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Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 07:21 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Why didn't the 10 football schools just separate and create their own conference? This includes when TCU and Boise were in the mix. Nice 10 team grouping with some great schools. Hoops would've still been excellent.

Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, West Va, Boise, TCU, Rutgers, South Fla, Cincy, Connecticut. Basketball home and homes. Firmly hold northeast football eyes. Instead, there was this backstabbing rush for lifeboats... these mighty schools couldnt together continue building a great league?

Because it is bigger than the basketball schools ever seemed to understand.

Let's say we had gone in that direction (which, BTW, I agree we should have long ago). Do you honestly think TCU would have turned down the B12's offer when it eventually came along? Of course not. They would have left in a heartbeat - as well they should.

The same goes for Boise State and the Pac-12 and anyone else you can name. Why? Because this is so much bigger than the basketball schools seemed/seem to realize.

Look around, guys. The ACC was not the only league to expand, just about everyone did. And schools like Pitt, West Virginia, Syracuse, etc., understood that the financial paradigm had shifted to the point that football needed to be their only real priority going forward.

What some folks don't seem to understand is that for the schools that left, we all upgraded our circumstance and in most cases dramatically so.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2013 07:46 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
09-07-2013 07:38 AM
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Flying Bearcat Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-06-2013 04:29 PM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 01:56 PM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 01:20 PM)Flying Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 12:15 PM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  My guess is SLU/Richmond. The AD commented the other day that it would likely be 1 east and 1 west team.

SLU looks a lot better than UD obviously just in terms of everything. Fan support is high at UD but they've done absolutely nothing in the last 20 years or so. No players drafted. 4 NCAA tournament appearances....1 win. No conference championships (regular season). 1 conference tournament championship.

People will say because I'm an X fan I don't want them in. That's not true. Fact is we've owned UD time and time again. Just look at our record vs. them in the last 30 years. They haven't won in Cincinnati in 32 years. It's not much of a rivalry to Xavier fans, as you've all seen we view UC as our biggest rival. Butler might be 2nd already honestly.

I'd be fine with them in because that's a GUARANTEED win every single year, but I'd rather have a team come in that adds more to the conference.

They weren't included for a reason.

And yet we split last year winning on our own home courts... 07-coffee3


When was the last time you beat us twice in the same year?

Also not to mention its great you went 1-1 against us last year when it is your superbowl. That's awesome for UD and it's fan. Unfortunately the criteria to get a nice invite didn't go something like. Well did they beat Xavier at home?

I know you want to measure your program to ours, but the fact is we've spread our wings and flown higher than you can see for the past 15 years. But don't worry we're up there somewhere. :)

No hard feelings. 04-cheers
09-07-2013 08:01 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 07:22 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Well, how the hell does my wife hear this rumor from her couch in Pittsburgh on a Friday night and Marinatto doesn't find out about it until Saturday morning while he's sitting in a press box in Morgantown, WV? He was either lying or grossly incompetent and either way, I'm glad we left that mess.
Don't rule out a combination of both.

I'm glad things worked out for the Panthers. Their fans made a positive impression on me & my family at the two Pitt/Georgia Sugar Bowls in '77-'82. This was in stark contrast to the Penn State and Notre Dame fans we encountered at two other Sugar Bowls from the same time period.
09-07-2013 08:36 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
Oh yeah, there's no question about that. Pitt and Penn State fans are night and day different from each other. That is the ONE thing each side agrees on. My sister's best friend is a Tulane grad and got married in New Orleans and that was an AWESOME time! Also, Tulane's campus was unbelievably cool. There is no place in America quite like New Orleans, IMHO.
09-07-2013 09:18 AM
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lofi Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 07:22 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I have told this story before but it fits so I'll tell it again.

A few weeks before Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving the Big East for the ACC, I was driving home from a vacation my wife and I had taken to the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Regrettably, we opted against a pretentious OBX bumper sticker. We were sans children at the time or as I like to call them, "the good old days!"

Anyway, that day was the opening weekend of CFB and West Virginia was playing Marshall. We were tired of listening to music and I was curious to hear what their announcers were like/status of the game/etc. so we turned on the radio to give it a listen. Well, we didn't have it on for two minutes before that game was delayed by inclement weather (which we were also driving through).

