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Sam Mitchell's take - Tigergary - 11-11-2019 11:05 PM
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - TigerBlue4Ever - 11-12-2019 07:32 AM
This was my first thought when the news broke. No way in hell a former college player and AAU coach isn't aware of the rules and a new coach doesn't sit down with the compliance offfice® and learn the rule book, especially as pertains to recruits and recruiting.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - macgar32 - 11-12-2019 07:56 AM
(11-12-2019 07:32 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote: This was my first thought when the news broke. No way in hell a former college player and AAU coach isn't aware of the rules and a new coach doesn't sit down with the compliance offfice® and learn the rule book, especially as pertains to recruits and recruiting.
I completely agree that Penny is fully aware of the rules and knows exactly what they are since he has become coach.
Penny wasn't the coach when he gave the money and wasn't concerned about his relationship with the U of M when he gave the money to Wiseman. Honestly it was a bad decision because Hardaway knew it could possibly hurt the kid the future. I am sure Hardaway never intended this information to come out.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - TIGERCITY - 11-12-2019 07:58 AM
Yes, Penny was simply helping Wiseman family move to Memphis so they could be with his sister and Wiseman while Wiseman played at *East High School.* Tubby had just become the Memphis coach and there was a one-year window that Wiseman would play college ball. There's no way in hell that the moving expenses were given to the Wiseman family in the hope that Wiseman would play at the University of Memphis. Penney's players were going everywhere *except* Memphis during that time. Yet it's the NCAAs way to completely ignore the evidence when it goes to "motivation and intent." And completely ignore who is really being punished (an *innocent party* in Wiseman) and that persons involvement. Shameful. I hope this case changes those rules.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - MemphisTigerPawr - 11-12-2019 08:04 AM
(11-12-2019 07:58 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote: Yes, Penny was simply helping Wiseman family move to Memphis so they could be with his sister and Wiseman while Wiseman played at *East High School.* Tubby had just become the Memphis coach and there was a one-year window that Wiseman would play college ball. There's no way in hell that the moving expenses were given to the Wiseman family in the hope that Wiseman would play at the University of Memphis. Penney's players were going everywhere *except* Memphis during that time. Yet it's the NCAAs way to completely ignore the evidence when it goes to "motivation and intent." And completely ignore is really being punished (an *innocent party* in Wiseman) and what that persons involvement at all. Shameful. And I hope this case changes those rules.
This point is so obvious that it seems the NCAAs intent is to truly do harm to Memphis and Penny, our reputation, and nothing to do with genuine enforcement.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - Fluke - 11-12-2019 08:26 AM
Also something people haven’t mentioned. If penny knew he would be getting the job why the hell would Lomax commit to Wichita when he did? Obviously they didn’t.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - Hoots - 11-12-2019 08:28 AM
(11-12-2019 08:26 AM)Fluke Wrote: Also something people haven’t mentioned. If penny knew he would be getting the job why the hell would Lomax commit to Wichita when he did? Obviously they didn’t.
Good point.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - holyterror - 11-12-2019 08:32 AM
(11-12-2019 08:26 AM)Fluke Wrote: Also something people haven’t mentioned. If penny knew he would be getting the job why the hell would Lomax commit to Wichita when he did? Obviously they didn’t.
Excellent.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - CUSA_NEWS - 11-12-2019 08:52 AM
(11-12-2019 08:28 AM)Hoots Wrote:(11-12-2019 08:26 AM)Fluke Wrote: Also something people haven’t mentioned. If penny knew he would be getting the job why the hell would Lomax commit to Wichita when he did? Obviously they didn’t.
Good point.
Which strengthens their case.
Also this:
Link
Quote:Okay, say in 2008 that Penny was a booster, and nine years later he is still a booster. Unless it is a recruiting violation, it doesn’t matter that he gave Wiseman’s family money in 2017. The booster has to violate a NCAA rule.
Quote:So, did Penny engage in illegal recruiting by giving the money? In my opinion, no way, no how. He never recruited James in 2017 to attend Memphis. He wasn’t the coach at Memphis. He was coaching high school basketball! And even if that had violated high school athletic association rules—I’m not aware that it did—that doesn’t violate NCAA rules.
