+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: SoConbbs (/forum-266.html)
+---- Forum: SoCon Team Talk (/forum-944.html)
+----- Forum: ETSU (/forum-335.html)
+----- Thread: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final (/thread-411383.html)
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - PittsburghBucs - 01-05-2010 11:07 PM
It is sad.
Here's what I don't get. If you were to poll Pittsburgh Pirates fans under 25, they'd have no rememberance when the Bucs were one of the best franchises in the National League.
But I don't think you'd hear them say "I don't care about Willie Stargell and Roberto Clemente."
I do believe Major League Baseball is a bit different because in Major League Baseball, somehow what Three Finger Brown did 100 years ago is relevant to Cubs fans, and certainly what Babe Ruth did in 1927 is relevant not just to Yankees fans, but all baseball fans. I think it is because baseball cherishes and promotes its history.
We've talked about how ETSU wants to almost discard their history; how "2007 was the greatest year in the history of ETSU sports" according to David Mullins.
That's just out and out propaganda. How do you compare an NIT berth with, say, a Top 10 national ranking?
How do you promote an all-sports trophy in the A-Sun ahead of one won in the SoCon in 1983?
Sad to say, Let's Go Bucs is the new generation of ETSU fans. Perhaps as they get older they'll learn a bit about the Harley Swifts and Mister Jennings, to say nothing of the Donnie Abrahams, the Atlee Hammakers, and the Ernie Bowmans and Jim Mooneys.
However, if there is a positive, and if it is a positive it is a dark one, there seems to be fewer of these "next generation" fans than there were in years past. And, as you know, I believe with a deteriorating fan base eventually some new regime has got to come in and say "I'VE READ THE BOOK- THIS ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR ETSU STANDARDS!"
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - Goldfinger - 01-05-2010 11:17 PM
Is it any wonder why 22, 54, and 42 aren't hanging in the rafters at the dome?
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - GoBucsGo - 01-05-2010 11:43 PM
This thread starting as discussing a big win for a team that we BEAT this year. Somehow, it's degraded to 'ETSU athletics sucks.'
It is amazing how our own so-called fans can tear down something that actually is a big positive for this basketball team.
No matter how much you guys scream & yell about the great mighty Southern Conference, it still gets one bid.
And by the way, the team behind Western in the SoCon North, App State, got drilled by Campbell the other night. If you're going to talk about how great the league is, then you gotta take the good w/ the supposedly horrible performances.
Is this a seminar Gold? Sorry man....
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - Goldfinger - 01-06-2010 12:23 AM
(01-05-2010 11:43 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote: Is this a seminar Gold? Sorry man....
Congratulations! You've identified the problem. Step 2 is doing something about it.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - BucNut22 - 01-06-2010 12:41 AM
(01-05-2010 11:43 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote: This thread starting as discussing a big win for a team that we BEAT this year. Somehow, it's degraded to 'ETSU athletics sucks.'I`m not calling the So Con great but compared to what exists in the A-Sun it is great. The preseason favorite in the A-Sun can barely get 800, people to come out to games. Meanwhile programs like College of Charleston, Davidson, and UTC are hosting top 25 teams. That is just one of the MANY indicators that the A-Sun is inferior.
It is amazing how our own so-called fans can tear down something that actually is a big positive for this basketball team.
No matter how much you guys scream & yell about the great mighty Southern Conference, it still gets one bid.
And by the way, the team behind Western in the SoCon North, App State, got drilled by Campbell the other night. If you're going to talk about how great the league is, then you gotta take the good w/ the supposedly horrible performances.
Is this a seminar Gold? Sorry man....
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - PittsburghBucs - 01-06-2010 10:44 AM
Go- If bragging on victories by C of C is supposed to be a positive for ETSU, doesn't it say how far this program has fallen by Bucs fans having to live vicariously through a former conference opponent for positives?
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - GoBucsGo - 01-06-2010 01:07 PM
No, Pitt. My point is that we BEAT Charleston, who BEAT UNC. Do you understand that? There is no vicarious living going on - it's that a team that we beat just won against a top 10 team. IT HELPS OUR RPI!
How far this program has fallen? We have a win over Arkansas. We have a win over Charleston. We have a win over App. We have a 5-2 record against our former league the last 3 years w/ the only two losses coming on the road @ UTC, where we lost in the glory years if '88-'92. Fallen? The data doesn't support it.