The delay lasted a very long time - at least two hours - and to fill time, the announcers basically turned it into a WVU football talk show. Well, caller after caller after caller talked about West Virginia's need to get out of the Big East and how being in the BE was killing their program and all the rest. They also basically said, "whatever happens to everyone else happens." The announcers agreed and would elaborate on those points.

Then, at some point, WVU AD Oliver Luck joined them and he too echoed those sentiments and openly discussed all of the reasons WVU had to get out of the Big East and how they were first in the pecking order of schools looking to leave the league.

I was very surprised to hear an AD of a league school openly talk about leaving and even more surprised to hear him "big time" everyone else. And yet there Luck was doing just that and ad nauseum.

It went on for a good 45 minutes to an hour and Luck's points were well made. However, it was also during that drive that I told my wife, "Pitt needs to get serious about getting the hell out of this godforsaken league or we're going to be left behind." I knew that once one or two schools left, everyone who could go would go. I also knew that it was very likely that at least some schools would be left behind and I did not want to be one of those schools.

My wife chided me to relax and that it would all work out but I was very disturbed by what I was listening to and I knew that the end was nigh for BE football.

In the next day or two, I read an account that the Big 12 was interested in Arkansas, Notre Dame and Pitt. I knew ND would turn them down and I suspected Arky would too but, given what I thought were our alternatives, I was all for Pitt going. At the time the B12 was at nine or 10 teams depending on what Missouri decided to do and my thought was to wait that deal out, then partner with West Virginia and either Syracuse (my preference), Rutgers or Louisville as the final B12 team. I just knew that we had to get out.

Then a few weeks later, late on a FRIDAY night, my wife was reading her twitter feed or Facebook account and she informed me that there was a rumor floating around that said Pitt and Syracuse were going to the ACC. I told her that all sorts of rumors had been floating around and that I wouldn't hold my breath.

Well, the next morning we woke up around 10 a.m. or so and my phone had like five or six texts that all said weird things like, "Yeah, baby!" and "Thank God!" Finally, one just said, "ACC!" And the final one, from my traditionalist friend, Ken said, "Bad move! We're going to regret this."

I then turned on College Gameday and saw a graphic with our logo, Syracuse's logo and the ACC logo and I knew what had happened and was not thrilled as much as I was relieved. I knew that not everyone was going to make it off the island and I was just glad that we had.

In fact, I was so relieved by that news that later that day, Todd Graham blew a 27-10 second half lead at Iowa by continuing to run a no huddle hurry-up offense - like an imbecile - and that gave the Hawkeyes just enough time to come back and win. However, and surprisingly, I didn't really care about that because I knew then that our long term future had been secured.

Well, how the hell does my wife hear this rumor from her couch in Pittsburgh on a Friday night and Marinatto doesn't find out about it until Saturday morning while he's sitting in a press box in Morgantown, WV? He was either lying or grossly incompetent and either way, I'm glad we left that mess.
I remember that Friday and Saturday night you mention. Marinatto had to be flat out lying. Everybody and I mean everybody was reporting on the rumors that Friday night. By Saturday it was a done deal.
Marinatto may have not been the best it his job but there is no way he wasn't aware of the defections.
09-07-2013 09:33 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 06:51 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Are you honestly suggesting that everything was honky-dory until the day Pitt and Syracuse left? Is that really your belief or is this something more cynical?

Do you not remember the 10,000 strong disagreements between the football-playing schools and the basketball-only schools that preceded it?

Do you not remember West Virginia and Louisville openly playing footsie with the SEC and anyone else who would listen for the year leading up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departures?

Do you not recall the league's ill advised attempt to strong arm the football schools into accepting Villanova as a football-playing member despite the fact that Villanova had no gameday or practice facilities and no intent to build either?

If you want to point to any "aha! moment" for me as to when I absolutely knew Pitt had to leave, the Villanova debacle was it. It was clear at that point that we had all grown in different directions and Pitt needed to get the hell out of dodge when a good opportunity came along, which, fortunately we did. That truly was an absurd idea on every level and everyone knew it at the time.

