(09-05-2013 11:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:47 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  If Duquesne ever gets its act together, it could prove to be a more valuable addition than any of the aforementioned teams. Bigger market, pro facility, doesn't duplicate any markets and is located central to the rest of the league...but they have to win.

I don't know. It would be great for Duquesne and the city if it could get in to the Big East, but I don't know if they'd ever overcome the shadow of Pitt and regularly draw. Dayton draws better than Pitt. I think Dayton is a much better addition from a pure program perspective even if Duquesne was winning. Now out of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU, perhaps you could make an argument for the Dukes. But Pittsburgh's hoops scene has plenty of flaws. There is a reason the NBA isn't considered viable in the city and the recruiting grounds are bare. But as you said, Duquesne has to win and make some NCAA tournaments before they can even get in a conversation about getting in the conversation, for which I'm certainly not holding my breath.

And for good reason as Duquesne has been a joke for a very long time now. However, if - and it's admittedly a BIG if - Duquesne ever were to decide to get serious about competing in men's basketball, they would draw just fine and would easily fill up Palumbo and/or the lower bowl of Consol. And, in time, and for big games, they might even fill up both levels of Consol.

Remember, this wouldn't be St. Joseph's and St. Bonaventure coming to town, it would be schools like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's - all well known and well respected commodities in Pittsburgh. Perhaps even more so than some of Pitt's new ACC foes?

I'm just saying that the natural resources are there. Duquesne is a good school with a ton of local alums - many of whom are quite successful and who would support their program if the program warranted such support.

The Dukes also have a state-of-the-art arena literally located across the street from their Uptown campus.

How many schools have that many things going for them who would also expand their television reach into a top 25 US market? Not many.

So I agree entirely that without a FIRM commitment from them to upgrade their recruiting. facilities, etc., this is all moot. Where I disagree is in the assertion that it couldn't work if they did commit. It absolutely could work if Duquesne wanted it to work.

The Dukes could easily replicate what Xavier has done in Cincinnati, Butler in Indianapolis and what schools like St. Louis, Providence and Villanova have done in their respective cities. However you have to pay to play and for too long Duquesne has been content to sit on the sidelines and be a fringe mid-major A-10 team. That option is quickly drying up and the leadership at Duquesne had better recognize it soon or they are going to be joining Robert Morris in the NEC before it is all said and done.

I'm not sure it would work if they did commit, at least to the level that it would work at other places that are the primary show in their respective town, but the word commit is sort of loaded with conditional vagueness. Playing more regularly, as they are, at the Consol shows some improved commitment. They played WVU and Xavier last year at the Consol and drew a reported 6.2K and 6.5K respectively but I have a feeling that was generously reported. I remember them playing fairly highly ranked teams to pretty sparse crowds. And I just don't know if Georgetown and Villanova resonate in Pittsburgh like they did in the 1980s when they were elite powers, and I don't know if those schools are going to retain that high major status down the road anyway.

Maybe you are right, and all it would take would be for Duquesne to win. I wish they would get in the Big East. I'm also pretty sure that is a pipe dream, unfortunately, and I would agree with the other poster they are behind the Flyers and the Bilikens no matter what because I think it is a mistake for the BE to just go after media markets...and I think that is why the BE took Creighton, because they realize that. But for Duquesne, it is now or never if they are going to try to make anything out of that program.

(09-06-2013 12:37 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:47 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  If Duquesne ever gets its act together, it could prove to be a more valuable addition than any of the aforementioned teams. Bigger market, pro facility, doesn't duplicate any markets and is located central to the rest of the league...but they have to win.

I don't know. It would be great for Duquesne and the city if it could get in to the Big East, but I don't know if they'd ever overcome the shadow of Pitt and regularly draw. Dayton draws better than Pitt. I think Dayton is a much better addition from a pure program perspective even if Duquesne was winning. Now out of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU, perhaps you could make an argument for the Dukes. But Pittsburgh's hoops scene has plenty of flaws. There is a reason the NBA isn't considered viable in the city and the recruiting grounds are bare. But as you said, Duquesne has to win and make some NCAA tournaments before they can even get in a conversation about getting in the conversation, for which I'm certainly not holding my breath.