Is the ASun as strong as the SoCon. No. I have never said that. But you guys go ahead & think I said if it makes you feel better. You guys need someone to hate.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - RodShaw2 - 01-06-2010 01:10 PM
(01-05-2010 09:18 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: I wasn't around 10 years ago and before, and to be frank I don't care what it was like then. I know what I've experienced since I've been here and Belmont is a better game.
Okay that first sentence. Thats all I need to see, you don't know what you are talking about and need to be quiet before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - LetsgoBucs - 01-06-2010 01:28 PM
(01-06-2010 01:10 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:(01-05-2010 09:18 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: I wasn't around 10 years ago and before, and to be frank I don't care what it was like then. I know what I've experienced since I've been here and Belmont is a better game.
Okay that first sentence. Thats all I need to see, you don't know what you are talking about and need to be quiet before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
I said that because I knew it would get all of you fired up. I'll clarify it for you. What I mean is I don't care how good a rivalry was in years past if it is not the same today. Maybe Chatt and App were hard fought battles in the past, but I think we've been much more frightened by Belmont recently. Which excited this board more last year? The double digit convincing victory at App St or the drilling we gave Belmont in the Dome? I think it was the Belmont game. When we beat App or Chatt, no one gets too excited. It's expected. When we finally conquered Belmont last year there was a buzz on campus. There is no similar buzz when we beat a SoCon team except on this board.
My main thing is I feel like this board mostly is stuck in the past where (as with all nostalgic memories) you all remember it as better than it actually was.
Pitt, you compared the two seasons by the basketball team. Mullins was talking about the entire athletic dept. However, this board could care less about the entire athletic dept. All that matters to the majority of you all is the men's basketball team and a losing football team that is now defunct.
I don't dismiss the efforts of teams in the past. I appreciate the history of the Mister Jennings team and am proud that ETSU is known to compete hard in the NCAA tourney. However, I'm pretty sure Jacksonville fans don't sit and complain all the time about how they're not in the Final Four every year because they did it once. That's how you guys seem to act. You're just not grounded on the reality of college athletics in 2010 vs. 20 years ago and how different it is.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - LetsgoBucs - 01-06-2010 01:37 PM
(01-05-2010 07:35 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote: Point is, you COULD get national prestige out of the SoCon, and much moreso than any other conference ETSU has ever played in.
In 2004 when ETSU went to the NCAAs, Sports Illustrated picked them to make the Sweet 16. When they made it last year, nobody thought they could be a player in the tourney.
I would say the main reason no one gave us credit last year was a weak out of conference schedule, plus key conference losses, as well as losing 4 of our last 7 conference games going into the conference tourney. How you're playing at the end of the season is usually a factor when they seed the tourney and we were not playing well. We had some terrible conference losses as well. (Don't say that wouldn't be a possibility in the SoCon.If we were in the SoCon and lost to UNC-G and Furman that would have hurt us as well.) Our own lackluster showing throughout the season caused us to not garner any attention. I don't think that was because of our conference.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - PittsburghBucs - 01-06-2010 02:02 PM
Early on in my career I was chastised once for speaking about an "indirect" victory by another sportswriter.
Let me show you how disingenuous this is. South Carolina beat Ole Miss in football this year. Ole Miss, in turn, beat Tennessee. Really badly- something like 42-17.
Ergo- South Carolina is a better team than Tennessee- right?
That explains why the Vols routed the Gamecocks when the two teams played on Halloween.
The ETSU program has fallen, as you stated. They are in the A-Sun now. This is all you need to know.
I'm not surprised there would have been a buzz on campus after ETSU beat Belmont and moreso than UTC. I remember when the football issue was open for discussion a student mentioned "Uh, hasn't the A-Sun been good to ETSU?"
For this guy, who evidently had not gone to school when ETSU was a SoCon member, the Bucs had always been an A-Sun team.
This is why I feel you can't rely too much on the students. An ETSU basketball game will have, at most, what, 500 students show up? That's 1/7 of the total attendance.
So 6/7 of the crowd are legitimate fans who are there to stay. A student base is always changing and will only be there for four years.
More points-
This board actually has had posts on other sports. I, for one, do care about ETSU baseball. I've had personal messages from a former ETSU women's basketball player thanking me for my support.
We've had posters talk about tennis matches they've attended, we've had posters brag on soccer, we've discussed golf. One poster said something along the lines of "ETSU is known for cross country," which surprised me, since I had no idea ANY school was known for cross country.
Sounds to me like a tough event to attend.
