(11-11-2013 11:23 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 09:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ok Milton Friedman, who has a more deregulated economy than the US?

Singapore
Switzerland
Australia
New Zealand
Chile
Hong Kong (if you separate it from China)

Those are the slam dunks, and there are at least a handful more you could make an argument for. Before you counter with a "But Singapore's housing..." or "Australia's minimum wage..." think about our economy as a whole.

We have one of the most highly regulated financial systems in the world (and that was true even before the regulatory behemoth that is Dodd-Frank). We have one of the most highly regulated health care systems in the world (and that was true even before the 10,000+ pages of Obamacare regulations). We have a central bank with an $85 billion per month, open-ended quantitative easing program. Bank bailouts. Auto bailouts. FATCA. Corporate and economic espionage through the NSA. Numerous regulatory agencies, armed like paramilitary groups, who can seize all of your assets, even if they never charge you with a crime. Which part of that says laissez-faire to you?

I think we all know why leftists keep pushing this lie though. Because deep down, you know your centrally-planned nightmare is going to end in disaster, and you want to be able to falsely blame the "free market" again.

Singapore is a nanny state on steroids...100k license to drive a car in Central Singapore. Taxes out the rear end. On everything. 10 percent property taxes. Mandatory purchases too.
Australia's marginal tax rate (including health insurance) is 45% and kicks in at a very low rate.
Switzerland's tax rate is slightly lower (including VAT) than the USA but they have crazy laws that are enforced banning doing laundry in your apartment on a Sunday (Zurich) and even sitting on your balcony at night. Their currency is grossly overvalued and distorts their economy greatly.
Hong Kong is effectively a special tax zone of China. The clock is ticking till those 50 years are up.

You don't have much as far as other nations go. Singapore, Dubai (which you missed), and Switzerland are banking societies that live off the tax mitigation/money laundering of other states. The don't create value, but siphon it. Its not replicable for a big economy or if many nations try the same thing.

Singapore and Dubai? Criticize the government, even mildly, and get thrown in jail. Hong Kong and Singapore both have governments that pick "winners and losers" to a much greater extent than the USA.

My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

(11-11-2013 10:10 AM)DragonLair Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 09:40 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Wonder what reason Obama will come up with to take over Wal-mart?

They harbor to many tea party terrorists!

Would be funny, and is, except for the fact that the Obama White House actually believes crap like that.

So what will the excuse be when Daka simply closes up shop? Only a matter of time, I hope that Sony plasma holds up, there may well not be another one when you go looking again.

(11-10-2013 04:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Maduro is trying, poorly, to rein in the cost problems caused by his own idiotic policies. But this wont work. Actually the only thing that will work is for VZ to let its currency float. Maduro can't do so without plunging VZ into a sharp recession.

It is a scary thought that Venezuela's economy has anywhere left to recede to.

(11-10-2013 05:49 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 05:45 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 05:30 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I use to live in Venezuela too!

I was in Merida from 92-93. Where and when were you down there

Margarita 2004.

Interesting, in that we own a small plot of land in Margarita island, to the extent that Maduro allows "ownership". As I understand it, it is very nice there, but we've never visited.

(11-10-2013 11:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 10:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 10:48 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I can see this in the Democrat Party platform in 2020 or 2024. Their candidate will stand outside a shopping mall in Chicago or Denver, bemoaning the "obscene profits" of Macy's and JC Penny.
At first there will be a bipartisan committee to investigate. Then the legislation will be proposed.
The left will never rest.

They did that with health insurance and what happened? Prices went up.

They'll do it again--and get the same result.

Ironic, in that (1) it was a double post, but (2) the last serious attempt at price controls (pre-Obama) was by Richard Nixon, if I'm not mistaken (and if you disregard the housing market as a swag at price controls). Ironic, but true nevertheless.

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 11:23 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 09:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ok Milton Friedman, who has a more deregulated economy than the US?

Singapore
Switzerland
Australia
New Zealand
Chile
Hong Kong (if you separate it from China)

Those are the slam dunks, and there are at least a handful more you could make an argument for. Before you counter with a "But Singapore's housing..." or "Australia's minimum wage..." think about our economy as a whole.

