(08-28-2018 10:00 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:20 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  It was Cohen’s money. It was 420k and Trump was to repay Cohen.
Tangled web.

What does that have to do with campaign finance law? If the cops wanted to, they can ticket a lot more people for J Walking and speeding. Paying hush money during a campaign is analogous to speeding IMHO. All of these politicians have skeletons in their closets and they all do shady stuff to hide their sins from the voting public at various points in their careers.

This really does look like a witch hunt. What I really want to know is whether Trump actually worked with Russian operatives to steal the election. If he truly did that, then he needs to be imprisoned. If not...then wrap this sh!t up and shut down the Mueller probe. You would think at this point in the game, there would have been something substantial that would have leaked that could have been verified as factual. Everything that has "leaked" so far has been later proven to be false. Unfortunately, those retractions aren't nearly as public as the initial media accusations - which tells me the primary purpose of this investigation is to attempt to influence the electorate to vote in people opposed to Donald Trump. You have to follow the logic based on the actions seen, and it's looking like this is a political gambit to win seats in the house and senate.

The NY probe has nothing to do with Mueller.

(08-28-2018 08:16 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The investigation in the southern district of NY is the one that stands to bring down Trump.
Mueller’s case is one of public opinion, while the NY case will actually play out in a court of law. David Pecker and Alan Weisselberg have already been granted immunity and will testify... likely backing Cohen’s testimony and the crime he has been implicated is a felony. Will Trump be forced to testify? Im guessing he’d like to get Kavanaugh seated before he is subpoenaed.

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Mueller is not leading the case in NY. The felony Trump is implicated is breaking campaign finance laws by funneling 420k in hush money payments through his attorney.

If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

(08-28-2018 10:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 10:00 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:20 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  It was Cohen’s money. It was 420k and Trump was to repay Cohen.
Tangled web.

What does that have to do with campaign finance law? If the cops wanted to, they can ticket a lot more people for J Walking and speeding. Paying hush money during a campaign is analogous to speeding IMHO. All of these politicians have skeletons in their closets and they all do shady stuff to hide their sins from the voting public at various points in their careers.

This really does look like a witch hunt. What I really want to know is whether Trump actually worked with Russian operatives to steal the election. If he truly did that, then he needs to be imprisoned. If not...then wrap this sh!t up and shut down the Mueller probe. You would think at this point in the game, there would have been something substantial that would have leaked that could have been verified as factual. Everything that has "leaked" so far has been later proven to be false. Unfortunately, those retractions aren't nearly as public as the initial media accusations - which tells me the primary purpose of this investigation is to attempt to influence the electorate to vote in people opposed to Donald Trump. You have to follow the logic based on the actions seen, and it's looking like this is a political gambit to win seats in the house and senate.

The NY probe has nothing to do with Mueller.

Yes it does because the payoff to Mueller is for him to swoop in with immunity deals to try to get Trump. Let's assume for the sake of argument that all of it is true, and that Trump is guilty of everything the progressives and Clintons accuse him of doing. The problem with that is there is an awful lot of free rides given to rotten people just to get Trump. So the question I have in all this is - would it be worth it? Because let's get down to brass tacks...would these rotten people with sweetheart deals for immunity actually go forth and sin no more? Or will they simply latch onto the next guy with money and continue their rotten behavior?

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Mueller is not leading the case in NY. The felony Trump is implicated is breaking campaign finance laws by funneling 420k in hush money payments through his attorney.

If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

True.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000
By MAGGIE HABERMAN 01/04/2013 03:48 PM EST
Politico

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

(08-28-2018 11:04 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:16 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The investigation in the southern district of NY is the one that stands to bring down Trump.
Mueller’s case is one of public opinion, while the NY case will actually play out in a court of law. David Pecker and Alan Weisselberg have already been granted immunity and will testify... likely backing Cohen’s testimony and the crime he has been implicated is a felony. Will Trump be forced to testify? Im guessing he’d like to get Kavanaugh seated before he is subpoenaed.

A sitting president cannot be indicted.

(08-28-2018 11:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 10:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 10:00 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:20 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  It was Cohen’s money. It was 420k and Trump was to repay Cohen.
Tangled web.

What does that have to do with campaign finance law? If the cops wanted to, they can ticket a lot more people for J Walking and speeding. Paying hush money during a campaign is analogous to speeding IMHO. All of these politicians have skeletons in their closets and they all do shady stuff to hide their sins from the voting public at various points in their careers.