We do not harp on these sports because frankly, they are not as popular on the college level as men's basketball and football.
And this again shows you the flaws of the ETSU athletic department, and how far they have fallen, when you get these people in the administration who seemingly think they can stuff soccer down our throat and we'll just happily swallow it and the interest will be there on a par to the men's basketball team.
If you can't understand the flaw in that, you might as well just go home because you're not going to have any credibility outside of the offices in The Vault of Victory.
I think it is flawed to try to compare an all-sports trophy in a lesser league with, say, even finishing No. 2 in the country in rifle.
But, if you want to play that game, ETSU did win the All-Sports Trophy in the SoCon in 1983, and certainly the SoCon is a superior conference than the A-Sun.
So any way you slice it, Mullins is lying. 2007 was NOT the greatest year in the history of the program.
I had a three hour conversation with the officials at Jacksonville and they told me that many of their fans did actually harp and complain that their program wasn't what it was in 1970. Dolphins fans are upset at a decision made 20-25 years ago to deemphasize athletics, resulting in the program falling from the Sun Belt (which was a much better basketball conference then than it is now- it would have been somewhat comparable to C-USA now) in the late '80s to the A-Sun.
They are now trying to recover and rebuild.
Sound familiar?
Finally, this past NCAA team was one of the weakest, if not THE weakest, such tourney teams in the history of the program.
But regardless, a 3rd place regular season finisher winning the A-Sun tournament is simply never going to get a good seed. Conference DOES have a factor.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - ETSUfan1 - 01-06-2010 02:12 PM
UTC was a 16 seed after not winning the regular season title in the SoCon last year.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - Goldfinger - 01-06-2010 02:14 PM
UTC didn't have twenty wins. They had sixteen or seventeen with a three day tournament. (or was it four in their case?) The ONLY reason UTC goes to the NCAA last year was b/c the tournament was at the roundhouse.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - GoBucsGo - 01-06-2010 02:15 PM
OK - the Bucs won the all-sports trophy in the SoCon in 1983. 1983: I believe Duran Duran had just hit the music scene. What was the SoCon like back then? The same as it is now? Better? How?
The past NCAA team was one of the weakest? Really? How do you make that comparison? I mean, in 2003 and 2004, ETSU lost in the first round playing a #3 seed tough, ultimately losing. Last year's team played arguably one of the top 4 teams in the entire country in a tough game. YES I KNOW PITT - the final score was 10 points, but we know that was padded by free throws made by Pitt @ the end. Had the Bucs hit their free throws, we would be talking about one of the biggest upsets in NCAA history. Even Pigram & Tiggs said after the game that they didn't even play their best game, & I seem to remember one of them at least mentioning that 'if we played like this even in our league, we would have lost.'
Based on that comparison, your argument doesn't add up.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - Goldfinger - 01-06-2010 02:27 PM
Go, your grasping at straws. I'll be the first to trumpet last year's team....but there is no way in hell you can compare them to the NCAA teams of the past.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - GoBucsGo - 01-06-2010 02:28 PM
Sure.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - PittsburghBucs - 01-06-2010 02:59 PM
The ETSU-Pitt game was ETSU's weakest showing in the NCAAs since 1990.
The SoCon in 1983 featured Western Carolina, which played for a national championship in football, and Chattanooga, which was ranked higher than eventual champ N.C. State in the AP men's basketball poll's final edition.
NEXT!
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - GoBucsGo - 01-06-2010 04:11 PM
I thought you mentioned that ETSU was THE weakest NCAA team. Now, it's the weakest team since 1990, so therefore it's not THE weakest.
I guess at least one member of the SoCon was good in a couple of sports in 1983, but obviously not good enough in anything else to win the all sports trophy. That proves nothing.
The logic is still flawed that just because ETSU is in a weaker league (slightly weaker at that) that the athletic program is in worse shape. Why are the Bucs 5-2 vs. the SoCon in the last 3 years? If the team had really gone down hill, wouldn't the Bucs be 0-7?
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - Goldfinger - 01-06-2010 04:31 PM
Last year's team was not as good as the 1990 team.
RE: CofC 82 - #9 North Carolina 79 - Final - Bucster - 01-06-2010 04:43 PM
Pitt said weakest showing in the NCAA, not weakest team throughout the whole year, and I agree. The 1990 team had the weakest showing in the NCAA tournament than any other ETSU team, including last years team. But if you are talking about the team throughout the whole season then yes the 1990 team was better.