(10-27-2013 09:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:49 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:22 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Why not just have a national ID card? If we can require that every American have insurance, then why not ID cards? They can be issued with the insurance policies.

the question is not so much the ID cards themselves but the IDs required to get those cards

The democrats expect people to have enough resources to sign up for Obamacare, I.e. a computer, Internet access,a phone, ability to read, or the capability to do all things with the help of someone else. So why is an ID card different?

Literacy, or access to the internet, a phone, or a computer is NOT a requirement to voting.

Look, the GOP just wants to institute a hassle tax, falling disproportionately on Democrats (due to their more frequent moves and name changes - most females are Democrats).

Look, the DEMs want open access unchecked voting.
If Europe requires a PHOTO ID, why shouldn't the US?
Or are you saying some DEMS are too dumb or too lazy to get an ID?

(10-27-2013 09:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 09:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:49 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:22 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Why not just have a national ID card? If we can require that every American have insurance, then why not ID cards? They can be issued with the insurance policies.

the question is not so much the ID cards themselves but the IDs required to get those cards

The democrats expect people to have enough resources to sign up for Obamacare, I.e. a computer, Internet access,a phone, ability to read, or the capability to do all things with the help of someone else. So why is an ID card different?

Literacy, or access to the internet, a phone, or a computer is NOT a requirement to voting.

Look, the GOP just wants to institute a hassle tax, falling disproportionately on Democrats (due to their more frequent moves and name changes - most females are Democrats).

Being that your leader was a community organizer, why doesn't he get the local democrat parties to help people to properly register? Or is that asking too much?

I would think the Democratic "Get out the Vote" base could surely assist with a "Get out the ID" campaign. They don't want any checks on voting in the US.

(10-27-2013 09:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 09:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:49 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:22 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Why not just have a national ID card? If we can require that every American have insurance, then why not ID cards? They can be issued with the insurance policies.

the question is not so much the ID cards themselves but the IDs required to get those cards

The democrats expect people to have enough resources to sign up for Obamacare, I.e. a computer, Internet access,a phone, ability to read, or the capability to do all things with the help of someone else. So why is an ID card different?

Literacy, or access to the internet, a phone, or a computer is NOT a requirement to voting.

Look, the GOP just wants to institute a hassle tax, falling disproportionately on Democrats (due to their more frequent moves and name changes - most females are Democrats).

Being that your leader was a community organizer, why doesn't he get the local democrat parties to help people to properly register? Or is that asking too much?

That is what they are doing. It is working nicely for the GOP as they are forcing them to divert resources to do this that would be better spend elsewhere. It is an excellent strategy. It just isn't about preventing voter fraud.

(10-27-2013 09:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:05 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:04 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 07:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  its not just a matter of changing a name

birth certificates have been discounted due to

-it being a hebrew name
-having a jr. in it

and other BS like that

and at the end of the day its someones legal right to change their name and they should be blocked from voting because of it

Yeah, I can see where that's a nationwide problem. Get serious.

doesnt matter. every person should be allowed to vote. EVERY person

Sure. Get an ID...well in advance of the election. Dont wait until voting day.

And if you move within three months of the election? I guess you can't vote then. Oh, that would include most college students who want to vote in their college location.

a) it's called ABSENTEE voting. it's not that hard to do... unless you're lazy, dont' care, or really low on the intelligence scale.

b) If it takes you 3 months to get yourself registered after you move, you're either lazy, dont' care, or really low on the intelligence scale. Hell, my wife and I moved to Missouri in September of the year we moved, and we were both registered to vote locally by the time of the local election of that year. (november)... Hey look, September, October, VOTED in November.

Btw. i will admit, sometimes there are kinks in the works, but that's the purpose of provisional ballots.

(10-27-2013 10:08 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  a) it's called ABSENTEE voting. it's not that hard to do... unless you're lazy, dont' care, or really low on the intelligence scale.

b) If it takes you 3 months to get yourself registered after you move, you're either lazy, dont' care, or really low on the intelligence scale.

You just described those poor disenfranchised voters to a T.

(10-27-2013 09:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 07:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  What kind of existence can a person have without any ID? Very limiting, perfect democrat material.

Without an ID that has the exact same name as on the voter registration (including Jr. or their name before they got married/divorced)? A pretty good one. The bank will take it.

Oh and that ID must have the EXACT ADDRESS on the card? Poor people move a lot. So do students. But those ID's are good even if they haven't changed the actual card since the moved to the apartment building down the block.

Lazytom you are so full of sh!t. Clueless. Clueless.

(10-27-2013 06:57 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:56 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:38 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 03:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  its an apples to oranges analogy because the voter ID laws are much stricter than the ID laws requiring liquor & cigarette sales

I dont' know any state where it's harder to get a Driver's License than it is to get a state issued ID (either of which is needed for buying alcohol, cigarettes, or even applying for ObamaScare).

Someone live in a state where a state-supplied ID is harder to get than a DL?