We have one of the most highly regulated financial systems in the world (and that was true even before the regulatory behemoth that is Dodd-Frank). We have one of the most highly regulated health care systems in the world (and that was true even before the 10,000+ pages of Obamacare regulations). We have a central bank with an $85 billion per month, open-ended quantitative easing program. Bank bailouts. Auto bailouts. FATCA. Corporate and economic espionage through the NSA. Numerous regulatory agencies, armed like paramilitary groups, who can seize all of your assets, even if they never charge you with a crime. Which part of that says laissez-faire to you?

I think we all know why leftists keep pushing this lie though. Because deep down, you know your centrally-planned nightmare is going to end in disaster, and you want to be able to falsely blame the "free market" again.

Singapore is a nanny state on steroids...100k license to drive a car in Central Singapore. Taxes out the rear end. On everything. 10 percent property taxes. Mandatory purchases too.
Australia's marginal tax rate (including health insurance) is 45% and kicks in at a very low rate.
Switzerland's tax rate is slightly lower (including VAT) than the USA but they have crazy laws that are enforced banning doing laundry in your apartment on a Sunday (Zurich) and even sitting on your balcony at night. Their currency is grossly overvalued and distorts their economy greatly.
Hong Kong is effectively a special tax zone of China. The clock is ticking till those 50 years are up.

I never said any of them were libertarian utopias. All you did was name some things that are still less restricting to economic freedom than the U.S. Singapore's "nanny state" has more to do with social policy than economics, which is what we're talking about. They still have no capital gains tax, low corporate taxes, etc. It's laughable that you name crazy laws about laundry in Zurich as a reason for them to be less economically free than us. Have you seen some of the laws still on the books in the U.S.? China is effectively our plantation overseer. All they have to do is throw the more than one trillion dollars of U.S. debt they hold in our face and they could bring our economy to its knees.

Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:You don't have much as far as other nations go. Singapore, Dubai (which you missed), and Switzerland are banking societies that live off the tax mitigation/money laundering of other states. The don't create value, but siphon it. Its not replicable for a big economy or if many nations try the same thing.

I didn't name Dubai because it isn't a country or commonly separated as an autonomous zone the way that HK is. Although you saying I "missed" it seems to be your admission that it is a more economically free environment than the U.S. Those places don't do anything illegal as you dishonestly accuse them, they just create a more favorable banking jurisdiction than we do. It's not their fault that we keep greedily chasing good money away, and they don't have any obligation to us to reject people trying to find a better environment to store their wealth.

Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:Singapore and Dubai? Criticize the government, even mildly, and get thrown in jail.

Criticize the government here, you just get the IRS breathing down your neck, a DOJ subpoena, an Espionage Act prosecution, and/or a wiretap from the NSA (okay, you get the NSA spying for free). Again, the conversation was about economics. Stop floating out red herrings.

Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:Hong Kong and Singapore both have governments that pick "winners and losers" to a much greater extent than the USA.

That's not true. If it is, then please try to provide a single greater example of "picking winners and losers" than Bear Stearns/Lehman Brothers.

Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Oh, funny how it changes to "large" economy now. That isn't what you said at first. Even arbitrary notion of what a "large economy" is aside, you don't have a point and never did. That's why it doesn't stand. You only have pollyannaism.

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute (Canada) rank the US on the edge of, or outside the top-10.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
http://www.freetheworld.com/2013/EFW2013-exec.sum.pdf

Heritage Foundation Wrote:Top 10 Countries

rank country
1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 Australia
4 New Zealand
5 Switzerland
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Mauritius
9 Denmark
10 United States

Fraser Institute Wrote:Top-rated countries
Hong Kong and Singapore, once again, occupy the top two positions. The other
nations in the top ten are New Zealand, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates,
Mauritius, Finland, Bahrain, Canada, and Australia.
Other major countries
The rankings of some other major countries are: United Kingdom (12th), United
States (17th), Germany (19th), Japan (33rd), South Korea (33rd), France (40th), Italy
(83rd), Mexico (94th), Russia (101st), Brazil (102nd), India (111th), and China (123rd).

If you have rankings from a liberal or other site, it would be worth comparing them and the criteria that they use. Since liberals have little stake on which countries have economic freedom, color me skeptical as to whether such ratings exist.

