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+---- Thread: C-USA Split Rumor (/thread-907913.html)
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Cyniclone - 10-12-2020 02:45 PM
(10-12-2020 02:04 PM)army56mike Wrote: C-USA
(NORTH)
1. Marshall
2. WKU
3. MTSU
4. App St.
5. Charlotte
6. ODU
7. Liberty
(SOUTH)
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. Ga. State
4. Ga. Southern
5. UAB
6. Troy
7. CCU
I gather that UAB would rather be with the eastern schools than the western ones in CUSA, but is that the case for Troy? Or would they rather stay with ArkLaTex/Mississippi schools?
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - joeben69 - 10-12-2020 04:50 PM
(10-12-2020 02:04 PM)army56mike Wrote: C-USA
(NORTH)
1. Marshall
2. WKU
3. MTSU
4. App St.
5. Charlotte
6. ODU
7. Liberty
(SOUTH)
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. Ga. State
4. Ga. Southern
5. UAB
6. Troy
7. CCU
C-USA
(WEST)
1. NMST
2. UTEP
3. N. TX
4. TXST
5. UTSA
6. RICE
7. LA Tech
(EAST)
1. ARST
2. ULM
3. ULL
4. Southern MS
5. S. AL
6. UAB
7. Troy
SBC
(NORTH)
1. Marshall
2. ODU
3. WKU
4. MTSU
5. App St.
6. Liberty
(SOUTH)
1. Charlotte
2. CCU
3. GA State
4. GA Southern
5. FAU
6. FIU
![[Image: EOVNnmX.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/EOVNnmX.jpg)
https://csnbbs.com/thread-870124-page-2.html
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - bit_9 - 10-12-2020 08:39 PM
(10-11-2020 03:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: Here's what might have been the optimal setup for CUSA given the defections to the Big East/AAC in 2013 and 2014, and with 20/20 hindsight:
CUSA
East: Appalachian State, FAU, Georgia Southern, Marshall, Western Kentucky
West: Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Troy, UAB
Rice has opted to drop down to D3 to be with its academic peers in the UAA. And UTEP was booted out due to poor athletic performance and just being too damn far away.
Given the moves by CUSA, here is in turn possibly the optimal Sun Belt alignment:
Sun Belt
East: Coastal Carolina, FIU, Georgia State, Middle Tennessee, South Alabama
West: Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas, Texas State, UTSA
Non-FB: Little Rock
UTEP is now a member of the non-FB WAC and an FBS indy just like NMSU. Note that Charlotte and ODU do not move up to FBS (and possibly don't even start up FB) without a CUSA invite.
Absolutely, if CUSA didn't call ODU would still be FCS. ODU had no intention of moving up when starting football in 2009. At least not that fast. We were not prepared. But, there's no possibility we didn't start up football since it was announced it was coming back 7 years before any of the movement.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Fighting Muskie - 10-12-2020 09:12 PM
If C-USA had been hit with 1 giant wave of raiding, rather than 4 smaller ones, in the 2010s:
Marshall, realizing their closest conference opponent left is UAB, rejoins the MAC
The last 4 C-USA schools put together a footprint that probably more closely resembles C-USA West by courting the WAC schools (minus Idaho) and some of the Western Sunbelt schools.
With much of the west gutted, it’s the Sunbelt who takes on an Eastern feel.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - CarlSmithCenter - 10-12-2020 09:42 PM
(10-12-2020 04:50 PM)joeben69 Wrote:(10-12-2020 02:04 PM)army56mike Wrote: C-USA
(NORTH)
1. Marshall
2. WKU
3. MTSU
4. App St.
5. Charlotte
6. ODU
7. Liberty
(SOUTH)
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. Ga. State
4. Ga. Southern
5. UAB
6. Troy
7. CCU
C-USA
(WEST)
1. NMST
2. UTEP
3. N. TX
4. TXST
5. UTSA
6. RICE
7. LA Tech
(EAST)
1. ARST
2. ULM
3. ULL
4. Southern MS
5. S. AL
6. UAB
7. Troy
SBC
(NORTH)
1. Marshall
2. ODU
3. WKU
4. MTSU
5. App St.
6. Liberty
(SOUTH)
1. Charlotte
2. CCU
3. GA State
4. GA Southern
5. FAU
6. FIU
https://csnbbs.com/thread-870124-page-2.html
The two twelve-team conferences on your diagram make more sense than your proposal, respectfully. If two teams get added I think would more likely shake out like this:
League A
North: UMass*, UConn*, Marshall, ODU, MTSU, WKU, App. State.
