The new "auto braking" cars look great in the ads where they stop before they hit something.

What about the car behind them?

Is it reasonable to expect a person's braking reaction to be equal to that of a computer-braking car in front of them?

Good point. I would be very cautious about this; I see lots of room for issues, especially if there is somehow a computer error and the car just randomly stops if a bird flies in front of the sensor or something. Imagine being on the interstate, a large insect (say, butterfly) smashes and smears into the sensor, and makes you screech to a halt. Bad things will happen! Maybe that's just me but that's what I'd worry about, haha

Self driving cars have been around for awhile now, and with a stellar driving record. As for the first concern, you have to make sure you avoid the car in front of you before you worry about the car behind you.

(10-15-2013 12:37 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Self driving cars have been around for awhile now, and with a stellar driving record. As for the first concern, you have to make sure you avoid the car in front of you before you worry about the car behind you.

That's a good point. However, the cases I'm worried about would likely involve two less-skilled human drivers.

(10-14-2013 11:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  The new "auto braking" cars look great in the ads where they stop before they hit something.

What about the car behind them?

Is it reasonable to expect a person's braking reaction to be equal to that of a computer-braking car in front of them?

Why would it matter? They won't stop sooner than ABS would allow, and you should allow enough space for the car in front of you to stop for any reason.

When I hit my brakes, I'm looking in my rear view to see what's coming. I've avoided being rear ended many times because I have the ability to let off my brake when a car is not going to stop quick enough. I can allow for the car in front AND behind me.

(10-15-2013 12:37 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Self driving cars have been around for awhile now,

Yeah, I call them taxis.

(10-15-2013 08:44 AM)Paul M Wrote:  When I hit my brakes, I'm looking in my rear view to see what's coming. I've avoided being rear ended many times because I have the ability to let off my brake when a car is not going to stop quick enough. I can allow for the car in front AND behind me.

You're speaking common sense. Don't confuse the liberals...

As far as self braking cars go, I wouldn't own one, and if I did, I would ask for that feature to be disabled or pull the fuse for it. I've seen commercials for cars that warn you, but I didn't know they tried to brake for you too. Might as well just drive my GF around in a Driver's Ed car where she has a set of brakes too.

(10-15-2013 08:44 AM)Paul M Wrote:  When I hit my brakes, I'm looking in my rear view to see what's coming. I've avoided being rear ended many times because I have the ability to let off my brake when a car is not going to stop quick enough. I can allow for the car in front AND behind me.

Good point. I do the same thing, but that could also be done programmatically, in theory. Actually, what I do is try to slam my brakes on quickly to scare the crap out of the driver behind me so that the driver behind him runs into him, and then I let up on my brake enough that I don't rear-end the car in front of me and the driver behind me doesn't rear end me. Defensive driving at it's finest.

(10-15-2013 09:21 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 08:44 AM)Paul M Wrote:  When I hit my brakes, I'm looking in my rear view to see what's coming. I've avoided being rear ended many times because I have the ability to let off my brake when a car is not going to stop quick enough. I can allow for the car in front AND behind me.

You're speaking common sense. Don't confuse the liberals...

As far as self braking cars go, I wouldn't own one, and if I did, I would ask for that feature to be disabled or pull the fuse for it. I've seen commercials for cars that warn you, but I didn't know they tried to brake for you too. Might as well just drive my GF around in a Driver's Ed car where she has a set of brakes too.

I presume you're calling me a liberal again, but why is this a political issue? Do you presume Conservatives are by nature Luddites that don't trust industry to cater to their customers? Seems like that would be a liberal position, and your next logical step would be to demand the government step in wi regulations to protect yourself from selfish corporations.

(10-15-2013 09:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 09:21 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 08:44 AM)Paul M Wrote:  When I hit my brakes, I'm looking in my rear view to see what's coming. I've avoided being rear ended many times because I have the ability to let off my brake when a car is not going to stop quick enough. I can allow for the car in front AND behind me.

You're speaking common sense. Don't confuse the liberals...

