(09-17-2013 10:37 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  And yet, 14% of college students across America are black.

It seems that schools who do not play Power 5 football are doing a helluva lot better attracting those students than the Power 5 football schools are.

And yet, 12.6% of the American population is black. If anything they're attending college at a higher rate than one would expect. So what's the problem exactly? I'm not seeing how this is a G5/P5 issue really.

(09-17-2013 11:05 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 10:37 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  And yet, 14% of college students across America are black.

It seems that schools who do not play Power 5 football are doing a helluva lot better attracting those students than the Power 5 football schools are.

And yet, 12.6% of the American population is black. If anything they're attending college at a higher rate than one would expect. So what's the problem exactly? I'm not seeing how this is a G5/P5 issue really.

Then to get true diversity in college sports, we will have to reduce the number of African Americans, playing football and basketball.

(09-17-2013 09:18 AM)CardinalZen Wrote:  I find it disturbing that there is almost a total lack of Asians playing college football. There has to be a conspiracy!

Only Dat Nguyen from aTm and the Dallas Cowboys comes to mind as a successful Asian football player. The Bills drafted Ed Wang in 2010 but he didn't last.

We don't live in a black and white world any more, we live in a rich and poor world. Any affirmative action type considerations should ignore race and focus on income. If any particular race has a higher proportion of poor than they would automatically be helped in appropriate proportion.

A more appropriate question might be is how do we get more men to go to college? Universities and colleges at all levels are seeing their enrollments skew more female, even by considerable margins.

(09-17-2013 11:16 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 09:18 AM)CardinalZen Wrote:  I find it disturbing that there is almost a total lack of Asians playing college football. There has to be a conspiracy!

Only Dat Nguyen from aTm and the Dallas Cowboys comes to mind as a successful Asian football player. The Bills drafted Ed Wang in 2010 but he didn't last.

Does American Samoa count? Don't they have a ridiculous amount of NFL players per population?

They are not Asians.

(09-17-2013 11:29 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  A more appropriate question might be is how do we get more men to go to college? Universities and colleges at all levels are seeing their enrollments skew more female, even by considerable margins.

Excellent point.

(09-17-2013 08:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  We do have a wide education quality gap in this country, but this is looking at it backwards. The high impact changes to education need to be made BEFORE kids get to junior high age. Investment in preschool and elementary school programs is what translates into better students in high school and then college (and the goal is at that point, you don't need Affirmative Action-type programs to inflate non-Asian minority enrollment). Trying to change the end point (when kids are in or graduate from high school) is too late.

Sometimes it's too late before they get to pre-school. A person's personality is basically set in stone by the age of 5. Any change at that point requires some drastic event in their life to effect any change...

(09-17-2013 12:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 08:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  We do have a wide education quality gap in this country, but this is looking at it backwards. The high impact changes to education need to be made BEFORE kids get to junior high age. Investment in preschool and elementary school programs is what translates into better students in high school and then college (and the goal is at that point, you don't need Affirmative Action-type programs to inflate non-Asian minority enrollment). Trying to change the end point (when kids are in or graduate from high school) is too late.

Sometimes it's too late before they get to pre-school. A person's personality is basically set in stone by the age of 5. Any change at that point requires some drastic event in their life to effect any change...

Which of course gets to the real issue; that sometimes children have the misfortune of being born with bad parents/families. It is a difficult but not impossible circumstance to overcome. Which leads to my second point.

Some of these players might be exploited, but it is an exploitation of their (and their family's) own making. There exists a multitude of different avenues to improve one's socioeconomic status, CFB and CBB just happen to confer great reward (potential) for the least amount of mental acumen.

(09-17-2013 08:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  We do have a wide education quality gap in this country, but this is looking at it backwards. The high impact changes to education need to be made BEFORE kids get to junior high age. Investment in preschool and elementary school programs is what translates into better students in high school and then college (and the goal is at that point, you don't need Affirmative Action-type programs to inflate non-Asian minority enrollment). Trying to change the end point (when kids are in or graduate from high school) is too late.

IIRC recent studies have shown that pre-kindergarden education does not make any positive difference in a student's later accomplishment in school.

Recent studies have also shown that the best students tend to have lots of parental support too. If you have lousy parents, it doesn't matter much when you start school, or where you go...

Exactly, but no politician will dare say "look, more money can't solve this problem, the success of your child in school is completely resting on how much you, the parent and your community cares about education"

Instead they fall back on the politically correct and easy answer "of COURSE more money can solve this!"

(09-17-2013 05:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Exactly, but no politician will dare say "look, more money can't solve this problem, the success of your child in school is completely resting on how much you, the parent and your community cares about education"

Instead they fall back on the politically correct and easy answer "of COURSE more money can solve this!"

You're up at Drum and don't support Syracuse?

I was up at Drum for most of my Army career but am back home in TX now.

I did enjoy going to SU athletics while I was up there (not a lot else to do on weekends in garrison)

I think there is a problem when adults care more about a black kid playing football than going to math class. What is the message being sent? In reverse, an Asian kid is steered toward math and away from the football field. The P5 schools can find qualified black football players but can't find qualified black students? Those qualified black football players didn't sprout up from the ground. They were trained. Time and resources were invested in those kids to become good football players. Time and resources should be invested in underserved areas(regardless of color) by state funded institutions.

(09-17-2013 09:18 AM)CardinalZen Wrote:  I find it disturbing that there is almost a total lack of Asians playing college football. There has to be a conspiracy!

The opposite side of the same coin.

(09-18-2013 10:27 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I think there is a problem when adults care more about a black kid playing football than going to math class. What is the message being sent? In reverse, an Asian kid is steered toward math and away from the football field. The P5 schools can find qualified black football players but can't find qualified black students? Those qualified black football players didn't sprout up from the ground. They were trained. Time and resources were invested in those kids to become good football players. Time and resources should be invested in underserved areas(regardless of color) by state funded institutions.

Time and resources are wasted when there is a distinct lack of 'want to' on the students and parents part. Kids/parents who are interested in education find ways to get what they need. The tools exist all around, one just needs to pick them up.

(09-18-2013 02:57 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-18-2013 10:27 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I think there is a problem when adults care more about a black kid playing football than going to math class. What is the message being sent? In reverse, an Asian kid is steered toward math and away from the football field. The P5 schools can find qualified black football players but can't find qualified black students? Those qualified black football players didn't sprout up from the ground. They were trained. Time and resources were invested in those kids to become good football players. Time and resources should be invested in underserved areas(regardless of color) by state funded institutions.

Time and resources are wasted when there is a distinct lack of 'want to' on the students and parents part. Kids/parents who are interested in education find ways to get what they need. The tools exist all around, one just needs to pick them up.

When my brother's children were having trouble in school, he yanked them out of the public school and his wife home schooled them until they were well ahead of the kids in the public schools. All of his kids graduated with honors...

(09-17-2013 11:15 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 11:05 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 10:37 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  And yet, 14% of college students across America are black.

It seems that schools who do not play Power 5 football are doing a helluva lot better attracting those students than the Power 5 football schools are.

And yet, 12.6% of the American population is black. If anything they're attending college at a higher rate than one would expect. So what's the problem exactly? I'm not seeing how this is a G5/P5 issue really.

Then to get true diversity in college sports, we will have to reduce the number of African Americans, playing football and basketball.

If you wanted to project racial equality in basketball, a 12 man team would have 5 white guys, 4 hispanics, 2 black guys, and then a rotation of asian, indian, and other minorites for the last spot. To make it completely equitable, half the players would be women.