Basically NCAA has no jurisdiction. Penny may have recruited James to East with the payment but that's not a NCAA rule (recruiting players to a high school). NCAA rule states recruit to a particular college.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - mairving - 11-12-2019 08:52 AM
(11-12-2019 08:26 AM)Fluke Wrote: Also something people haven’t mentioned. If penny knew he would be getting the job why the hell would Lomax commit to Wichita when he did? Obviously they didn’t.
Logic is lost on the NCAA.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - macgar32 - 11-12-2019 09:41 AM
For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - thagr82008 - 11-12-2019 09:50 AM
(11-12-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote: For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
How did the stipend to his mom in 2017 get Wiseman to attend UofM in 2019......
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - UofMstateU - 11-12-2019 09:52 AM
(11-12-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote: For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
You cant play 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon with a statute. Its either in the bylaws, or it isnt.
Also, there was nothing hidden about this payment. Due to the same payment, the TSSAA ruled Wiseman ineligible to play at East, Wiseman and Penny fought back (and had the same Judge in Kyle) and the TSSAA simply let it go. There was a court case on this already. Its not like anyone could have hid this if they wanted to.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - geedog50 - 11-12-2019 09:53 AM
(11-12-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote: For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
From your standpoint we should ask Penny what's the Powerball numbers.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - macgar32 - 11-12-2019 09:58 AM
(11-12-2019 09:50 AM)thagr82008 Wrote:(11-12-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote: For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
You don't think Wiseman playing for Penny in High School helped Penny get him to the UofM
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - macgar32 - 11-12-2019 10:00 AM
(11-12-2019 09:52 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:(11-12-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote: For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
You cant play 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon with a statute. Its either in the bylaws, or it isnt.
Also, there was nothing hidden about this payment. Due to the same payment, the TSSAA ruled Wiseman ineligible to play at East, Wiseman and Penny fought back (and had the same Judge in Kyle) and the TSSAA simply let it go. There was a court case on this already. Its not like anyone could have hid this if they wanted to.
The statue says a booster cannot give anything of value to a player...Intent is not included.
There are other rules that allowed Penny to give him the money as far as being his coach but I think that is where the NCAA says they made a mistake.
I don't think we can win this case by saying we didn't break a rule. Our case lies in the NCAA not honoring their commitment.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - RekeHavoc - 11-12-2019 10:09 AM
I don't think he was ruled ineligible at East due to the payment. I don't think that was known at the time. They were arguing the prior coaching link angle due to Wiseman playing on Team Penny.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - SeñorTiger - 11-12-2019 10:11 AM
(11-12-2019 10:09 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote: I don't think he was ruled ineligible at East due to the payment. I don't think that was known at the time. They were arguing the prior coaching link angle due to Wiseman playing on Team Penny.
I thought it was all about the $11,500 payment to help them move from Nashville to Memphis.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - Tigers2B1 - 11-12-2019 10:27 AM
(11-12-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote: For completeness...
The money that Penny paid the Wiseman's while its intent was not to recruit Wiseman to the University of Memphis.
That money did help Penny get Wiseman to attend the University of Memphis
although you phrase that last part as a conclusion I think I would describe that as more of an assumption. Wiseman could have signed with Memphis without his mother moving here. His sister was already enrolled at Memphis without their mother here. Why not the assumption that she simply wanted to be near her children... And Penny provided the means to enable that.
RE: Sam Mitchell's take - RekeHavoc - 11-12-2019 10:37 AM
(11-12-2019 10:11 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:(11-12-2019 10:09 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote: I don't think he was ruled ineligible at East due to the payment. I don't think that was known at the time. They were arguing the prior coaching link angle due to Wiseman playing on Team Penny.
I thought it was all about the $11,500 payment to help them move from Nashville to Memphis.
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/high-school/2017/11/20/tssaa-denies-easts-appeal-ryan-boyce-and-james-wiseman-ineligible-season/878572001/