(09-29-2013 03:56 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 11:29 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 09:26 AM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  The only silver lining I can see is we are undefeated in conference play right now. 1-0!

and ahead of GaSo in SoCon standings for those GaSo fans who cast stones.

Change is hard. Big changes are really hard.
With majority of coaching staff new, would consider that a big change.

Yeah like that time we changed from the option to the spread and all of the App State fans did not toss a single stone at us.....oh wait

I remember losing to that spread attack 53-7 in 2004. It wasn't all that bad, if we somehow defeat GaSou during this transition 53-7, I will rest easy.

(09-29-2013 04:46 PM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 03:56 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 11:29 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 09:26 AM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  The only silver lining I can see is we are undefeated in conference play right now. 1-0!

and ahead of GaSo in SoCon standings for those GaSo fans who cast stones.

Change is hard. Big changes are really hard.
With majority of coaching staff new, would consider that a big change.

Yeah like that time we changed from the option to the spread and all of the App State fans did not toss a single stone at us.....oh wait

I remember losing to that spread attack 53-7 in 2004. It wasn't all that bad, if we somehow defeat GaSou during this transition 53-7, I will rest easy.

We were still an option team in 2004. We only beat you once during our stretch of not running the option and we had the Walter Payton winner at QB that season.

The problem isn't coaching. Almost 300 yards rushing given up against a second tier FCS program tells you something. We have an under tackle in a 4-3 playing nose tackle. The center moves him left or right and then the guards are up to the second level by default.

Ronald Blair and Deuce would be all conference defensive ends in a 4-3 defense and they are not even getting a chance because of the runs up the middle. Normally we would be okay to take more risks on offense but the 3-4 is setting us up to fail. Whoever thought the 3-4 in FCS was a good idea is and was wrong.

We need to make like Georgia Southern and go back to what worked, the 4-3.

No, we need to be App State. Remember our fight song, "Nobody like us."
Woody, the DC, will not go to the 4-3 since he is so well known for the 3-4, and just came to App. Stubbornness even though we do not have a nose tackle to truly use the 3-4 this year. Hate to predict that, but believe it's the truth. That will be his concentration in the off season to recruit that player that can handle it for him.

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  ...We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. ....

This cannot be emphasized enough. Our lines just aren't getting the job done. IMO we're undersized across the board OL & DL. We made a bad hire after Elliot left who under recruited the OL as well as ran off a player or two. I like our current OL coach but we're now paying for our past mistakes. Our DL wasn't big to begin with and now after implementing the 34 we're downright small. Our opponents have recognized this and are taking advantage. I expected growing pains on D, just not quite as bad as we saw Saturday. The absence of a true NT and overall lack of depth on the DL killed us vs CSU.

Agree - recruiting is the answer and while I'm not a believer on building a team on JuCo players, this year's recruiting season is tailor made for some JuCo linemen that want to jump right in and make an impact. One thing we can definitely offer is a chance to earn immediate playing time.

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  Yes, we will always have that. What about you? Been away from FCS a while, I know, but we lost to 3 teams with a combined record of 13-1 so far this year. Not what we wanted, but it would have happened anyway no matter what coach we put on the sidelines. We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. Still had 29k in the stands to watch the game, another beautiful afternoon in God's Country. I know it galls you that we are transitioning to FBS, but as a fan of a team that has such a poor record over the last several years and that no one picked in the last several rounds of conference realignment, you'd think you would be a bit more humble.

11-1 actually. :) Your point still stands though. They are beatable teams, but not BAD teams. On another note we've had endless conversations on our boards too about player motivation, but to be honest it took a warning from the Ref's to our band for the fans to get into it this season as well. It's easy to point fingers, truth of the matter is this season for anyone (players included) is just weird.

(09-30-2013 10:45 AM)TrueBlueAlum Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  Yes, we will always have that. What about you? Been away from FCS a while, I know, but we lost to 3 teams with a combined record of 13-1 so far this year. Not what we wanted, but it would have happened anyway no matter what coach we put on the sidelines. We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. Still had 29k in the stands to watch the game, another beautiful afternoon in God's Country. I know it galls you that we are transitioning to FBS, but as a fan of a team that has such a poor record over the last several years and that no one picked in the last several rounds of conference realignment, you'd think you would be a bit more humble.