And for good reason as Duquesne has been a joke for a very long time now. However, if - and it's admittedly a BIG if - Duquesne ever were to decide to get serious about competing in men's basketball, they would draw just fine and would easily fill up Palumbo and/or the lower bowl of Consol. And, in time, and for big games, they might even fill up both levels of Consol.

Remember, this wouldn't be St. Joseph's and St. Bonaventure coming to town, it would be schools like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's - all well known and well respected commodities in Pittsburgh. Perhaps even more so than some of Pitt's new ACC foes?

I'm just saying that the natural resources are there. Duquesne is a good school with a ton of local alums - many of whom are quite successful and who would support their program if the program warranted such support.

The Dukes also have a state-of-the-art arena literally located across the street from their Uptown campus.

How many schools have that many things going for them who would also expand their television reach into a top 25 US market? Not many.

So I agree entirely that without a FIRM commitment from them to upgrade their recruiting. facilities, etc., this is all moot. Where I disagree is in the assertion that it couldn't work if they did commit. It absolutely could work if Duquesne wanted it to work.

The Dukes could easily replicate what Xavier has done in Cincinnati, Butler in Indianapolis and what schools like St. Louis, Providence and Villanova have done in their respective cities. However you have to pay to play and for too long Duquesne has been content to sit on the sidelines and be a fringe mid-major A-10 team. That option is quickly drying up and the leadership at Duquesne had better recognize it soon or they are going to be joining Robert Morris in the NEC before it is all said and done.

I'm not sure it would work if they did commit, at least to the level that it would work at other places that are the primary show in their respective town, but the word commit is sort of loaded with conditional vagueness. Playing more regularly, as they are, at the Consol shows some improved commitment. They played WVU and Xavier last year at the Consol and drew a reported 6.2K and 6.5K respectively but I have a feeling that was generously reported. I remember them playing fairly highly ranked teams to pretty sparse crowds. And I just don't know if Georgetown and Villanova resonate in Pittsburgh like they did in the 1980s when they were elite powers, and I don't know if those schools are going to retain that high major status down the road anyway.

Maybe you are right, and all it would take would be for Duquesne to win. I wish they would get in the Big East. I'm also pretty sure that is a pipe dream, unfortunately, and I would agree with the other poster they are behind the Flyers and the Bilikens no matter what because I think it is a mistake for the BE to just go after media markets...and I think that is why the BE took Creighton, because they realize that. But for Duquesne, it is now or never if they are going to try to make anything out of that program.

Why would they be dropped to mid-major level? I know the ACC would love for that to happen but thats not really in the cards. It's like an AAC fan wishing the ACC drops out of the P5. It's not going to happen, no matter how much posters and some people want it to. The TV people have already backed them as a major conference.

(09-06-2013 02:17 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 12:37 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:47 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  If Duquesne ever gets its act together, it could prove to be a more valuable addition than any of the aforementioned teams. Bigger market, pro facility, doesn't duplicate any markets and is located central to the rest of the league...but they have to win.

I don't know. It would be great for Duquesne and the city if it could get in to the Big East, but I don't know if they'd ever overcome the shadow of Pitt and regularly draw. Dayton draws better than Pitt. I think Dayton is a much better addition from a pure program perspective even if Duquesne was winning. Now out of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU, perhaps you could make an argument for the Dukes. But Pittsburgh's hoops scene has plenty of flaws. There is a reason the NBA isn't considered viable in the city and the recruiting grounds are bare. But as you said, Duquesne has to win and make some NCAA tournaments before they can even get in a conversation about getting in the conversation, for which I'm certainly not holding my breath.

And for good reason as Duquesne has been a joke for a very long time now. However, if - and it's admittedly a BIG if - Duquesne ever were to decide to get serious about competing in men's basketball, they would draw just fine and would easily fill up Palumbo and/or the lower bowl of Consol. And, in time, and for big games, they might even fill up both levels of Consol.

Remember, this wouldn't be St. Joseph's and St. Bonaventure coming to town, it would be schools like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's - all well known and well respected commodities in Pittsburgh. Perhaps even more so than some of Pitt's new ACC foes?

I'm just saying that the natural resources are there. Duquesne is a good school with a ton of local alums - many of whom are quite successful and who would support their program if the program warranted such support.

The Dukes also have a state-of-the-art arena literally located across the street from their Uptown campus.

How many schools have that many things going for them who would also expand their television reach into a top 25 US market? Not many.

