(11-07-2013 12:03 PM)goofus Wrote:  Minnesota is the state that really confuses me. Only 1 div. 1 school in the whole state and it has 6M people.

I think it has to do with population density. Minnesota runs about 31st in population density and as you can imagine, most Minnesotans live relatively close to the Goofers in the Twin Cities. There are just not large populations Out-State, as we call people from outside the Cities and the ring suburbs.

Considering it is the 12th largest state in size and about the middle in total population, there is really not much else in the State outside of Minneapolis-St. Paul.

Fun facts: The Twin Cities is smallest metropolitan area in the country to have all four professional sports franchises, and Minneapolis itself is only the 47th largest city in the country, being smaller than such exotic destinations as El Paso, Louisville, Omaha and Mesa. Certainly combining Minneapolis and St.Paul as one city makes it much bigger, but still smaller than Charlotte, Ft. Worth or San Jose. The airport is only the 16th busiest in the country which may sound impressive, but a lot of that is flight transfers from Asia, Europe and to small places in the Upper Midwest, as opposed to Minnesota being a destination.

Perhaps a very small case could be made for Minnesota-Duluth to go D1 in all sports and claim that coveted second Division One School Status. They do have a rather successful Athletics history at UMD in Hockey and Football, but only 11,000 some odd students and are miles off the beaten D1 conference path. If UMD was located in southern MN it would make a nice MAC school, IMHO.

(11-07-2013 09:13 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 09:00 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  South Florida is fine. Simply because its a distinct region of the country pretty much everyone is familiar with (similar to southern california). If they dont want to change their name, they really dont have to.



ECU is more problematic.

North Carolina Tech would be best but they aren't a Technical school at all.

"Greenville" (the equivalent of Auburn or Clemson) still sounds like a small town and therefore small time.

Perhaps the route would be to go like Rutgers or Purdue and choose an important person in the school's history like a president or major donor that made the school possible.

East Carolina will always sound like a small time directional school ala Eastern Illinois or Eastern Michigan and be a hindrance to their ambitions.

The irony, of course, is that USF isn't actually located in South Florida at all. Tampa is very much Central Florida (geographically, culturally, etc.). South Florida is Miami up to the Palm Beach area on the Atlantic and then Naples/Marco up to Sarasota on the Gulf (plus the Keys).

There are interesting politics about why USF isn't actually in South Florida. It was originally intended to be, as the South Florida region was the largest population center without a pubic university when this was going down in the 1950s. The school was legislated into existence and appropriated for, but the University of Miami, only about 25 years young at the time, lobbied Tallahassee to prevent competition from coming in, and the campus was relocated across the Alley, name intact. Miami only delayed the inevitable for about a decade, as FIU was later established in the city, but it was originally that was supposed to be USF.

(11-07-2013 11:24 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 09:13 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  South Florida is Miami up to the Palm Beach area on the Atlantic and then Naples/Marco up to Sarasota on the Gulf (plus the Keys).

The most commonly used designation of south Florida is the 3 counties in southeast Florida (Dade - Miami, Broward - Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach - West Palm Beach). Naples (Collier) and Fort Myers (Lee) are almost never considered south Florida by those who actually live in south Florida: They are southwest Florida. And the Keys are the Keys and not usually considered south Florida as well.

That's an expert opinion on the matter.

=================

What about FIU?

Should they change their name to Miami State University?
University of Florida, Miami?
State University of Florida at Miami?
Miami State University of Florida?
Miami Florida State University?

(I didn't come up with any of these names, for the record.)

I think it's a fairly frequent topic at most of the FBS publics in Florida. Or at least amongst their fans.

I hope this doesn't get back to our board, we already have a year long thread on this topic.

I can understand dropping the "Teacher's College" designation but beyond that it seems like every few decades a new, "better" branding naming style becomes fashionable. Schools that jump on this are generally looking for a quick fix to shake some perceived stigma. But the only reason why these naming styles are fashionable is because schools put significant efforts into upgrading their academic standing, others just simply want to reap what these institutions have sowed.