(11-11-2013 01:52 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute (Canada) rank the US on the edge of, or outside the top-10.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
http://www.freetheworld.com/2013/EFW2013-exec.sum.pdf

Heritage Foundation Wrote:Top 10 Countries

rank country
1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 Australia
4 New Zealand
5 Switzerland
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Mauritius
9 Denmark
10 United States

Fraser Institute Wrote:Top-rated countries
Hong Kong and Singapore, once again, occupy the top two positions. The other
nations in the top ten are New Zealand, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates,
Mauritius, Finland, Bahrain, Canada, and Australia.
Other major countries
The rankings of some other major countries are: United Kingdom (12th), United
States (17th), Germany (19th), Japan (33rd), South Korea (33rd), France (40th), Italy
(83rd), Mexico (94th), Russia (101st), Brazil (102nd), India (111th), and China (123rd).

If you have rankings from a liberal or other site, it would be worth comparing them and the criteria that they use. Since liberals have little stake on which countries have economic freedom, color me skeptical as to whether such ratings exist.

Why would a liberal think tank provide rankings for something they openly despise? Cue the leftists to discount the rankings because they're from conservative/libertarian organizations without providing how they'd amend the methodology or acknowledging that the U.S.' decline started under W.

Besides, Tom already cited bizarre laundry laws in Zurich. Isn't that scientific enough for you?

(11-11-2013 01:52 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute (Canada) rank the US on the edge of, or outside the top-10.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
http://www.freetheworld.com/2013/EFW2013-exec.sum.pdf

Heritage Foundation Wrote:Top 10 Countries

rank country
1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 Australia
4 New Zealand
5 Switzerland
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Mauritius
9 Denmark
10 United States

Fraser Institute Wrote:Top-rated countries
Hong Kong and Singapore, once again, occupy the top two positions. The other
nations in the top ten are New Zealand, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates,
Mauritius, Finland, Bahrain, Canada, and Australia.
Other major countries
The rankings of some other major countries are: United Kingdom (12th), United
States (17th), Germany (19th), Japan (33rd), South Korea (33rd), France (40th), Italy
(83rd), Mexico (94th), Russia (101st), Brazil (102nd), India (111th), and China (123rd).

If you have rankings from a liberal or other site, it would be worth comparing them and the criteria that they use. Since liberals have little stake on which countries have economic freedom, color me skeptical as to whether such ratings exist.

Both institutes are far right wing groups.

But you wanna pay taxes in Canada or Australia or Denmark? Are you crazy? How about paying means-based parking tickets like in Finland (the head of Nokia got a 300,000 euro speeding ticket)?

New Zealand has tax rates comparable, if not higher than the USA.

Throwing Australia, Finland, Denmark, and Canada out for obvious reasons (a much higher effective tax rate). You are left with a few unfree nations with limited freedoms of elections, speech, and rule of law like Hong Kong, the UAE, Bahrain, and Singapore.

(11-11-2013 01:56 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:52 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute (Canada) rank the US on the edge of, or outside the top-10.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
http://www.freetheworld.com/2013/EFW2013-exec.sum.pdf

Heritage Foundation Wrote:Top 10 Countries

rank country
1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 Australia
4 New Zealand
5 Switzerland
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Mauritius
9 Denmark
10 United States

Fraser Institute Wrote:Top-rated countries
Hong Kong and Singapore, once again, occupy the top two positions. The other
nations in the top ten are New Zealand, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates,
Mauritius, Finland, Bahrain, Canada, and Australia.
Other major countries
The rankings of some other major countries are: United Kingdom (12th), United
States (17th), Germany (19th), Japan (33rd), South Korea (33rd), France (40th), Italy
(83rd), Mexico (94th), Russia (101st), Brazil (102nd), India (111th), and China (123rd).

If you have rankings from a liberal or other site, it would be worth comparing them and the criteria that they use. Since liberals have little stake on which countries have economic freedom, color me skeptical as to whether such ratings exist.

Why would a liberal think tank provide rankings for something they openly despise? Cue the leftists to discount the rankings because they're from conservative/libertarian organizations without providing how they'd amend the methodology or acknowledging that the U.S.' decline started under W.

Besides, Tom already cited bizarre laundry laws in Zurich. Isn't that scientific enough for you?

Oh I think a list of enforced regulations banning people from doing their laundry on Sunday or taking a shower at night in your own apartment is relevant to a discussion of free economies.

What do you even mean when you say we are the least regulated, or most LF, nation in the world?

Are you talking anti-trust issues? If you are then you're wrong.
Are you talking financial market regulation? Stupid question, what do you mean, in what area?

It's an idiotic premise.