So I agree entirely that without a FIRM commitment from them to upgrade their recruiting. facilities, etc., this is all moot. Where I disagree is in the assertion that it couldn't work if they did commit. It absolutely could work if Duquesne wanted it to work.

The Dukes could easily replicate what Xavier has done in Cincinnati, Butler in Indianapolis and what schools like St. Louis, Providence and Villanova have done in their respective cities. However you have to pay to play and for too long Duquesne has been content to sit on the sidelines and be a fringe mid-major A-10 team. That option is quickly drying up and the leadership at Duquesne had better recognize it soon or they are going to be joining Robert Morris in the NEC before it is all said and done.

I'm not sure it would work if they did commit, at least to the level that it would work at other places that are the primary show in their respective town, but the word commit is sort of loaded with conditional vagueness. Playing more regularly, as they are, at the Consol shows some improved commitment. They played WVU and Xavier last year at the Consol and drew a reported 6.2K and 6.5K respectively but I have a feeling that was generously reported. I remember them playing fairly highly ranked teams to pretty sparse crowds. And I just don't know if Georgetown and Villanova resonate in Pittsburgh like they did in the 1980s when they were elite powers, and I don't know if those schools are going to retain that high major status down the road anyway.

Maybe you are right, and all it would take would be for Duquesne to win. I wish they would get in the Big East. I'm also pretty sure that is a pipe dream, unfortunately, and I would agree with the other poster they are behind the Flyers and the Bilikens no matter what because I think it is a mistake for the BE to just go after media markets...and I think that is why the BE took Creighton, because they realize that. But for Duquesne, it is now or never if they are going to try to make anything out of that program.

Why would they be dropped to mid-major level? I know the ACC would love for that to happen but thats not really in the cards. It's like an AAC fan wishing the ACC drops out of the P5. It's not going to happen, no matter how much posters and some people want it to. The TV people have already backed them as a major conference.

I have no personal wish for that to happen. I hope it doesn't because I am a fan of many of the Big East teams (in fact, Lou Carnesecca is one of my all-time favorite coaches), but the writing is on the wall with the way things are moving. Not division realignment, just the matter of $. And I don't blame anyone for questioning that, and I hope it isn't true, but ask yourself why Villanova was desperate enough to add football to try to into even the Big East for football and later was begging to get into the ACC? Why did UConn move its football up? The writing is on the wall, I'm afraid, even a decade ago. You know, CUSA with Louisville, Cincy and Memphis in their prime was a mid-major too, as was the Great Midwest, and the A10 as well even though it had a Calipari-coached UMass, Mark Macon running the point at Temple, and Jarvis at GW. Even what made the Big East great back in its day when it got its start was an unbelievable cadre of legendary coaches and the uniqueness of an unprecedented tv exposure on a nascent ESPN channel. That isn't the case this time, though. I hope it isn't true, but losing Stevens was a big blow even before the league got started, I'm afraid. JTIII doesn't have the cache of his dad. Wright is heading to the hot seat. Lavin has to get SJU to regain its stature, and quickly. Honestly losing UConn, Memphis, and Larry Brown at SMU in the split hurt more than most think and I think it is going to hurt having the northeast power teams split up between the Big East, American, ACC, A10, and Big Ten. If you are familiar with Dave Gavitt's thoughts on a split of the power base in the northeast back in the 80s, well, I wouldn't be feeling very comfortable (that goes for Pitt and SU as well) because his worst nightmare has now essentially come to fruition. The Big East circa 1982-1991 is not coming back, IMO.

(09-06-2013 02:59 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 02:17 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 12:37 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:47 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  I don't know. It would be great for Duquesne and the city if it could get in to the Big East, but I don't know if they'd ever overcome the shadow of Pitt and regularly draw. Dayton draws better than Pitt. I think Dayton is a much better addition from a pure program perspective even if Duquesne was winning. Now out of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU, perhaps you could make an argument for the Dukes. But Pittsburgh's hoops scene has plenty of flaws. There is a reason the NBA isn't considered viable in the city and the recruiting grounds are bare. But as you said, Duquesne has to win and make some NCAA tournaments before they can even get in a conversation about getting in the conversation, for which I'm certainly not holding my breath.

