. That being said, Rice is where they should be given their athletic budget.
Except their budget is larger than Tulsa and Tulane.
I'm not going to argue, maybe the AAC was going for markets at that time. But why ECU?
If I recall, ECU was added first as a football-only affiliate, and then when the American under it's prior branding was raided again, it got an upgrade.
Perhaps they ran out of candidates that added the kinds of markets that they were looking for and were forced to look for schools that demonstrated an ability to get people to pay attention in the market they happened to be in.
ECU had been doing pretty well at the time. They won CUSA just a few years earlier (2009) and had the largest attendance figures of any G5 east of the Rockies. That said--the FBS spring spewing well known big market G5 schools with at least some brand value was running pretty dry by that point.
When Boise and SDSU pulled out of the Big East western expansion, it pretty much eliminated the western half of the nation from the selection board---leaving the 2013 Big East/AAC in a space where there were no longer any perfect expansion options left on the board. The last "all sports" school the AAC added was Tulsa----a tiny private school who had just won CUSA at the time and had been a fairly consistent solid team in the CUSA western division. Tulsa also provided good academic and a solid basketball program that earned NCAA bid's fairly consistently in the 1990's and early 2000's.
The current AAC expansion situation is very similar to 2013---but with somewhat less motivation to replace the lost member. If Rice had been a football powerhouse in CUSA West for the last 6 years and was coming off a CUSA championship---with a reputation for having solid basketball---they might already be the 12th member of the AAC (despite being yet another small private school and increasing the "CUSA 2011" perception to the AAC).
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - SMUstang - 07-20-2021 02:49 PM
(07-20-2021 10:08 AM)SMUstang Wrote:(07-20-2021 09:31 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:(07-20-2021 08:32 AM)SMUstang Wrote: Schools added to the AAC since 2011 include SMU, Houston, Memphis in 2013, Tulane, East Carolina, and Tulsa in 2014. That being said, Rice is where they should be given their athletic budget.
Except their budget is larger than Tulsa and Tulane.
I'm not going to argue, maybe the AAC was going for markets at that time. But why ECU?
*** SMUstang ***
2019 estimates of market size:
New Orleans - 1,270,530
Tulsa - 998,626
Greenville, NC - 180,742
It may be time to jettison ECU for cause:
https://247sports.com/college/east-carolina/Article/Jeff-Compher-buyout-ECU-Financial-Crisis-COVID-19-147315734/
*** SMUstang ***
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - SoCalBobcat78 - 07-20-2021 04:25 PM
(07-20-2021 11:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: The current AAC expansion situation is very similar to 2013---but with somewhat less motivation to replace the lost member. If Rice had been a football powerhouse in CUSA West for the last 6 years and was coming off a CUSA championship---with a reputation for having solid basketball---they might already be the 12th member of the AAC (despite being yet another small private school and increasing the "CUSA 2011" perception to the AAC).Haha. When has that ever happened at Rice. Rice is a great academic institution that is fortunate to be in CUSA. This is from an article in the LA Times in 1987:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-03-18-sp-7754-story.html
"Of the eight SWC schools in Texas, seven have basketball or football programs either on probation or under NCAA investigation. Southern Methodist University is in such deep cow do that the Southern Methodists might convert the campus into a mall. Or a real university."
"That leaves the University of Arkansas, which isn’t in Texas. And Rice. Tiny Rice University, near downtown Houston. It’s the smallest university--2,600 undergrads--anywhere trying to play major college football, and trying to do it legally. Athletically speaking, this is the Littlest Big Non-whorehouse in Texas."
"They’ve been playing football here since 1912 and they’re still looking for their first NCAA investigation. They’re also looking for their first winning football season since 1963, and first winning basketball season since 1970."
Not much has changed since 1987. They have had winning seasons in basketball since 1987, but they have not made the NCAA basketball tournament since 1970. Football has not been ranked in the AP Top 25 since 1961. As the LA Times article of 1987 jokingly added at the end of the article, "If there’s any justice, you would think the cheating at the other SWC schools over the years would take its toll on the psyche, would gradually suck the spiritual sap right out of them, and maybe Rice would win a few games. Then they would be known throughout Texas as the proud Fighting Owls again, and not the Rice Puddings." Not much has changed with Rice football or basketball and they were never worthy of the AAC.
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - Attackcoog - 07-20-2021 05:14 PM
(07-20-2021 04:25 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:(07-20-2021 11:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: The current AAC expansion situation is very similar to 2013---but with somewhat less motivation to replace the lost member. If Rice had been a football powerhouse in CUSA West for the last 6 years and was coming off a CUSA championship---with a reputation for having solid basketball---they might already be the 12th member of the AAC (despite being yet another small private school and increasing the "CUSA 2011" perception to the AAC).Haha. When has that ever happened at Rice. Rice is a great academic institution that is fortunate to be in CUSA. This is from an article in the LA Times in 1987:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-03-18-sp-7754-story.html
"Of the eight SWC schools in Texas, seven have basketball or football programs either on probation or under NCAA investigation. Southern Methodist University is in such deep cow do that the Southern Methodists might convert the campus into a mall. Or a real university."