I'd love to know what the differences between the two are.

its not so much how much harder it is to get that type of ID but how long they can last for.

using a drivers license to get beer. you can use the same the same ID in all 50 states and you can use it after it expires.

with voter ID laws you can only use an instate drivers license, that must have your current address & cant be used if expired

thats the big difference here

The spin you're putting on this is beyond belief.

i guess "spin" is what you call me making an obviously very good point that you cant counter

Let us know when that finally happens.

(10-27-2013 09:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 07:50 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  why should they be grandfathered in?
why can't they get an ID especially if there is a credit to cover the cost for someone who can't afford one?
Being too lazy to take care of your business (getting an ID) is not a good excuse.

Brazil requires a photo ID.
Canada requires a photo ID.
Germany requires a photo ID.
The Netherlands requires a photo ID.
France requires a photo ID.
England requires a photo ID.
Etc.

I can continue and list other industrialized countries...but you can see by the list that other countries require photo IDs. Are they disenfranchising voters in each of those countries? You libs always want to point to Europe and Canada as models we should follow — why not follow them in requiring photo IDs?

And every single one of those countries has automatic voter registration for all citizens. AND several of those countries require you to change your voter card every time you move (I lived in one of them and worked in politics in another).

What the GOP wants is more hassels for Dem voters.

How is it more of a hassle for dem voters than GOP voters?

NAACP President Says Voter ID Laws Are Racist, Trying To Undermine Coalition That Elected Barack Obama…


Isn’t it racist to assume blacks and hispanics lack the ability to show an ID?

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The president of the NAACP says laws that aim to undermine the coalition that helped elect President Barack Obama are the No. 1 issue facing Americans.

Benjamin Jealous told a Salt Lake City audience on Friday that the nation’s power structure has seen the way blacks, Hispanics and students of all races are voting and it realizes time is running out on its “strategy for power.”

He says attempts to place restrictions on voter registration in Florida are aimed at those outside the power structure, but populists can defeat “organized money” every time if people are organized.

The Salt Lake Tribune reports that Jealous’ remarks were made at the NAACP Salt Lake branch’s 94th annual Life Membership and Freedom Banquet.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/26/naacp-...sion-laws/

(10-27-2013 11:50 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  NAACP President Says Voter ID Laws Are Racist, Trying To Undermine Coalition That Elected Barack Obama…


Isn’t it racist to assume blacks and hispanics lack the ability to show an ID?

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The president of the NAACP says laws that aim to undermine the coalition that helped elect President Barack Obama are the No. 1 issue facing Americans.

Benjamin Jealous told a Salt Lake City audience on Friday that the nation’s power structure has seen the way blacks, Hispanics and students of all races are voting and it realizes time is running out on its “strategy for power.”

He says attempts to place restrictions on voter registration in Florida are aimed at those outside the power structure, but populists can defeat “organized money” every time if people are organized.

The Salt Lake Tribune reports that Jealous’ remarks were made at the NAACP Salt Lake branch’s 94th annual Life Membership and Freedom Banquet.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/26/naacp-...sion-laws/

This coming from a man who barely knows his own father.

(10-27-2013 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 12:58 PM)blah Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 12:51 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 12:40 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Why carry around a drivers license, the cop will believe you when you say you have one.

yeah and god forbid anyone ever moves to another state, or changes their address

And God forbid that you then go and update your information....whoa....so difficult.....and racist.

yeah if you wanna have to wait a couple hrs at the dmv everytime, then have longer voting lines because of the added time to check IDs yeah......thats not really a bad thing, we are only making the voting process much harder to fix a non existent problem

Maybe get your ID before the day of the election? I dunno, that's just a thought.

(10-27-2013 09:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:05 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:04 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 07:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  its not just a matter of changing a name

birth certificates have been discounted due to

-it being a hebrew name
-having a jr. in it

and other BS like that

and at the end of the day its someones legal right to change their name and they should be blocked from voting because of it

Yeah, I can see where that's a nationwide problem. Get serious.

doesnt matter. every person should be allowed to vote. EVERY person

Sure. Get an ID...well in advance of the election. Dont wait until voting day.

And if you move within three months of the election? I guess you can't vote then. Oh, that would include most college students who want to vote in their college location.

My daughter used a absentee ballot for every election in college. A system exists for that problem Tom. One just needs to have some type of motivation. I understand that college students are not the most motivated group around..but..that is their problem. Having to hold their little hands and guiding them to the voting booth is out of the question. They are adults. Act like it.

as for moving?...I believe that a system already is in place to handle that...but..if not? That should be easily addressed by reasonable people.

(10-27-2013 09:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:49 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 06:22 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Why not just have a national ID card? If we can require that every American have insurance, then why not ID cards? They can be issued with the insurance policies.

the question is not so much the ID cards themselves but the IDs required to get those cards

The democrats expect people to have enough resources to sign up for Obamacare, I.e. a computer, Internet access,a phone, ability to read, or the capability to do all things with the help of someone else. So why is an ID card different?

Literacy, or access to the internet, a phone, or a computer is NOT a requirement to voting.