And for good reason as Duquesne has been a joke for a very long time now. However, if - and it's admittedly a BIG if - Duquesne ever were to decide to get serious about competing in men's basketball, they would draw just fine and would easily fill up Palumbo and/or the lower bowl of Consol. And, in time, and for big games, they might even fill up both levels of Consol.

Remember, this wouldn't be St. Joseph's and St. Bonaventure coming to town, it would be schools like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's - all well known and well respected commodities in Pittsburgh. Perhaps even more so than some of Pitt's new ACC foes?

I'm just saying that the natural resources are there. Duquesne is a good school with a ton of local alums - many of whom are quite successful and who would support their program if the program warranted such support.

The Dukes also have a state-of-the-art arena literally located across the street from their Uptown campus.

How many schools have that many things going for them who would also expand their television reach into a top 25 US market? Not many.

So I agree entirely that without a FIRM commitment from them to upgrade their recruiting. facilities, etc., this is all moot. Where I disagree is in the assertion that it couldn't work if they did commit. It absolutely could work if Duquesne wanted it to work.

The Dukes could easily replicate what Xavier has done in Cincinnati, Butler in Indianapolis and what schools like St. Louis, Providence and Villanova have done in their respective cities. However you have to pay to play and for too long Duquesne has been content to sit on the sidelines and be a fringe mid-major A-10 team. That option is quickly drying up and the leadership at Duquesne had better recognize it soon or they are going to be joining Robert Morris in the NEC before it is all said and done.

I'm not sure it would work if they did commit, at least to the level that it would work at other places that are the primary show in their respective town, but the word commit is sort of loaded with conditional vagueness. Playing more regularly, as they are, at the Consol shows some improved commitment. They played WVU and Xavier last year at the Consol and drew a reported 6.2K and 6.5K respectively but I have a feeling that was generously reported. I remember them playing fairly highly ranked teams to pretty sparse crowds. And I just don't know if Georgetown and Villanova resonate in Pittsburgh like they did in the 1980s when they were elite powers, and I don't know if those schools are going to retain that high major status down the road anyway.

Maybe you are right, and all it would take would be for Duquesne to win. I wish they would get in the Big East. I'm also pretty sure that is a pipe dream, unfortunately, and I would agree with the other poster they are behind the Flyers and the Bilikens no matter what because I think it is a mistake for the BE to just go after media markets...and I think that is why the BE took Creighton, because they realize that. But for Duquesne, it is now or never if they are going to try to make anything out of that program.

Why would they be dropped to mid-major level? I know the ACC would love for that to happen but thats not really in the cards. It's like an AAC fan wishing the ACC drops out of the P5. It's not going to happen, no matter how much posters and some people want it to. The TV people have already backed them as a major conference.

I have no personal wish for that to happen. I hope it doesn't because I am a fan of many of the Big East teams (in fact, Lou Carnesecca is one of my all-time favorite coaches), but the writing is on the wall with the way things are moving. Not division realignment, just the matter of $. And I don't blame anyone for questioning that, and I hope it isn't true, but ask yourself why Villanova was so desperate to add football to either get into the Big East football league and was begging to get into the ACC? Why did UConn move its football up? The writing is on the wall, I'm afraid, even a decade ago. You know, CUSA with Louisville, Cincy and Memphis in their prime was a mid-major too, as was the Great Midwest, and the A10 as well even with a Calipari-coached UMass, a Mark Macon running the point at Temple, and Jarvis at GW.

Villanova is very happy they didn't move their FB up. Also when were they begging the ACC for entrance? You must have them mistaken with one of the former FB playing members of the Big East.

The conference has about as much money as the other BBall programs in the P5. The schools don't have to sponsor a very expensive sport like FB. Each school is making over 4 mil a year in TV money and the top schools in the conference all have lucrative contracts with either Nike or Under Armour. They are in no position to be left behind in the money race.

UConn certainly wishes it didn't move up the ladder. They would have been making more TV money from their BBall in the BE than it would make from both FB and BBall in the AAC.

It seems like the former Big East members really hope we fail, no matter what they say publicly. It would support the narrative that the C7 were the ones holding everyone of the FB schools back and they can then justify their dishonesty to their conference mates. At least thats the way it comes across to me.

(09-05-2013 11:06 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  I could see the AAC actually being the ones to add Witchita State, Dayton, VCU and maybe the Philly schools. I would love to get St Louis, but they are probably headed towards the Big East.