11-1 actually. :) Your point still stands though. They are beatable teams, but not BAD teams. On another note we've had endless conversations on our boards too about player motivation, but to be honest it took a warning from the Ref's to our band for the fans to get into it this season as well. It's easy to point fingers, truth of the matter is this season for anyone (players included) is just weird.

This season feels very much like a lame duck for App - I know I'm personally more excited about next year than this one, and was even before the 1-3 start. It would have been nice to play a schedule like ODU this year instead of a SoCon slate.

I'm not a fan of the college 3-4 defense and feel there has to be a reason so few college teams use it. With the defensive transformation and lots of new young players on defense I thought it might be a tough year defensively. With 9/10 starters back on offense and Marcus Cox doing a better than Steven Miller imitation as his replacement at RB, I don't understand the "average" offensive output. The last 3 games have racked up a lot of yards but not a lot of points.

I haven't given up on this year but my expectations are certainly a little lower. The next game against The Citadel will be interesting with 2 underperforming teams meeting in what I consider a must win game.

(09-30-2013 09:22 AM)97App Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  ...We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. ....

This cannot be emphasized enough. Our lines just aren't getting the job done. IMO we're undersized across the board OL & DL. We made a bad hire after Elliot left who under recruited the OL as well as ran off a player or two. I like our current OL coach but we're now paying for our past mistakes. Our DL wasn't big to begin with and now after implementing the 34 we're downright small. Our opponents have recognized this and are taking advantage. I expected growing pains on D, just not quite as bad as we saw Saturday. The absence of a true NT and overall lack of depth on the DL killed us vs CSU.



Agree - recruiting is the answer and while I'm not a believer on building a team on JuCo players, this year's recruiting season is tailor made for some JuCo linemen that want to jump right in and make an impact. One thing we can definitely offer is a chance to earn immediate playing time.

Undersized across the lines? Perhaps at one position on the OL but the unit goes 6-6 290, 6-2 295, 6-2 285, 5-11 270 & 6-6 311. The problem is they just aren't very good. They miss assignments and are late getting off blocks and holding others. I can't tell you how many times Acey has been late pulling and getting to the point. When Jamal was sacked on 4th down at Elon the guy never had a glove laid on him.

The DL goes (with Blair in the line up) 6-5 250, 6-3 275, 6-4 275. In 2005 our DT's were at 250 and ends at 225. We're just so young in the back 8 and in one game the guys were taking calls from the decoy not the real signal coach.

Personally I think we have a problem in the weight room. Our guys seem awfully weak and are getting pushed all over the place. Blocking today is nothing more than a shoving match and our guys are getting shoved out of the way.

Agree with you on our strength and conditioning coach. Just have not seen it the last few years and especially this year. If I didn't know better would think Chris Moore was running it.

By the way, our upcoming game with The Citadel may not have the luster of
0-4 FIU -vs- 0-4 Southern Miss this weekend, but it is a challenger. Here is an
article from The Post and Courier on the Cadets state of mind:
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20...val-furman

(10-01-2013 08:12 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Agree with you on our strength and conditioning coach. Just have not seen it the last few years and especially this year. If I didn't know better would think Chris Moore was running it.

Appalachian used to have the best strength coach and let him go. He was an odd duck, but he was good at his job.
There are no excuses to EVER lose to an HBCU or underfunded Charleston Southern. Their 4-0 record going into the App game included wins over mighty Shorter (who just started football), Campbell (Non-scholarship and two years old), Norfolk State and The Citadel. The win was huge for the other Bucs and will probably get Jamey Chadwell a better job (He's a jobhopper from way back), but no way App should lose to them. That's a pride issue.
And to those eluding to Marshall's mediocrity the last several years, you'd better get used to having between 5-7 losses a year. I do sincerely hope that the App fans that put their black and gold up in the winter for any combination of red and white, tarheel blue, puke blue, and the occasional orange and white don't abandon going up there, but something tells me that as the cost of a ticket goes up and the losses go up, the attendance will drop.

(10-01-2013 08:45 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 08:12 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Agree with you on our strength and conditioning coach. Just have not seen it the last few years and especially this year. If I didn't know better would think Chris Moore was running it.