This really does look like a witch hunt. What I really want to know is whether Trump actually worked with Russian operatives to steal the election. If he truly did that, then he needs to be imprisoned. If not...then wrap this sh!t up and shut down the Mueller probe. You would think at this point in the game, there would have been something substantial that would have leaked that could have been verified as factual. Everything that has "leaked" so far has been later proven to be false. Unfortunately, those retractions aren't nearly as public as the initial media accusations - which tells me the primary purpose of this investigation is to attempt to influence the electorate to vote in people opposed to Donald Trump. You have to follow the logic based on the actions seen, and it's looking like this is a political gambit to win seats in the house and senate.

The NY probe has nothing to do with Mueller.

Yes it does because the payoff to Mueller is for him to swoop in with immunity deals to try to get Trump. Let's assume for the sake of argument that all of it is true, and that Trump is guilty of everything the progressives and Clintons accuse him of doing. The problem with that is there is an awful lot of free rides given to rotten people just to get Trump. So the question I have in all this is - would it be worth it? Because let's get down to brass tacks...would these rotten people with sweetheart deals for immunity actually go forth and sin no more? Or will they simply latch onto the next guy with money and continue their rotten behavior?

Trump has surrounded himself with rotten people and rotten people are frequently given immunity for their testimony when they have incriminating information on even worse people.

The immunity deals for Pecker and Weisselberg did not come from Mueller, however.

(08-28-2018 11:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Mueller is not leading the case in NY. The felony Trump is implicated is breaking campaign finance laws by funneling 420k in hush money payments through his attorney.

If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

True.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000
By MAGGIE HABERMAN 01/04/2013 03:48 PM EST
Politico

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

The difference is Trump personally arranged this illegal payoff.
The infractions from the Obama campaign were admittedly minor and clerical and certainly did not involve the candidate.

But independent experts, including former FEC commissioner Michael Toner, said after the audit was released that the infractions were relatively minor, given the scope of the campaign.

(08-28-2018 12:35 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Mueller is not leading the case in NY. The felony Trump is implicated is breaking campaign finance laws by funneling 420k in hush money payments through his attorney.

If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

True.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000
By MAGGIE HABERMAN 01/04/2013 03:48 PM EST
Politico

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

The difference is Trump personally arranged this illegal payoff.
The infractions from the Obama campaign were admittedly minor and clerical and certainly did not involve the candidate.

But independent experts, including former FEC commissioner Michael Toner, said after the audit was released that the infractions were relatively minor, given the scope of the campaign.

Payoff isn't illegal. The FEC rules are purposefully written so that any matter that is not expressly a campaign expense is exempted from the campaign finance laws. There are numerous reasons Trump would want to keep any alleged affairs private other than the campaign.

"Cohen’s payment to the woman who claims to have had an affair with Trump would have to be paid with campaign funds if it is to be viewed as a campaign contribution. But paying someone to keep silent about an alleged extramarital affair is not an expense solely related to a campaign, Bradley explained.

“There are many reasons, including personal and commercial ones, why Mr. Trump might want to keep allegations of extramarital affairs out of the press,” Bradley wrote.

If the same loose interpretation of campaign finance laws were applied to Trump’s opponent in the election, Hillary Clinton, charitable spending by the Clinton Foundation could be viewed as benefiting her candidacy and would have to be considered a campaign expense, Bradley pointed out.

“Many ardent anti-Trumpers sincerely believe that the president is a threat to the rule of law. The real threat to the rule of law, however, comes from abusing laws to ‘get’ a political opponent,” Bradley concluded. “Some matters are for voters to decide.” https://www.theepochtimes.com/former-fec-chairman-trump-lawyers-hush-money-is-not-a-campaign-contribution_2492089.html

(08-28-2018 01:04 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 12:35 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

True.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000
By MAGGIE HABERMAN 01/04/2013 03:48 PM EST
Politico

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

The difference is Trump personally arranged this illegal payoff.
The infractions from the Obama campaign were admittedly minor and clerical and certainly did not involve the candidate.

But independent experts, including former FEC commissioner Michael Toner, said after the audit was released that the infractions were relatively minor, given the scope of the campaign.