Ditto. If we add those 4, we're better than the Big East. If we stay pat, the Big East is better than us (at basketball). It's as simple as that.

On the other hand, if the Big East adds two of those, then they become a serious national force (not that they aren't formidable already).

I am definitely not pulling against either the Big East or the American. I will, however, be interested to see which of those leagues comes out ahead in the men's basketball pecking order. Right now I would say that they are seen as being almost siamese twins of sorts with the American having the edge at the top and the Big East having the depth advantage. I'll be curious to see how that plays itself out 5-10 years from now?

As for Duquesne, there are plenty of perfectly reasonable arguments to be made against the Dukes' inclusion. Their on-court performance over the past several years has been abysmal. I just think there are also a lot of natural resources at the Dukes' disposal and if they ever harnessed those resources they would be every bit as formidable - and in my estimation, MORE formidable - than all of the other schools being discussed.

I do agree that ultimately, this is likely moot and that Duquesne has likely missed the bus on this, which is too bad.

(09-06-2013 03:26 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  It seems like the former Big East members really hope we fail, no matter what they say publicly. It would support the narrative that the C7 were the ones holding everyone of the FB schools back and they can then justify their dishonesty to their conference mates. At least thats the way it comes across to me.

Do you think that WVU, and the ex-BE teams that joined ACC, and the ones that formed the American, are all "united" in that sentiment? Or is one faction pushing that narrative more strongly than others?

-----

As for Duquesne, their continued futility in MBB is a mystery to me. I remember thinking that Ron Everhart was going to turn them around when he was hired in 2006. And he did have some success (NIT once, CBI twice). But overall it just didn't happen (46-50 record in A-10 games).

I knew him when he was an assistant at Tulane. Really good guy. I hope he gets another chance somewhere.

Personally, I'd love to see Bellarmine from here in Louisville move up to the bigs basketball and play in the Big East. They're a team that's proven they can hang with teams in the top tier, Catholic university, and it'd put the Big East back in the heart of basketball crazy Kentucky with a team that both UK and UofL fans could get behind supporting when not watching their respective teams. Do I think that'll happen, however? Not in a million years...but a guy can dream.

(09-05-2013 10:04 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 10:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:57 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  I don't see how you pass on Dayton when you are looking for strong programs. They have consistently had good support.

As for VCU, they are new to being a strong program and they would be the only public school. Plus there is this:
Old Dominion-added football, moving to FBS
North Carolina-Charlotte-added football moving to FBS
USF-added football, moved to FBS
UAB-added football, moved to FBS
South Alabama-added football, moved to FBS
Western Kentucky-had football, moved to FBS
Jacksonville-private, added non-scholarship football

What do those 7 have in common with VCU? They made up the 8 member Sun Belt Conference in the 80s.

Richmond gets it if they want a 6/6 east west split. St. Louis otherwise.

What the hell is North Carolina - Charlotte?

You should change your name if you don't like it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unc_charlotte

"The University of North Carolina at Charlotte, also known as UNC Charlotte, UNCC, or Charlotte"

I'm with you on the Name change, but none of those are near "North Carolina - Charlotte". That's like someone called VaTech "Virginia - Polytech Institute".

Sounds like you're pretty hung up on it. A "-" is shorter than "at."
He didn't complain when you called his school "VaTech."

Why not just add Dayton, Richmond and Saint Louis and go to 13? Is it really that much worse than 12? I'm sure if the networks are willing to keep the revenue per school at 12 teams the same as it was at 10 - or even increasing it - that there wouldn't be much issue getting them to do the same for 13.

VCU would be a great fit...if they weren't a medium-large public university in a state/region (GA/NC/VA) where schools are adding football and/or looking to move up to FBS. VCU's AD said a year or two ago it wasn't a matter of if, but when, they would add football. They should be using their basketball success to drum up support for football and look to join the AAC (better basketball than ODU and Charlotte gets them into a slightly better conference than C-USA).

Divisions aren't necessary in hoops, are they? The Big East didn't do it. The ACC doesn't. The SEC abandoned theirs. As did the A-10.

If a 14th school ever becomes strong enough then you think about adding them 10-20+ years from the next expansion and go from there.