As far as self braking cars go, I wouldn't own one, and if I did, I would ask for that feature to be disabled or pull the fuse for it. I've seen commercials for cars that warn you, but I didn't know they tried to brake for you too. Might as well just drive my GF around in a Driver's Ed car where she has a set of brakes too.

I presume you're calling me a liberal again, but why is this a political issue? Do you presume Conservatives are by nature Luddites that don't trust industry to cater to their customers? Seems like that would be a liberal position, and your next logical step would be to demand the government step in wi regulations to protect yourself from selfish corporations.

WTF dude, why do you ALWAYS think I'm calling you a liberal? I told him not to confuse them, so unless YOU consider yourself one, I wasn't talking about you... Relax. Or go get your morning coffee, whatever you have to do to get settled in for the afternoon. Not to mention, you JUST told Paul you do the same thing he does. Being that you're NOT a liberal, my presumption about you would be that you also use common sense when pulling behind a car at a red light and leaving enough space that you can quickly pull off to the right to avoid being rear ended.

(10-15-2013 09:51 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  WTF dude, why do you ALWAYS think I'm calling you a liberal? I told him not to confuse them, so unless YOU consider yourself one, I wasn't talking about you... Relax. Or go get your morning coffee, whatever you have to do to get settled in for the afternoon. Not to mention, you JUST told Paul you do the same thing he does. Being that you're NOT a liberal, my presumption about you would be that you also use common sense when pulling behind a car at a red light and leaving enough space that you can quickly pull off to the right to avoid being rear ended.

If you'd been here when Rebel was here, he did that for a long time, so I'm traumatized. I just seem to be the only one arguing a contrary position (surprise), so I jumped to conclusions. Speaking of Rebel, I wish he'd come back, but he was pissed enough that he not only left, but deleted his profile and with it, all of his history on the site.

But, you bring up another point. If someone is going to veer off on the shoulder on the highway, I usually look around and make sure I'm the one that gets that chance.

The auto-braking thing looks like it's got a lot of promise. My guess is that the end result would be more aggressive driving, even among those without automated systems, and ultimately more accidents overall, even if there are fewer in those cars with auto-braking. I wouldn't want to be one of the ones to buy into the first generation. However, I believe that Ford Trucks, and possibly others have a feature of sway control where they will apply the brakes and reduce power to slow down the truck when it detects sway.

(10-15-2013 10:55 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 09:51 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  WTF dude, why do you ALWAYS think I'm calling you a liberal? I told him not to confuse them, so unless YOU consider yourself one, I wasn't talking about you... Relax. Or go get your morning coffee, whatever you have to do to get settled in for the afternoon. Not to mention, you JUST told Paul you do the same thing he does. Being that you're NOT a liberal, my presumption about you would be that you also use common sense when pulling behind a car at a red light and leaving enough space that you can quickly pull off to the right to avoid being rear ended.

If you'd been here when Rebel was here, he did that for a long time, so I'm traumatized. I just seem to be the only one arguing a contrary position (surprise), so I jumped to conclusions. Speaking of Rebel, I wish he'd come back, but he was pissed enough that he not only left, but deleted his profile and with it, all of his history on the site.

But, you bring up another point. If someone is going to veer off on the shoulder on the highway, I usually look around and make sure I'm the one that gets that chance.

The auto-braking thing looks like it's got a lot of promise. My guess is that the end result would be more aggressive driving, even among those without automated systems, and ultimately more accidents overall, even if there are fewer in those cars with auto-braking. I wouldn't want to be one of the ones to buy into the first generation. However, I believe that Ford Trucks, and possibly others have a feature of sway control where they will apply the brakes and reduce power to slow down the truck when it detects sway.

It's ok, I understand... Even if you said something I didn't like, I'd just go to a different conversation because I respect and like you. I wouldn't ever think you were a liberal, hoss... My sister bought a 2013 Cadillac XTS Platinum Edition and when she got too far towards the shoulder of the road or yellow line, the left or right side of her seat would vibrate, or too close to a vehicle in front of her, the front of her seat would vibrate, giving her a heads up.