Are we really going to ignore all of that and pretend that it didn't happen to push your foolish narrative?

As for ESPN's television proposal, a lot of schools opposed it and those schools were subsequently all proven right. However, the fact that there was such strong disagreement at all, and more importantly that it became public, probably gives you a window into why so many schools left when they had the chance.

However, the schools who led the charge against accepting ESPN's deal did not fall under "football" or "basketball" schools - just schools who knew the league's value and those who did not.

In addition to Pitt, Rutgers also opposed it. Do you think the Scarlet Knights opposed it because they knew a Big Ten offer was coming a year or so later or because Tim Pernetti, a former TV exec, knew the deal was undervalued? Also, Notre Dame and Georgetown opposed it. Were they trying to kill the league too?

Pitt and Syracuse didn't kill the Big East, Roy Kramer did when he implemented the BCS and started all of this conference realignment in the first place.
I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead
09-07-2013 10:16 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-06-2013 04:08 PM)CameramanJ Wrote:  If the BEast goes to 12, I would say take St. Louis and Dayton. St. Louis bridges the gap to Creighton, Dayton strengthens the center of the footprint. Decent teams at the very least.

Duquesne would fill that gap in the footprint around Lake Erie, but that's about it. Not worth it.

I think that SLU is #11, and the fight is over who is #12. And I think that after the experience of being in a mixed public/private conference, the original C7 is going to be against VCU.

Whether its Richmond or Dayton ~ well, it seems likely that there are Presidents in favor of each one, which is why the expansion decision hasn't been announced yet.
09-07-2013 12:53 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 06:51 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Are you honestly suggesting that everything was honky-dory until the day Pitt and Syracuse left? Is that really your belief or is this something more cynical?

Do you not remember the 10,000 strong disagreements between the football-playing schools and the basketball-only schools that preceded it?

Do you not remember West Virginia and Louisville openly playing footsie with the SEC and anyone else who would listen for the year leading up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departures?

Do you not recall the league's ill advised attempt to strong arm the football schools into accepting Villanova as a football-playing member despite the fact that Villanova had no gameday or practice facilities and no intent to build either?

If you want to point to any "aha! moment" for me as to when I absolutely knew Pitt had to leave, the Villanova debacle was it. It was clear at that point that we had all grown in different directions and Pitt needed to get the hell out of dodge when a good opportunity came along, which, fortunately we did. That truly was an absurd idea on every level and everyone knew it at the time.

Are we really going to ignore all of that and pretend that it didn't happen to push your foolish narrative?

As for ESPN's television proposal, a lot of schools opposed it and those schools were subsequently all proven right. However, the fact that there was such strong disagreement at all, and more importantly that it became public, probably gives you a window into why so many schools left when they had the chance.

However, the schools who led the charge against accepting ESPN's deal did not fall under "football" or "basketball" schools - just schools who knew the league's value and those who did not.

In addition to Pitt, Rutgers also opposed it. Do you think the Scarlet Knights opposed it because they knew a Big Ten offer was coming a year or so later or because Tim Pernetti, a former TV exec, knew the deal was undervalued? Also, Notre Dame and Georgetown opposed it. Were they trying to kill the league too?

Pitt and Syracuse didn't kill the Big East, Roy Kramer did when he implemented the BCS and started all of this conference realignment in the first place.
I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead

Thank you Bit! I wasn't saying anyone was without blame but to try and paint it like Pitt had no choice. They definitely had a choice. They all could have stuck together, but thats been the story of northeastern FB for eternity. No trust.

Thats why I like the new Big East. We all like being in a conference with each other and no one is looking at their phones hoping a text comes through saying they can leave.

The narrative that it was all the BBall schools fault is unfair and untrue. Just a way to justify a schools actions.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2013 02:01 PM by NJRedMan.)
09-07-2013 01:55 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 06:51 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Are you honestly suggesting that everything was honky-dory until the day Pitt and Syracuse left? Is that really your belief or is this something more cynical?

Do you not remember the 10,000 strong disagreements between the football-playing schools and the basketball-only schools that preceded it?