(11-07-2013 09:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I've really come to appreciate that in VA the Div I public schools not named UVA or Va Tech aren't Directional U or City U. They're all pretty much named after historical persons (James Madison, George Mason, William & Mary) or are related to the State without a direction involved such as Old Dominon (a nickname of the Virginia) and Virginia Commonwealth University (which I guess if you think about would be our State U but since VA is a commonwealth instead of a state you get VCU instead of VSU).

I think this helps each school have a sense of identity instead of UVA-Richmond, UVA-Norfolk, etc.

Virginia has a "State U." Virginia State University is in Petersburg.

(11-07-2013 02:41 PM)MRD92 Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 09:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I've really come to appreciate that in VA the Div I public schools not named UVA or Va Tech aren't Directional U or City U. They're all pretty much named after historical persons (James Madison, George Mason, William & Mary) or are related to the State without a direction involved such as Old Dominon (a nickname of the Virginia) and Virginia Commonwealth University (which I guess if you think about would be our State U but since VA is a commonwealth instead of a state you get VCU instead of VSU).

I think this helps each school have a sense of identity instead of UVA-Richmond, UVA-Norfolk, etc.

Virginia has a "State U." Virginia State University is in Petersburg.

I know, I just never really thought of VCU like that until I was typing it.

(11-07-2013 09:13 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 09:00 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  South Florida is fine. Simply because its a distinct region of the country pretty much everyone is familiar with (similar to southern california). If they dont want to change their name, they really dont have to.



ECU is more problematic.

North Carolina Tech would be best but they aren't a Technical school at all.

"Greenville" (the equivalent of Auburn or Clemson) still sounds like a small town and therefore small time.

Perhaps the route would be to go like Rutgers or Purdue and choose an important person in the school's history like a president or major donor that made the school possible.

East Carolina will always sound like a small time directional school ala Eastern Illinois or Eastern Michigan and be a hindrance to their ambitions.

The irony, of course, is that USF isn't actually located in South Florida at all. Tampa is very much Central Florida (geographically, culturally, etc.). South Florida is Miami up to the Palm Beach area on the Atlantic and then Naples/Marco up to Sarasota on the Gulf (plus the Keys).

While not in what most people call South Florida, USF IS located south of the geographical center of Florida. Look it up.

USF doesn't need to change name. USF brand is big enough now where it's not needed. Changing to Tampa (if it were even allowed) would provide little to no benefit. The USF brand has surpassed the point of needing a name change to upgrade it's status (and I would argue UCF also). It wouldn't be a detriment, for example, if the B12 wanted to add them, IMO.

I think part of that is because Florida is a big enough state. Being the University of part of a massive state is nothing to sneeze at. Being the University of Southeastern Central Wyoming is a problem.

(11-07-2013 03:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think part of that is because Florida is a big enough state. Being the University of part of a massive state is nothing to sneeze at. Being the University of Southeastern Central Wyoming is a problem.

True, and part of it, as someone mentioned, is that "South Florida" just sound bigger time, than for example "Western Michigan", in part due to the massive South Florida name/market/moniker (even though USF isn't technically located in south Florida). The other reason, as I mentioned is there is a lot of brand equity and name recognition in USF (and UCF). USF has 9 or 10 years in a BCS conference and many big wins with the USF name under it's belt. UCF has numerous conference championships and big wins with the UCF name under it's belt. When is the last time WMU or EMU was in the top 25, had a major win, or made any noise at the FBS level.

There was a university created by the Louisiana state legislature and named by it the University of Louisiana during the last part of the nineteenth century. Paul Tulane offered the university a large endowment and it became a private university with his last name added to the school name now know officially as Tulane University of Louisiana. There is a regional tier two academic community college like state school with a severe inferiority complex attempting to usurp the name even though the University of a Louisiana at Lafayette is on each of its diplomas and it attempts unsuccessfully to act like it is the flagship public university of the state even though everyone knows LSU Agricultural and Mechanical is.

Many of us at UNC Charlotte would love to get rid of the "UNC".