Appalachian used to have the best strength coach and let him go. He was an odd duck, but he was good at his job.
There are no excuses to EVER lose to an HBCU or underfunded Charleston Southern. Their 4-0 record going into the App game included wins over mighty Shorter (who just started football), Campbell (Non-scholarship and two years old), Norfolk State and The Citadel. The win was huge for the other Bucs and will probably get Jamey Chadwell a better job (He's a jobhopper from way back), but no way App should lose to them. That's a pride issue.
And to those eluding to Marshall's mediocrity the last several years, you'd better get used to having between 5-7 losses a year. I do sincerely hope that the App fans that put their black and gold up in the winter for any combination of red and white, tarheel blue, puke blue, and the occasional orange and white don't abandon going up there, but something tells me that as the cost of a ticket goes up and the losses go up, the attendance will drop.

And to think I have been rooting for ETSU bringing football back, and maybe eventually getting into the SBC with us. Oh, well. Think we lost our really good strength coach to that world famous tennis complex in Florida, do not recall the name of it. Do not believe we fired him. Had another right after that that took a really good job also, and then placed a former player as the S&C coach, but could be wrong. Am sure that you are pleased since Jamey Chadwell is originally an ETSU Buc, and would think he gets a better job. He has it going for them without having a lot to work with except his brain.

(09-30-2013 07:00 PM)Wild Bill Kelso Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 09:22 AM)97App Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  ...We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. ....

This cannot be emphasized enough. Our lines just aren't getting the job done. IMO we're undersized across the board OL & DL. We made a bad hire after Elliot left who under recruited the OL as well as ran off a player or two. I like our current OL coach but we're now paying for our past mistakes. Our DL wasn't big to begin with and now after implementing the 34 we're downright small. Our opponents have recognized this and are taking advantage. I expected growing pains on D, just not quite as bad as we saw Saturday. The absence of a true NT and overall lack of depth on the DL killed us vs CSU.



Agree - recruiting is the answer and while I'm not a believer on building a team on JuCo players, this year's recruiting season is tailor made for some JuCo linemen that want to jump right in and make an impact. One thing we can definitely offer is a chance to earn immediate playing time.

Undersized across the lines? Perhaps at one position on the OL but the unit goes 6-6 290, 6-2 295, 6-2 285, 5-11 270 & 6-6 311. The problem is they just aren't very good. They miss assignments and are late getting off blocks and holding others. I can't tell you how many times Acey has been late pulling and getting to the point. When Jamal was sacked on 4th down at Elon the guy never had a glove laid on him.

The DL goes (with Blair in the line up) 6-5 250, 6-3 275, 6-4 275. In 2005 our DT's were at 250 and ends at 225. We're just so young in the back 8 and in one game the guys were taking calls from the decoy not the real signal coach.

Personally I think we have a problem in the weight room. Our guys seem awfully weak and are getting pushed all over the place. Blocking today is nothing more than a shoving match and our guys are getting shoved out of the way.

I should have explained better. I don't disagree with anything you've said, I do think we overstate our OL size. Of course it could be the way were getting pushed around that makes them look smaller.

When I've watched our team line up and did the eyeball test to compare how our linemen stacked up against those across the ball, we either aren't as big as we claim or our opponents are downplaying their size. I think our former OL recruiting strategy was too happy finding the smaller/quicker OL and trying to build them up once they're here. That worked fairly well with our championship runs, but, you have to rely on some luck with players being able to add the weight and still play as quick as they were when we recruited them. Now it seems we're small and slow. I like the size of our freshmen OL and think we're making a turn for the better, too bad it normally takes a couple of years to see the dividends in OL recruiting.

As far as DL it's more of a depth with size issue, if we were in a 43 we'd still be small but not that small and there's one more DL to help out. IMO, you can get by with a smaller interior DL in a 43 vs a 34. Without Blair our DE's weights on our depth chart are : 252, 240, 225, 225 & 245. That's fine for our rush end but the other end needs to be bigger. Blair is a good size but we have nobody with similar size to back him up (our lack of depth here hurt us vs CSU). We also don't have a true 34 NT, we're undersized here at 275, 275 & 280. I'd like to see a couple of guys here pushing 300. On the whole, we will have some up and down weeks this year as we're making the move from the 43 to the 34 especially considering our youth. I'm OK with that and expect some growing pains on that side of the ball.