South: Charlotte, Coastal, Ga. State, Ga. Southern, FIU, FAU, Troy.
*FB only, UMass and UConn guarantee a certain number of MBB and WBB non-conference games per year against League A teams.
League B
East: UAB, USA, USM, La. Tech, Arkansas State, Rice.
West: Louisiana, ULM, N. Texas, Texas State, UTSA, UTEP.
League B setup avoids having La. Tech in a division with the in-state schools it can’t get along with. You could also swap La. Tech and ASU into the West and put ULM and Louisiana in the East if you wanted to. Keeping Rice in the East gives the Alabama and Mississippi schools a recruiting hook in Houston.
If we entertain the notion that Liberty and NMSU football would add value sufficient to warrant admission, which I think is a huge if, then it would shake out like this if we’re ever to happen:
League A
North: UMass*, UConn*, Marshall, ODU, Liberty, MTSU, WKU.
South: App. State, Charlotte, Coastal, Ga. State, Ga. Southern, FIU, FAU.
League B
East: Troy, UAB, USA, USM, La. Tech, Arkansas State, Rice.
West: Louisiana, ULM, N. Texas, Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, NMSU.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Rabonchild - 10-12-2020 10:57 PM
(10-12-2020 02:04 PM)army56mike Wrote: C-USA
(NORTH)
1. Marshall
2. WKU
3. MTSU
4. App St.
5. Charlotte
6. ODU
7. Liberty
(SOUTH)
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. Ga. State
4. Ga. Southern
5. UAB
6. Troy
7. CCU
Georgia Southern may have more national football championships than the entire North Division. And Coastal Carolina has won a baseball World Series. The South may be ok.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Todor - 10-13-2020 02:36 AM
(10-12-2020 05:47 AM)jedclampett Wrote:(10-11-2020 11:14 PM)Todor Wrote: Liberty may be in the middle of the most pivotal time in its history.
Their board knows this is a rare chance to remake themselves.
That may be true, but there's not a whole lot of "re-making" that a University that has a fundamental hostility toward the scientific community and promotes the teaching of creationism (against evolution, denying that dinosaurs existed), a geology based on the idea that the earth is less than 6,000 years old, an American history that portrays slave owners as humanitarians and refers to the Civil War as "the war of northern aggression," and a psychology that promotes the notion that non-heterosexuals and trans-gendered people are mentally disturbed sinners can do.
Some C-USA universities might be ok with developing a close association with Liberty, but some of the more academically-oriented schools (e.g., Rice, an AAU school) won't be eager to see their conference's academic reputation and accreditation status take a hit like that.
Um, I kinda just mean they would have the chance to get a new administration, for the first time since their founding. I am not precisely sure what their stances are on, for example, geology. And I know Rice is a high academics institution. But the rest of the schools involved are total academic nobodies. And I doubt the academic sides of those institutions have enough clout to influence conference realignment moves.
Regarding anyone's accreditation status--I am reasonably sure a school will not lose their accreditation strictly for being athletically affiliated with Liberty, with whom they already share the same accreditation.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Kit-Cat - 10-13-2020 05:50 AM
(10-12-2020 09:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: If C-USA had been hit with 1 giant wave of raiding, rather than 4 smaller ones, in the 2010s:
Marshall, realizing their closest conference opponent left is UAB, rejoins the MAC
The last 4 C-USA schools put together a footprint that probably more closely resembles C-USA West by courting the WAC schools (minus Idaho) and some of the Western Sunbelt schools.