"That leaves the University of Arkansas, which isn’t in Texas. And Rice. Tiny Rice University, near downtown Houston. It’s the smallest university--2,600 undergrads--anywhere trying to play major college football, and trying to do it legally. Athletically speaking, this is the Littlest Big Non-whorehouse in Texas."
"They’ve been playing football here since 1912 and they’re still looking for their first NCAA investigation. They’re also looking for their first winning football season since 1963, and first winning basketball season since 1970."
Not much has changed since 1987. They have had winning seasons in basketball since 1987, but they have not made the NCAA basketball tournament since 1970. Football has not been ranked in the AP Top 25 since 1961. As the LA Times article of 1987 jokingly added at the end of the article, "If there’s any justice, you would think the cheating at the other SWC schools over the years would take its toll on the psyche, would gradually suck the spiritual sap right out of them, and maybe Rice would win a few games. Then they would be known throughout Texas as the proud Fighting Owls again, and not the Rice Puddings." Not much has changed with Rice football or basketball and they were never worthy of the AAC.
I dont think we really disagree. I'm simply explaining why a conference that took Tulsa the last time they needed a 12th member has no interest in Rice. IF Rice had a 6 year run of quality football, was coming off a CUSA football championship, and had a decades long reputation for solid basketball teams that often earned a NCAA bid---I think Rice probably would have already been offered UConn's slot. Of course---none of those conditions have been met---thus---there's not much AAC interest in Rice at this time.
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - DFW HOYA - 07-20-2021 05:23 PM
(07-20-2021 04:25 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: "That leaves the University of Arkansas, which isn’t in Texas. And Rice. Tiny Rice University, near downtown Houston. It’s the smallest university--2,600 undergrads--anywhere trying to play major college football, and trying to do it legally. Athletically speaking, this is the Littlest Big Non-whorehouse in Texas."
"They’ve been playing football here since 1912 and they’re still looking for their first NCAA investigation. They’re also looking for their first winning football season since 1963, and first winning basketball season since 1970."
Not much has changed since 1987. They have had winning seasons in basketball since 1987, but they have not made the NCAA basketball tournament since 1970. Football has not been ranked in the AP Top 25 since 1961. As the LA Times article of 1987 jokingly added at the end of the article, "If there’s any justice, you would think the cheating at the other SWC schools over the years would take its toll on the psyche, would gradually suck the spiritual sap right out of them, and maybe Rice would win a few games. Then they would be known throughout Texas as the proud Fighting Owls again, and not the Rice Puddings." Not much has changed with Rice football or basketball and they were never worthy of the AAC.
2020 Enrollment: 4,052 undergraduates, 7,536 total.
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - Side.Show.Joe - 07-20-2021 06:38 PM
Does anyone even know who owns the rights to the SWC name and logo?
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - dbackjon - 07-20-2021 07:05 PM
(07-20-2021 06:38 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: Does anyone even know who owns the rights to the SWC name and logo?
No one - trademarks expired.
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - Attackcoog - 07-20-2021 07:49 PM
There is a Reddit thread on the subject and they came to the same conclusion that the trademark expired in 2006. lol---In reading through the thread----I found the below post. I was at the very last SWC game played (it was between Houston and Rice) and I have to admit---I dont remember a thing about the Owls halftime show that day---but what is described below sounds completely in character for the often biting humor the MOB would form a halftime performance around.
Of the former SWC schools, only Houston was involved in the creation of CUSA. We were charter members (though not involved in the first season of play as the SWC had a year before it dissolved--the writing was on the wall well before thee conference collapsed).
SMU, TCU, and Rice went to the WAC (which had football at the time). And Arkansas obviously went to the SEC.
And now, for a bit of self-burn trivia (perhaps to preempt Owlcatraz's inevitable recollection):
At the last Bayou Bucket held under the auspices of the Southwest Conference, the Marching Owl Band (which is like a version of the Stanford band that actually knows how to march and play instruments) put on a program depicting the end of the SWC done up as a prom dance. To make a drawn out program short (I'll let someone else find it), our representation in the program was left standing alone at the end and mocked for it, as we were the only ones that weren't going to a then-familiar conference.
RE: Could Rice restart the SWC in the post-Covid climate? - BruceMcF - 07-21-2021 03:28 AM
(07-20-2021 05:23 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:(07-20-2021 04:25 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: "That leaves the University of Arkansas, which isn’t in Texas. And Rice. Tiny Rice University, near downtown Houston. It’s the smallest university--2,600 undergrads--anywhere trying to play major college football, and trying to do it legally. Athletically speaking, this is the Littlest Big Non-whorehouse in Texas." ......
... Not much has changed with Rice football or basketball and they were never worthy of the AAC.
2020 Enrollment: 4,052 undergraduates, 7,536 total.
That would still be about 1/5th the size (20.5%) of the AAC average and 35% smaller than the current smallest school, SMU.
And it is true that 5 bowl games in the past twenty years, on 6 winning seasons doesn't suggest that Rice has of yet taken much advantage of more than doubling its enrollment. In the same time, Southern Miss has had 16 winning seasons, with 15 bowls (per SRC-CFB).