(11-07-2013 04:26 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Many of us at UNC Charlotte would love to get rid of the "UNC".

UNC has been itching to get rid of "At Chapel Hill" since it was slapped on them in the 1931 merger with NC A&M College (NC State) and NC Women's College (UNC-Greensboro).

(11-07-2013 09:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I've really come to appreciate that in VA the Div I public schools not named UVA or Va Tech aren't Directional U or City U. They're all pretty much named after historical persons (James Madison, George Mason, William & Mary) or are related to the State without a direction involved such as Old Dominon (a nickname of the Virginia) and Virginia Commonwealth University (which I guess if you think about would be our State U but since VA is a commonwealth instead of a state you get VCU instead of VSU).

I think this helps each school have a sense of identity instead of UVA-Richmond, UVA-Norfolk, etc.

The interesting thing is that both ODU and VCU were originally part of W&M and were called the Norfolk and Richmond Divisions of W&M at one time. The Norfolk Division changed to Old Dominion college in 1962 and ODU in 1969. The Richmond Division returned to the name of Richmond Professional Institute, before it merged with the Medical College of Virginia to form VCU in 1968.

George Mason was founded in 1956 as the Fairfax campus of UVA. The name was changed to George Mason College of the University of Virginia in in 1959. The college was separated from UVA in 1972, and renamed George Mason University. Now Mason has 4 campuses in NoVa.

JMU was originally the The State Normal and Industrial School for Women, and became Madison College in 1938. The school become coed in 1966 and became James Madison University in 1976

Va Tech was actually founded as Virginia A&M in 1872. In 1896, the Schools name was changed to Virginia Agriculture and Mechanical College and Polytechnic Institute. This was pretty quickly shortened by all users to VPI, and officially in 1944. In 1970 it officially became Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University.

(11-07-2013 01:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Texas has enough FBS schools to be its own 12 team conference right now with another 2-4 (depending on who you ask) harboring FBS ambitions

Ohio, however, has 8 state schools (+ 1 wanting to move up).

Texas has 4 privates, 3 newbie state schools and 5 long time state schools. And other than UT/Texas State/UTSA, the state schools are pretty spread out.

(11-07-2013 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 01:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Texas has enough FBS schools to be its own 12 team conference right now with another 2-4 (depending on who you ask) harboring FBS ambitions

Ohio, however, has 8 state schools (+ 1 wanting to move up).

Texas has 4 privates, 3 newbie state schools and 5 long time state schools. And other than UT/Texas State/UTSA, the state schools are pretty spread out.

whats crazy is.......

texas has 12 FBS & 5 FCS schools

the entire northeast has 10 FBS & 29 FCS schools.

just goes to show how seriously texas takes their sports teams

It really has nothing to do with sports teams. Large public universities are just the rule outside the northeast.

(11-07-2013 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 01:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Texas has enough FBS schools to be its own 12 team conference right now with another 2-4 (depending on who you ask) harboring FBS ambitions

Ohio, however, has 8 state schools (+ 1 wanting to move up).

Who? Cleveland State?

(11-07-2013 05:22 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 01:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Texas has enough FBS schools to be its own 12 team conference right now with another 2-4 (depending on who you ask) harboring FBS ambitions

Ohio, however, has 8 state schools (+ 1 wanting to move up).

Who? Cleveland State?

Youngstown St. has been trying to get a MAC invite forever. They know they aren't likely to get one.

Didn't know that. Believe CSU (NOT Central State) looked into adding football a few years back but at this point, why bother?

(11-07-2013 09:37 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Makes sense, though I usually don't think as a college with tech in its name as bush league, provided that it's not for-profit or something like that. I think of Texas Tech, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, etc., I don't think people associate them with a community college.

In Missouri, the name tech is bush league and only associated with community colleges. I didn't want my school in any way to be associated with the following "tech" schools in Missouri.

Ranken Technical College
Ozarks Technical Community College
Rolla Technical Institute
Missouri Tech
Linn State Technical College
ITT tech
Grand River Technical School
Lake Career and Technical Center
Cape Girardeau Career and Technology Center