With much of the west gutted, it’s the Sunbelt who takes on an Eastern feel.
Would have, could have, should have....
CUSA has 14 in FB and SBC has 10. That is 24 schools total and could easily be three conferences of 8.
The best way to reduce travel might be for CUSA to invite in Texas St and Louisiana which sends UAB to the east division. Then at two divisions of 8, CUSA would be like two conferences with the advantages of one larger entity.
Otherwise it might become 3 conferences.
New Conference: UAB, MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, FAU, FIU
CUSA: UTEP, TXST, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LaTech, Louisiana, So Miss
SBC: ArSt, ULM, USA, Troy, GS, GST, App St, Coastal
This isn't even considering NMSU and/or Liberty could get into one of these conferences and the continued existence of FCS backfill candidates.
Strength in numbers for now (16 w/ TxSt, Louisiana). Then down the road there could be losses to the MWC and/or AAC which could open a spot or two in CUSA for more programs. The fear I would be having is if CUSA lost 3-4 programs and couldn't rebuild from the SBC any longer because it didn't make enough difference.
MWC: UTEP, Rice
AAC: UAB, SoMiss
At that point it may not be worth the SBC exit fees for even TxSt or Louisiana to consider the move.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - The Cutter of Bish - 10-13-2020 07:23 AM
(10-13-2020 02:36 AM)Todor Wrote: And I know Rice is a high academics institution. But the rest of the schools involved are total academic nobodies. And I doubt the academic sides of those institutions have enough clout to influence conference realignment moves.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the logic, but, that’s not how the schools see themselves, and, they have a spot and Liberty doesn’t. So, there’s that.
This followed Liberty in FCS and FBS. Same with Coastal. The academic worthiness for both to move up to SoCon or CAA/F. Both never having the votes for either. It’s the nature of the politics that run in these places. And I doubt there’s that big of a divide between administrators and faculty, since, in higher ed, administrators were likely once faculty themselves.
And I wonder about Coastal, too. That you have former CAAF and SoCon schools in Sun Belt, and whether there’s residual bitterness over being placed at the same level as them when, for years, Coastal couldn’t hang.
ODU is one thing, but Charlotte’s got the more interesting story, imo. They explored football, built an expandable stadium, partnered with the likes of Tulane to get back into CUSA favor at a time when some of the old gang was still there, and moved straight through to D1A, rejecting any time in SoCon, Big South, and CAAF, who all invited them to play there. You talk about a hot-shot program who might think themselves higher than they are in the likes of CUSA and Sun Belt...Rice and ODU might not be unhappy, but Charlotte bulldozed right through...only to see where they are now. Yeah, I can imagine they would want something different.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Fighting Muskie - 10-13-2020 12:53 PM
(10-13-2020 05:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:(10-12-2020 09:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: If C-USA had been hit with 1 giant wave of raiding, rather than 4 smaller ones, in the 2010s:
Marshall, realizing their closest conference opponent left is UAB, rejoins the MAC
The last 4 C-USA schools put together a footprint that probably more closely resembles C-USA West by courting the WAC schools (minus Idaho) and some of the Western Sunbelt schools.
With much of the west gutted, it’s the Sunbelt who takes on an Eastern feel.
Would have, could have, should have....
CUSA has 14 in FB and SBC has 10. That is 24 schools total and could easily be three conferences of 8.
The best way to reduce travel might be for CUSA to invite in Texas St and Louisiana which sends UAB to the east division. Then at two divisions of 8, CUSA would be like two conferences with the advantages of one larger entity.
Otherwise it might become 3 conferences.
New Conference: UAB, MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, FAU, FIU
CUSA: UTEP, TXST, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LaTech, Louisiana, So Miss
SBC: ArSt, ULM, USA, Troy, GS, GST, App St, Coastal
This isn't even considering NMSU and/or Liberty could get into one of these conferences and the continued existence of FCS backfill candidates.