The problem is that Richmond like it or not is not the #1 team in their own city right now. They just aren't. It's VCU. If Richmond had VCU's credentials, they would have been in right now. Just don't see the big east adding Richmond for the near future unless Richmond rebounds. You bring up, well Richmond was sweet 16 in 2011. True, but at the same time VCU was in the final 4.

(09-06-2013 12:07 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 09:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  id really like to see dayton/uconn/umass in the big east and have their football programs join butler, villanova & georgtown find a way to jumpstart big east FCS football

That is pretty funny having UConn and UMass move down to FCS...

Seriously though, I don't think it would be a bad move for UConn to move to the BE in BB and the MAC in FB.....UConn gets to once again play with its rivals in the Big East basketball while the football team has to deal with less travel and an easier schedule.

The MAC could work something out where it gets an MWC type TV deal where UConn would be paid bonuses for appearing on ESPN.

If UConn could make 3 million in BE basketball and 1.2 million in MAC football that would be a lot better than making 1.7 million all sports in the AAC and taking a whipping in FB every year.

the big east wants nothing to do with any FBS schools. they are afraid they will lose them if the p5 ever expands. they are building for the next 50 years not the next 5

I really do like the big concept and would go to 14 instead of 12 with umass, dayton, VCU and st louis. That makes for a nice 7&7 e/w split. Breakdown would be 11 catholic school's, 2 public and 1 private...football = umass but they are in the mac. I even like getting bigger and jumping to 16 or 18 but that would be dependent on getting school's like uconn, temple, cincy or byu to join, they can worry about football only spots or indy status. I guess i could add wichita state to the mix and another eastern school to get to 16 if the aac school's don't work out. I like safety in numbers and creating the best hoop league out of the leftovers from the power football conferences. What i don't' like is going 100% private or catholic school's.

If the Big East could get UConn, they'd take them. The possibility of loosing them is definitely there, but talking one or at most two members who play I-A football is very different than half the conference. There aren't any other programs right now that jump out as the Big East definitely needing/wanting (several that work, but none that stand out as must gets) so the worst that would happen is the Big East would take them now, loose them later, and replace with possibly the same teams it would get now (possibly with one or two jumping ahead in that time).

That said, UConn is not going. If that was going to happen, it would have happened before now. UConn probably feels football is just too important and they don't want to risk loosing the American even if it's not what the old Big East was.

My guess is SLU/Richmond. The AD commented the other day that it would likely be 1 east and 1 west team.

SLU looks a lot better than UD obviously just in terms of everything. Fan support is high at UD but they've done absolutely nothing in the last 20 years or so. No players drafted. 4 NCAA tournament appearances....1 win. No conference championships (regular season). 1 conference tournament championship.

People will say because I'm an X fan I don't want them in. That's not true. Fact is we've owned UD time and time again. Just look at our record vs. them in the last 30 years. They haven't won in Cincinnati in 32 years. It's not much of a rivalry to Xavier fans, as you've all seen we view UC as our biggest rival. Butler might be 2nd already honestly.

I'd be fine with them in because that's a GUARANTEED win every single year, but I'd rather have a team come in that adds more to the conference.

They weren't included for a reason.

Richmond I just see as a major problem because they don't come close right now to owning their city.

I mean, this year, VCU will be on national TV at least 20 times.
Richmond will be on national TV 7 times with the A10 schedule(to 14 for VCU). don't have the OOC tv sched yet, but looks like 3-4 times. So like 10-11 times.

Unfortunately all of the non-public school candidates don't own their city, with the possible exception of St. Louis-but even then I'd think Missouri and Illinois would have plenty to say there.

Wichita State and VCU fare a little better in that regard, but as public schools, they carry a different set of baggage-that may preclude them being invited.

but you see that's the thing-
St Louis maybe not with Missouri and Illinois- look those are SEC/Big Ten teams. Nothing wrong there... A lot different competing with Missouri/Illinois, than competing(and getting further and further behind) with VCU- a team that 5-6 years ago you were ahead of. If the 2 trajectories continues, in 10 years, VCU will be so far ahead of Richmond that it's not even remotely close.

The home-and-home schedule will be great this year in the Big East (Big 12 and WCC, etc, do this too). I think most fans of other conferences wish they had the opportunity to do this. That would be my main point against expanding to 12.

yeah, I agree the home and home schedule is huge. Also eliminates the random part of who do you miss which is great.

Could maybe see going to 11, but keeping the home and home- so 20 conference games.