(11-11-2013 01:04 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  So what will the excuse be when Daka simply closes up shop? Only a matter of time, I hope that Sony plasma holds up, there may well not be another one when you go looking again.

Daka will close up shop. Someone else will open up a shop after the VZ government gives them access to dollars at a rate of 6.5 Fuerte Bolivares to get inventory. Then people will throng the store, buying everything. Then the store will either have no inventory or the will have to sell at the real rate (around 60 to the dollar) in order to buy replacement inventory, just like Daka did. So Maduro will seize that store too.

This will continue for a while.

(11-11-2013 02:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:52 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute (Canada) rank the US on the edge of, or outside the top-10.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
http://www.freetheworld.com/2013/EFW2013-exec.sum.pdf

Heritage Foundation Wrote:Top 10 Countries

rank country
1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 Australia
4 New Zealand
5 Switzerland
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Mauritius
9 Denmark
10 United States

Fraser Institute Wrote:Top-rated countries
Hong Kong and Singapore, once again, occupy the top two positions. The other
nations in the top ten are New Zealand, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates,
Mauritius, Finland, Bahrain, Canada, and Australia.
Other major countries
The rankings of some other major countries are: United Kingdom (12th), United
States (17th), Germany (19th), Japan (33rd), South Korea (33rd), France (40th), Italy
(83rd), Mexico (94th), Russia (101st), Brazil (102nd), India (111th), and China (123rd).

If you have rankings from a liberal or other site, it would be worth comparing them and the criteria that they use. Since liberals have little stake on which countries have economic freedom, color me skeptical as to whether such ratings exist.

Both institutes are far right wing groups.

No, Fraser is like CATO - a libertarian think tank. There's a difference. This is a lie on your part.

Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:But you wanna pay taxes in Canada or Australia or Denmark? Are you crazy? How about paying means-based parking tickets like in Finland (the head of Nokia got a 300,000 euro speeding ticket)?

New Zealand has tax rates comparable, if not higher than the USA.

Throwing Australia, Finland, Denmark, and Canada out for obvious reasons (a much higher effective tax rate).

You are taking one metric (taxes) and trying to disqualify countries based on it. Of course, that could also easily be done with the U.S. No one said that any one country was #1 across the board. It's telling how dishonest you have to be to try to make your argument.

Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:You are left with a few unfree nations with limited freedoms of elections, speech, and rule of law like Hong Kong, the UAE, Bahrain, and Singapore.

I know you didn't just bring up "rule of law" in defense of the country that drone bombs its own citizens without a trial, spies on all electronic communication without a warrant (or even reasonable cause to be suspicious), seizes billions in assets from its citizens each year without having to ever charge them with a crime, etc. You are living in the past and desperately need to wake up to the reality of the U.S. today - not the idealized version you still have stuck in your head. That America is dead, and you helped kill it.

(11-11-2013 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:56 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:52 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. The USA is the most free nation on earth and the most lassez faire large economy on planet Earth.

Both the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute (Canada) rank the US on the edge of, or outside the top-10.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
http://www.freetheworld.com/2013/EFW2013-exec.sum.pdf

Heritage Foundation Wrote:Top 10 Countries

rank country
1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 Australia
4 New Zealand
5 Switzerland
6 Canada
7 Chile
8 Mauritius
9 Denmark
10 United States

Fraser Institute Wrote:Top-rated countries
Hong Kong and Singapore, once again, occupy the top two positions. The other
nations in the top ten are New Zealand, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates,
Mauritius, Finland, Bahrain, Canada, and Australia.
Other major countries
The rankings of some other major countries are: United Kingdom (12th), United
States (17th), Germany (19th), Japan (33rd), South Korea (33rd), France (40th), Italy
(83rd), Mexico (94th), Russia (101st), Brazil (102nd), India (111th), and China (123rd).

If you have rankings from a liberal or other site, it would be worth comparing them and the criteria that they use. Since liberals have little stake on which countries have economic freedom, color me skeptical as to whether such ratings exist.

Why would a liberal think tank provide rankings for something they openly despise? Cue the leftists to discount the rankings because they're from conservative/libertarian organizations without providing how they'd amend the methodology or acknowledging that the U.S.' decline started under W.

Besides, Tom already cited bizarre laundry laws in Zurich. Isn't that scientific enough for you?

Oh I think a list of enforced regulations banning people from doing their laundry on Sunday or taking a shower at night in your own apartment is relevant to a discussion of free economies.