Look, the GOP just wants to institute a hassle tax, falling disproportionately on Democrats (due to their more frequent moves and name changes - most females are Democrats).

and you want to hold everyones hand and lead them to the polls like lemmings. F that. Somewhere down the line people must shoulder some damn responsibility in their lives. I refuse to coddle people or give 2 ***** about their problems. I somehow manage to get this stuff done. They don't get a pass because of ignorance or stupidity. The elections are scheduled well in advance. I suggest you Libs start working on this problem now and get your zombies prepared to vote.

Is our present government just set up to hurt the public?
All it does is give us problems.

(10-28-2013 05:58 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 09:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:05 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 08:04 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Yeah, I can see where that's a nationwide problem. Get serious.

doesnt matter. every person should be allowed to vote. EVERY person

Sure. Get an ID...well in advance of the election. Dont wait until voting day.

And if you move within three months of the election? I guess you can't vote then. Oh, that would include most college students who want to vote in their college location.

My daughter used a absentee ballot for every election in college. A system exists for that problem Tom. One just needs to have some type of motivation. I understand that college students are not the most motivated group around..but..that is their problem. Having to hold their little hands and guiding them to the voting booth is out of the question. They are adults. Act like it.

as for moving?...I believe that a system already is in place to handle that...but..if not? That should be easily addressed by reasonable people.

I'm still looking for those reasonable legislators in NC.

One of the arguments against gun control laws is that restrictions only hinder the citizen and not the criminal. What makes anyone think that the people already trying to sway elections (1 in 60,000) won't find a way around these laws? It's not like anyone has ever gotten a fake ID to buy beer, I think it is safe to assume that the people who would go through the ineffective trouble of committing voter fraud from the outside wouldn't be deterred by ID laws at all. Any voter fraud with the power to sway in election would come from the inside, and these laws just made the inside a lot more cloudier via big government.

While in the mean time there will in fact be more valid voters turned away due to technicalities. These laws are just adding government bulk to the voting process. Without all the rhetoric about the ease of obtaining IDs this gives local governments more power to sway elections, to whichever party they want.

(10-28-2013 12:31 PM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  One of the arguments against gun control laws is that restrictions only hinder the citizen and not the criminal. What makes anyone think that the people already trying to sway elections (1 in 60,000) won't find a way around these laws? It's not like anyone has ever gotten a fake ID to buy beer, I think it is safe to assume that the people who would go through the ineffective trouble of committing voter fraud from the outside wouldn't be deterred by ID laws at all. Any voter fraud with the power to sway in election would come from the inside, and these laws just made the inside a lot more cloudier via big government.

While in the mean time there will in fact be more valid voters turned away due to technicalities. These laws are just adding government bulk to the voting process. Without all the rhetoric about the ease of obtaining IDs this gives local governments more power to sway elections, to whichever party they want.

yeah thats the point. a lotta hypocrisy from the GOP on this

(10-28-2013 12:31 PM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  One of the arguments against gun control laws is that restrictions only hinder the citizen and not the criminal. What makes anyone think that the people already trying to sway elections (1 in 60,000) won't find a way around these laws? It's not like anyone has ever gotten a fake ID to buy beer, I think it is safe to assume that the people who would go through the ineffective trouble of committing voter fraud from the outside wouldn't be deterred by ID laws at all. Any voter fraud with the power to sway in election would come from the inside, and these laws just made the inside a lot more cloudier via big government.
While in the mean time there will in fact be more valid voters turned away due to technicalities. These laws are just adding government bulk to the voting process. Without all the rhetoric about the ease of obtaining IDs this gives local governments more power to sway elections, to whichever party they want.

So, the argument is that they're not doing it now, but if we made it harder for them to do, then they would do it? Got it.

(10-28-2013 02:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 12:31 PM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  One of the arguments against gun control laws is that restrictions only hinder the citizen and not the criminal. What makes anyone think that the people already trying to sway elections (1 in 60,000) won't find a way around these laws? It's not like anyone has ever gotten a fake ID to buy beer, I think it is safe to assume that the people who would go through the ineffective trouble of committing voter fraud from the outside wouldn't be deterred by ID laws at all. Any voter fraud with the power to sway in election would come from the inside, and these laws just made the inside a lot more cloudier via big government.
While in the mean time there will in fact be more valid voters turned away due to technicalities. These laws are just adding government bulk to the voting process. Without all the rhetoric about the ease of obtaining IDs this gives local governments more power to sway elections, to whichever party they want.

So, the argument is that they're not doing it now, but if we made it harder for them to do, then they would do it? Got it.

The argument is that the people doing it now would still do it. You know, like how criminals in Chicago still shoot people even though they have strict gun laws.

(10-28-2013 03:33 PM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  The argument is that the people doing it now would still do it. You know, like how criminals in Chicago still shoot people even though they have strict gun laws.

Understood.

But the argument has previously been that people are not doing it now and therefore no law was needed. This is a shift, an admission that it is happening now, and I just want to be sure that I am getting it correctly.