(10-01-2013 08:12 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Agree with you on our strength and conditioning coach. Just have not seen it the last few years and especially this year. If I didn't know better would think Chris Moore was running it.

(10-01-2013 09:16 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 08:45 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 08:12 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Agree with you on our strength and conditioning coach. Just have not seen it the last few years and especially this year. If I didn't know better would think Chris Moore was running it.

Appalachian used to have the best strength coach and let him go. He was an odd duck, but he was good at his job.
There are no excuses to EVER lose to an HBCU or underfunded Charleston Southern. Their 4-0 record going into the App game included wins over mighty Shorter (who just started football), Campbell (Non-scholarship and two years old), Norfolk State and The Citadel. The win was huge for the other Bucs and will probably get Jamey Chadwell a better job (He's a jobhopper from way back), but no way App should lose to them. That's a pride issue.
And to those eluding to Marshall's mediocrity the last several years, you'd better get used to having between 5-7 losses a year. I do sincerely hope that the App fans that put their black and gold up in the winter for any combination of red and white, tarheel blue, puke blue, and the occasional orange and white don't abandon going up there, but something tells me that as the cost of a ticket goes up and the losses go up, the attendance will drop.

And to think I have been rooting for ETSU bringing football back, and maybe eventually getting into the SBC with us. Oh, well. Think we lost our really good strength coach to that world famous tennis complex in Florida, do not recall the name of it. Do not believe we fired him. Had another right after that that took a really good job also, and then placed a former player as the S&C coach, but could be wrong. Am sure that you are pleased since Jamey Chadwell is originally an ETSU Buc, and would think he gets a better job. He has it going for them without having a lot to work with except his brain.

Jeff Dillman is now the Director of the strength and conditioning program for the Florida Gators.

(10-01-2013 11:10 AM)97App Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 07:00 PM)Wild Bill Kelso Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 09:22 AM)97App Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  ...We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. ....

This cannot be emphasized enough. Our lines just aren't getting the job done. IMO we're undersized across the board OL & DL. We made a bad hire after Elliot left who under recruited the OL as well as ran off a player or two. I like our current OL coach but we're now paying for our past mistakes. Our DL wasn't big to begin with and now after implementing the 34 we're downright small. Our opponents have recognized this and are taking advantage. I expected growing pains on D, just not quite as bad as we saw Saturday. The absence of a true NT and overall lack of depth on the DL killed us vs CSU.



Agree - recruiting is the answer and while I'm not a believer on building a team on JuCo players, this year's recruiting season is tailor made for some JuCo linemen that want to jump right in and make an impact. One thing we can definitely offer is a chance to earn immediate playing time.

Undersized across the lines? Perhaps at one position on the OL but the unit goes 6-6 290, 6-2 295, 6-2 285, 5-11 270 & 6-6 311. The problem is they just aren't very good. They miss assignments and are late getting off blocks and holding others. I can't tell you how many times Acey has been late pulling and getting to the point. When Jamal was sacked on 4th down at Elon the guy never had a glove laid on him.

The DL goes (with Blair in the line up) 6-5 250, 6-3 275, 6-4 275. In 2005 our DT's were at 250 and ends at 225. We're just so young in the back 8 and in one game the guys were taking calls from the decoy not the real signal coach.

Personally I think we have a problem in the weight room. Our guys seem awfully weak and are getting pushed all over the place. Blocking today is nothing more than a shoving match and our guys are getting shoved out of the way.

I should have explained better. I don't disagree with anything you've said, I do think we overstate our OL size. Of course it could be the way were getting pushed around that makes them look smaller.

When I've watched our team line up and did the eyeball test to compare how our linemen stacked up against those across the ball, we either aren't as big as we claim or our opponents are downplaying their size. I think our former OL recruiting strategy was too happy finding the smaller/quicker OL and trying to build them up once they're here. That worked fairly well with our championship runs, but, you have to rely on some luck with players being able to add the weight and still play as quick as they were when we recruited them. Now it seems we're small and slow. I like the size of our freshmen OL and think we're making a turn for the better, too bad it normally takes a couple of years to see the dividends in OL recruiting.