Then the U.S. can't possible be the freest, because it's illegal to eat an orange in your bathtub in California.



See how stupid your argument is now?

(11-11-2013 02:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Both institutes are far right wing groups.

Not an unpredictable (or entirely unreasonable) response, hence my challenge to provide some source other than yourself. More importantly, it was a challenge to provide fixed criteria on which to base your claim, rather than allowing you to dismiss each individual country using a different criterion in each case...

(11-11-2013 02:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  But you wanna pay taxes in Canada or Australia or Denmark? Are you crazy? How about paying means-based parking tickets like in Finland (the head of Nokia got a 300,000 euro speeding ticket)?

New Zealand has tax rates comparable, if not higher than the USA.

Throwing Australia, Finland, Denmark, and Canada out for obvious reasons (a much higher effective tax rate). You are left with a few unfree nations with limited freedoms of elections, speech, and rule of law like Hong Kong, the UAE, Bahrain, and Singapore.

(11-10-2013 04:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You see, Venezuela has two effective exchange rates, an official er at about 7 to the dollar and another at around 60 to the dollar. People who cannot exchange money at the 7 to 1 rate have been buying anything that might store value like crazy, driving prices up to ridiculous prices. For example, the Nissan dealer in Caracas has not had any inventory in 2 years (all cars are sold years in advance), plane tickets cost 3 grand to leave VZ to anywhere, and consumer durables like TV's and washing machines go for 4 to 5 times what they go for anywhere else.

I was reading about this the other day. Interesting thing about the airline flights is that, due to currency arbitrage, flights out of VZ are booked months in advance, but many planes are flying half empty. In fact travel agents are telling would be travelors that it's easier to take a boat to some Caribean island and catch a flight there than it is to fly out of VZ.

I wonder If the state gives the corps free stuff to keep up with the demand..

(11-12-2013 12:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You see, Venezuela has two effective exchange rates, an official er at about 7 to the dollar and another at around 60 to the dollar. People who cannot exchange money at the 7 to 1 rate have been buying anything that might store value like crazy, driving prices up to ridiculous prices. For example, the Nissan dealer in Caracas has not had any inventory in 2 years (all cars are sold years in advance), plane tickets cost 3 grand to leave VZ to anywhere, and consumer durables like TV's and washing machines go for 4 to 5 times what they go for anywhere else.

I was reading about this the other day. Interesting thing about the airline flights is that, due to currency arbitrage, flights out of VZ are booked months in advance, but many planes are flying half empty. In fact travel agents are telling would be travelors that it's easier to take a boat to some Caribean island and catch a flight there than it is to fly out of VZ.

If you do that from Venezuela, you don't get the right to change money at the official rate (well you do, but its much less than the 3 grand you can change if going to the USA), so USA-AUA then a boat to VZ is much cheaper. So is flying into Cucuta, walking across the border and flying on to CCS or Maricaibo from San Antonio de Tachira

(11-12-2013 02:48 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-12-2013 12:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You see, Venezuela has two effective exchange rates, an official er at about 7 to the dollar and another at around 60 to the dollar. People who cannot exchange money at the 7 to 1 rate have been buying anything that might store value like crazy, driving prices up to ridiculous prices. For example, the Nissan dealer in Caracas has not had any inventory in 2 years (all cars are sold years in advance), plane tickets cost 3 grand to leave VZ to anywhere, and consumer durables like TV's and washing machines go for 4 to 5 times what they go for anywhere else.

I was reading about this the other day. Interesting thing about the airline flights is that, due to currency arbitrage, flights out of VZ are booked months in advance, but many planes are flying half empty. In fact travel agents are telling would be travelors that it's easier to take a boat to some Caribean island and catch a flight there than it is to fly out of VZ.

If you do that from Venezuela, you don't get the right to change money at the official rate (well you do, but its much less than the 3 grand you can change if going to the USA), so USA-AUA then a boat to VZ is much cheaper. So is flying into Cucuta, walking across the border and flying on to CCS or Maricaibo from San Antonio de Tachira

Based on the article I read, folks in VZ are getting folks not in VZ to purchase the tickets and then wire them the $$$. That's the reason the "full" flights are half empty. At least that's what the article said. Evidently there's a special currency provision for travelors where, with a valid airline ticket, travelors can exchange up to $3,000 at the govt rate.

Unfortunately...Nations tend to steal bad ideas from each other. Watch out Best Buy!!!!