Speaking of defensive driving, the other day I was at the gas station and I saw a car about a full car length behind the person in front of him. I heard tires squealing and as a car slid towards this guy, he was able to quickly gas it and get into the other turn lane, the car in front of him barely missed a rear end collision.

I have an auto braking feature when my cruise control is activated. It is annoying sometimes.

I don't think it's consequential. An autobraking system is going to react faster, but that doesn't mean the car is magically going to be able to decelerate in a manner any faster than a human slamming on the brake. It's possible that the person in the car following may even be able to deal with more predictable (less panicked) braking with an automated system.

(10-15-2013 11:14 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  I have an auto braking feature when my cruise control is activated. It is annoying sometimes.

Do you have to press "Resume" after it brakes every time? I'd just have to settle for the technology that actually lets you do more than just put your car in gear by yourself.

Kind of makes you wonder if technology is heading towards lazy people. Not on purpose, but in the long run, we'll have nothing to do but sit there.

(10-15-2013 11:21 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I don't think it's consequential. An autobraking system is going to react faster, but that doesn't mean the car is magically going to be able to decelerate in a manner any faster than a human slamming on the brake. It's possible that the person in the car following may even be able to deal with more predictable (less panicked) braking with an automated system.

I'd rather people pay attention and be able to do this stuff on their own. I'm telling you, technology needs to slow down a little. Soon we'll all be lazy fat bodies who just sit there while our cars do everything for us.

(10-15-2013 11:21 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 11:14 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  I have an auto braking feature when my cruise control is activated. It is annoying sometimes.

Do you have to press "Resume" after it brakes every time? I'd just have to settle for the technology that actually lets you do more than just put your car in gear by yourself.

Kind of makes you wonder if technology is heading towards lazy people. Not on purpose, but in the long run, we'll have nothing to do but sit there.

The current trend is toward higher automation, simply because of how much safer it can be. I was listening to an engineer from BMW speak about a study he did involving bringing a human back into the loop in a fully automated car. They want to know how people react when they need to resume manual control.

(10-15-2013 11:21 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 11:14 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  I have an auto braking feature when my cruise control is activated. It is annoying sometimes.

Do you have to press "Resume" after it brakes every time? I'd just have to settle for the technology that actually lets you do more than just put your car in gear by yourself.

Kind of makes you wonder if technology is heading towards lazy people. Not on purpose, but in the long run, we'll have nothing to do but sit there.

You bring up a good point, but I personally don't think that an automated car is any less healthy for a human than a manually operated one. Operating a car is probably about as physically demanding as playing a video game on your couch. If people wanted to be healthier in any significant way, they'd consider biking. But that also feeds right back into what you were saying; people don't choose to bike because they want something to do if for them. Public transportation and the car has been doing this for humanity for a century now.

(10-15-2013 11:28 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 11:21 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2013 11:14 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  I have an auto braking feature when my cruise control is activated. It is annoying sometimes.

Do you have to press "Resume" after it brakes every time? I'd just have to settle for the technology that actually lets you do more than just put your car in gear by yourself.

Kind of makes you wonder if technology is heading towards lazy people. Not on purpose, but in the long run, we'll have nothing to do but sit there.

You bring up a good point, but I personally don't think that an automated car is any less healthy for a human than a manually operated one. Operating a car is probably about as physically demanding as playing a video game on your couch. If people wanted to be healthier in any significant way, they'd consider biking. But that also feeds right back into what you were saying; people don't choose to bike because they want something to do if for them. Public transportation and the car has been doing this for humanity for a century now.

I guess I used the wrong words... What I'm intending to say is that a car doing everything for you makes you lazy emotionally. You tend to stop paying attention, or not pay nearly as much attention, and the more comfortable with your vehicle you become, the more emotionally lazy you could get.

Imagine setting your Navigation for a destination 20 miles away. You get in you car, start it up, input your settings, and relax. 20 to 40 yards before your turn, your blinker automatically comes on, your speed is set to the posted limit (probably via satellite by this point) and you have automatic braking and accelerating. Cars already detect vehicles in your blind spot so that's already there too in case your car decides to pass... There's nothing to do but play with the radio. It's going to outdo itself, technology. One day...