Strength in numbers for now (16 w/ TxSt, Louisiana). Then down the road there could be losses to the MWC and/or AAC which could open a spot or two in CUSA for more programs. The fear I would be having is if CUSA lost 3-4 programs and couldn't rebuild from the SBC any longer because it didn't make enough difference.
MWC: UTEP, Rice
AAC: UAB, SoMiss
At that point it may not be worth the SBC exit fees for even TxSt or Louisiana to consider the move.
That’s sensible.
I could see the former C-USA East picking up JMU as their 9th member.
Do you think the two C-USA conferences would agree to not poach the SBC, aside from Texas St and ULL though? That’s the hiccup I see. 10 feels much safer than 8 members. You could very easily see the C-USA schools gobbling up 6 of the SBC schools among them and then The SBC would be left with just 4 fb schools, and 2 non-fb schools.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - panama - 10-13-2020 02:05 PM
(10-11-2020 09:36 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote: NorthLol
Marshall
App State
JMU
ODU
Liberty
South
Ga state
Ga Southern
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FAU
Mountain Coast Conference
Liberty bankrolls a lot of it to get CFP eligible.
Conference headquarters in Charlotte.
PS: I know this will in no shape or form ever happen.
Lol
Lol
El oh el
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - panama - 10-13-2020 02:08 PM
(10-11-2020 10:18 AM)Steve1981 Wrote: Never say never or nobody.
(10-11-2020 09:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:Funny how they were square in the CAA footprint and couldn't get in eine when the CAA was taking anybody in 2012. I mean they can walk to CAA headquarters.(10-11-2020 09:36 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote: North
Marshall
App State
JMU
ODU
Liberty
South
Ga state
Ga Southern
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FAU
Mountain Coast Conference
Liberty bankrolls a lot of it to get CFP eligible.
Conference headquarters in Charlotte.
PS: I know this will in no shape or form ever happen.
Nobody wants to be associated with Liberty.
The SBC took Coastall who was in nobody's radar for moving to FBS rather than take actual money from Liberty.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - edscollects@gmail.com - 10-13-2020 03:33 PM
This is the first I have seen this, but this is the situation at all levels. Conferences are realigning to cut the radius distance between schools and scheduling partners. This is not a yesterday item either it has been occurring since the beginning of the 2000's at least
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - CitrusUCF - 10-13-2020 03:59 PM
(10-13-2020 02:08 PM)panama Wrote:(10-11-2020 10:18 AM)Steve1981 Wrote: Never say never or nobody.(10-11-2020 09:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:Funny how they were square in the CAA footprint and couldn't get in eine when the CAA was taking anybody in 2012. I mean they can walk to CAA headquarters.(10-11-2020 09:36 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote: North
Marshall
App State
JMU
ODU
Liberty
South
Ga state
Ga Southern
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FAU
Mountain Coast Conference
Liberty bankrolls a lot of it to get CFP eligible.
Conference headquarters in Charlotte.
PS: I know this will in no shape or form ever happen.
Nobody wants to be associated with Liberty.
The SBC took Coastall who was in nobody's radar for moving to FBS rather than take actual money from Liberty.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Well, with Falwell Jr. out of the picture, we'll see if Liberty turns itself in a reputable academic institution with a professional academic as president, no Falwells on the board, and transparency about all the self-dealing that has been done with companies controlled by the Falwells and their friends.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - The Cutter of Bish - 10-14-2020 07:21 AM
(10-13-2020 03:59 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:(10-13-2020 02:08 PM)panama Wrote:(10-11-2020 10:18 AM)Steve1981 Wrote: Never say never or nobody.(10-11-2020 09:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:Funny how they were square in the CAA footprint and couldn't get in eine when the CAA was taking anybody in 2012. I mean they can walk to CAA headquarters.(10-11-2020 09:36 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote: North
Marshall
App State
JMU
ODU
Liberty
South
Ga state
Ga Southern
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FAU
Mountain Coast Conference
Liberty bankrolls a lot of it to get CFP eligible.