Payoff isn't illegal. The FEC rules are purposefully written so that any matter that is not expressly a campaign expense is exempted from the campaign finance laws. There are numerous reasons Trump would want to keep any alleged affairs private other than the campaign.

"Cohen’s payment to the woman who claims to have had an affair with Trump would have to be paid with campaign funds if it is to be viewed as a campaign contribution. But paying someone to keep silent about an alleged extramarital affair is not an expense solely related to a campaign, Bradley explained.

“There are many reasons, including personal and commercial ones, why Mr. Trump might want to keep allegations of extramarital affairs out of the press,” Bradley wrote.

If the same loose interpretation of campaign finance laws were applied to Trump’s opponent in the election, Hillary Clinton, charitable spending by the Clinton Foundation could be viewed as benefiting her candidacy and would have to be considered a campaign expense, Bradley pointed out.

“Many ardent anti-Trumpers sincerely believe that the president is a threat to the rule of law. The real threat to the rule of law, however, comes from abusing laws to ‘get’ a political opponent,” Bradley concluded. “Some matters are for voters to decide.” https://www.theepochtimes.com/former-fec-chairman-trump-lawyers-hush-money-is-not-a-campaign-contribution_2492089.html

The wonderful thing about the immunity arrangements for Cohen, Weisselberg and Pecker is we will not have to interpret Trump's intentions. There were there and they know firsthand what his intentions were.

(08-28-2018 11:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Mueller is not leading the case in NY. The felony Trump is implicated is breaking campaign finance laws by funneling 420k in hush money payments through his attorney.

If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

True.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000
By MAGGIE HABERMAN 01/04/2013 03:48 PM EST
Politico

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

The difference is Trump personally arranged this illegal payoff.
The infractions from the Obama campaign were admittedly minor and clerical and certainly did not involve the candidate.

But independent experts, including former FEC commissioner Michael Toner, said after the audit was released that the infractions were relatively minor, given the scope of the campaign.

(08-28-2018 01:25 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 08:40 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Mueller is not leading the case in NY. The felony Trump is implicated is breaking campaign finance laws by funneling 420k in hush money payments through his attorney.

If Trump did break campaign finance laws, then I expect him to get the same punishment that Obama got for breaking campaign finance laws.

Or did you not hear about that......

True.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000
By MAGGIE HABERMAN 01/04/2013 03:48 PM EST
Politico

Quote:President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

The difference is Trump personally arranged this illegal payoff.
The infractions from the Obama campaign were admittedly minor and clerical and certainly did not involve the candidate.

But independent experts, including former FEC commissioner Michael Toner, said after the audit was released that the infractions were relatively minor, given the scope of the campaign.

A non-disclosure payment is not against the law. It happens every day.

Nor is it a violation of campaign finance guidelines -- that is, according to the former chair of the committee that wrote those very guidelines.

You should listen to Mark Levin every so often. He nails it.

(08-27-2018 03:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/08/27/michael-cohens-lawyer-has-done-real-damage-case-against-trump/?utm_term=.5383968bd37b

Michael Cohen’s lawyer has done real damage to the case against Trump

Bwahahahaha dummies

(08-28-2018 09:20 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  It was Cohen’s money. It was 420k and Trump was to repay Cohen.
Tangled web.

What does that have to do with campaign finance law? If the cops wanted to, they can ticket a lot more people for J Walking and speeding. Paying hush money during a campaign is analogous to speeding IMHO. All of these politicians have skeletons in their closets and they all do shady stuff to hide their sins from the voting public at various points in their careers.

This really does look like a witch hunt. What I really want to know is whether Trump actually worked with Russian operatives to steal the election. If he truly did that, then he needs to be imprisoned. If not...then wrap this sh!t up and shut down the Mueller probe. You would think at this point in the game, there would have been something substantial that would have leaked that could have been verified as factual. Everything that has "leaked" so far has been later proven to be false. Unfortunately, those retractions aren't nearly as public as the initial media accusations - which tells me the primary purpose of this investigation is to attempt to influence the electorate to vote in people opposed to Donald Trump. You have to follow the logic based on the actions seen, and it's looking like this is a political gambit to win seats in the house and senate.

(08-28-2018 11:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The difference is Trump personally arranged this illegal payoff.
The infractions from the Obama campaign were admittedly minor and clerical and certainly did not involve the candidate.

(08-28-2018 09:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  It was Cohen’s money. It was 420k and Trump was to repay Cohen.
Tangled web.