As far as DL it's more of a depth with size issue, if we were in a 43 we'd still be small but not that small and there's one more DL to help out. IMO, you can get by with a smaller interior DL in a 43 vs a 34. Without Blair our DE's weights on our depth chart are : 252, 240, 225, 225 & 245. That's fine for our rush end but the other end needs to be bigger. Blair is a good size but we have nobody with similar size to back him up (our lack of depth here hurt us vs CSU). We also don't have a true 34 NT, we're undersized here at 275, 275 & 280. I'd like to see a couple of guys here pushing 300. On the whole, we will have some up and down weeks this year as we're making the move from the 43 to the 34 especially considering our youth. I'm OK with that and expect some growing pains on that side of the ball.

The people at Montana were commenting on how big our OL was. I told them it was an optical illusion due to the white uniforms.

I would like to ask Woody if he has considered - and if so why he decided not to - putting Singleton (6-3 245) along side Law inside to help with run support. Since most of the pressure in his 50 look scheme comes from the outside move Dada (6-0 225) who is an outstanding pass rusher to the outside and move him around like Lawerence Taylor. Work Millhouse (6-3 275) & Small ((6-2 285) into the rotation at end in order to beef up the DL.

(09-30-2013 07:00 PM)Wild Bill Kelso Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 09:22 AM)97App Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:08 AM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  ...We are getting physically beat on both lines, and we have been sliding in that area for at least 4 years. Nothing that some recruiting can't fix. ....

This cannot be emphasized enough. Our lines just aren't getting the job done. IMO we're undersized across the board OL & DL. We made a bad hire after Elliot left who under recruited the OL as well as ran off a player or two. I like our current OL coach but we're now paying for our past mistakes. Our DL wasn't big to begin with and now after implementing the 34 we're downright small. Our opponents have recognized this and are taking advantage. I expected growing pains on D, just not quite as bad as we saw Saturday. The absence of a true NT and overall lack of depth on the DL killed us vs CSU.



Agree - recruiting is the answer and while I'm not a believer on building a team on JuCo players, this year's recruiting season is tailor made for some JuCo linemen that want to jump right in and make an impact. One thing we can definitely offer is a chance to earn immediate playing time.

Undersized across the lines? Perhaps at one position on the OL but the unit goes 6-6 290, 6-2 295, 6-2 285, 5-11 270 & 6-6 311. The problem is they just aren't very good. They miss assignments and are late getting off blocks and holding others. I can't tell you how many times Acey has been late pulling and getting to the point. When Jamal was sacked on 4th down at Elon the guy never had a glove laid on him.

The DL goes (with Blair in the line up) 6-5 250, 6-3 275, 6-4 275. In 2005 our DT's were at 250 and ends at 225. We're just so young in the back 8 and in one game the guys were taking calls from the decoy not the real signal coach.

Personally I think we have a problem in the weight room. Our guys seem awfully weak and are getting pushed all over the place. Blocking today is nothing more than a shoving match and our guys are getting shoved out of the way.

That's why I said physically beat in my original comment. Agree with your assessment.

(10-01-2013 08:45 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 08:12 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Agree with you on our strength and conditioning coach. Just have not seen it the last few years and especially this year. If I didn't know better would think Chris Moore was running it.

Appalachian used to have the best strength coach and let him go. He was an odd duck, but he was good at his job.
There are no excuses to EVER lose to an HBCU or underfunded Charleston Southern. Their 4-0 record going into the App game included wins over mighty Shorter (who just started football), Campbell (Non-scholarship and two years old), Norfolk State and The Citadel. The win was huge for the other Bucs and will probably get Jamey Chadwell a better job (He's a jobhopper from way back), but no way App should lose to them. That's a pride issue.
And to those eluding to Marshall's mediocrity the last several years, you'd better get used to having between 5-7 losses a year. I do sincerely hope that the App fans that put their black and gold up in the winter for any combination of red and white, tarheel blue, puke blue, and the occasional orange and white don't abandon going up there, but something tells me that as the cost of a ticket goes up and the losses go up, the attendance will drop.

It's amazing to see how many old rivals wish us well! Don't worry about us, UT Johnson City. We will be just fine, and so will our fans. Can't dispute that a least two of our losses were winnable, but you also cannot dispute the success both the Big South and MEAC have had this year in their OOC games, especially against the "mighty" SoCon. We are better than we have shown, and will get our feet under us in time.

I will drink to that.