Conference headquarters in Charlotte.
PS: I know this will in no shape or form ever happen.
Nobody wants to be associated with Liberty.
The SBC took Coastall who was in nobody's radar for moving to FBS rather than take actual money from Liberty.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Well, with Falwell Jr. out of the picture, we'll see if Liberty turns itself in a reputable academic institution with a professional academic as president, no Falwells on the board, and transparency about all the self-dealing that has been done with companies controlled by the Falwells and their friends.
Whether one liked or didn’t much care for the Falwell’s, when it came to doing something with conviction, the school went all in. That’s going to be missed. Especially with sports, because the school spent a mint to be where they are and ready to match a top level. “A new guard” could slash that budget, and while it might make others more comfortable that they won’t be out-resourced by LU, I suspect it may take years, maybe even decades, before you see some “forgiveness” by other institutions.
I think any shift in the next five years between the PAC, Big XII, and AAC probably gets Liberty into at least the Sun Belt.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - army56mike - 10-14-2020 07:36 AM
The focus should be less on Liberty and more on what a solid athletic conference this could be. It is a nice evenly spread competitive southern conference. The north/south balance is great and the pairing of in state teams and close rivals works well. If you don’t like Liberty there substitute JMU. This could be a multi bid basketball comference, with good olympic sports, and some darn good football being played. And it keeps all the teams in the same region, mainly within the same 3 or 4 bordering states. I think this version of C-USA more resembles the original version of C-USA with potential and competition.
(10-12-2020 02:04 PM)army56mike Wrote: C-USA
(NORTH-Mountain)
1. Marshall
2. WKU
3. MTSU
4. App St.
5. Charlotte
6. ODU
7. Liberty
(SOUTH-Coastal)
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. Ga. State
4. Ga. Southern
5. UAB
6. Troy
7. CCU
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - The Cutter of Bish - 10-14-2020 07:47 AM
I was never a fan of the F*U grabs. One, not both. It was done in panic and haste, and I do suspect there is some regret there with some members. Same maybe with all the Texas grabs.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - GreenBison - 10-14-2020 10:04 AM
(10-14-2020 07:36 AM)army56mike Wrote: The focus should be less on Liberty and more on what a solid athletic conference this could be. It is a nice evenly spread competitive southern conference. The north/south balance is great and the pairing of in state teams and close rivals works well. If you don’t like Liberty there substitute JMU. This could be a multi bid basketball comference, with good olympic sports, and some darn good football being played. And it keeps all the teams in the same region, mainly within the same 3 or 4 bordering states. I think this version of C-USA more resembles the original version of C-USA with potential and competition.
(10-12-2020 02:04 PM)army56mike Wrote: C-USA
(NORTH-Mountain)
1. Marshall
2. WKU
3. MTSU
4. App St.
5. Charlotte
6. ODU
7. Liberty
(SOUTH-Coastal)
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. Ga. State
4. Ga. Southern
5. UAB
6. Troy
7. CCU
What? Just delete Liberty and Georgia State and now we have a solid 12 team conference. More than 12 is just a waste of time and money.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - DFW HOYA - 10-14-2020 10:25 AM
(10-14-2020 10:04 AM)GreenBison Wrote: What? Just delete Liberty and Georgia State and now we have a solid 12 team conference. More than 12 is just a waste of time and money.
At its peak, the Southern Conference fielded 23 teams.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_Southern_Conference_football_season
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Cyniclone - 10-14-2020 10:43 AM
(10-14-2020 07:47 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: I was never a fan of the F*U grabs. One, not both. It was done in panic and haste, and I do suspect there is some regret there with some members. Same maybe with all the Texas grabs.
If you're extending your footprint (and unless you're the ASUN, any expansion into Florida is a sizeable extension), and you have a travel-partner schedule, then you need two schools. Otherwise you're going from Texas or Kentucky or Norfolk for a one-off in South Florida, which isn't ideal. If you're making the trip, take the Ernie Banks approach and play two.