Do you not remember West Virginia and Louisville openly playing footsie with the SEC and anyone else who would listen for the year leading up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departures?

Do you not recall the league's ill advised attempt to strong arm the football schools into accepting Villanova as a football-playing member despite the fact that Villanova had no gameday or practice facilities and no intent to build either?

If you want to point to any "aha! moment" for me as to when I absolutely knew Pitt had to leave, the Villanova debacle was it. It was clear at that point that we had all grown in different directions and Pitt needed to get the hell out of dodge when a good opportunity came along, which, fortunately we did. That truly was an absurd idea on every level and everyone knew it at the time.

Are we really going to ignore all of that and pretend that it didn't happen to push your foolish narrative?

As for ESPN's television proposal, a lot of schools opposed it and those schools were subsequently all proven right. However, the fact that there was such strong disagreement at all, and more importantly that it became public, probably gives you a window into why so many schools left when they had the chance.

However, the schools who led the charge against accepting ESPN's deal did not fall under "football" or "basketball" schools - just schools who knew the league's value and those who did not.

In addition to Pitt, Rutgers also opposed it. Do you think the Scarlet Knights opposed it because they knew a Big Ten offer was coming a year or so later or because Tim Pernetti, a former TV exec, knew the deal was undervalued? Also, Notre Dame and Georgetown opposed it. Were they trying to kill the league too?

Pitt and Syracuse didn't kill the Big East, Roy Kramer did when he implemented the BCS and started all of this conference realignment in the first place.
I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead
Thank you Bit! I wasn't saying anyone was without blame but to try and paint it like Pitt had no choice. They definitely had a choice. They all could have stuck together, but thats been the story of northeastern FB for eternity. No trust.

Thats why I like the new Big East. We all like being in a conference with each other and no one is looking at their phones hoping a text comes through saying they can leave.

The narrative that it was all the BBall schools fault is unfair and untrue. Just a way to justify a schools actions.
If the football schools had wanted to be on the same page, they'd have formed a new conference in 1990, instead of trying to bring football to The BEast. They tried to build a football conference in the east without any kind of foundation. The building was doomed to fall...
09-07-2013 02:16 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 02:16 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 06:51 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Are you honestly suggesting that everything was honky-dory until the day Pitt and Syracuse left? Is that really your belief or is this something more cynical?

Do you not remember the 10,000 strong disagreements between the football-playing schools and the basketball-only schools that preceded it?

Do you not remember West Virginia and Louisville openly playing footsie with the SEC and anyone else who would listen for the year leading up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departures?

Do you not recall the league's ill advised attempt to strong arm the football schools into accepting Villanova as a football-playing member despite the fact that Villanova had no gameday or practice facilities and no intent to build either?

If you want to point to any "aha! moment" for me as to when I absolutely knew Pitt had to leave, the Villanova debacle was it. It was clear at that point that we had all grown in different directions and Pitt needed to get the hell out of dodge when a good opportunity came along, which, fortunately we did. That truly was an absurd idea on every level and everyone knew it at the time.

Are we really going to ignore all of that and pretend that it didn't happen to push your foolish narrative?

As for ESPN's television proposal, a lot of schools opposed it and those schools were subsequently all proven right. However, the fact that there was such strong disagreement at all, and more importantly that it became public, probably gives you a window into why so many schools left when they had the chance.

However, the schools who led the charge against accepting ESPN's deal did not fall under "football" or "basketball" schools - just schools who knew the league's value and those who did not.

In addition to Pitt, Rutgers also opposed it. Do you think the Scarlet Knights opposed it because they knew a Big Ten offer was coming a year or so later or because Tim Pernetti, a former TV exec, knew the deal was undervalued? Also, Notre Dame and Georgetown opposed it. Were they trying to kill the league too?

Pitt and Syracuse didn't kill the Big East, Roy Kramer did when he implemented the BCS and started all of this conference realignment in the first place.
I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead
Thank you Bit! I wasn't saying anyone was without blame but to try and paint it like Pitt had no choice. They definitely had a choice. They all could have stuck together, but thats been the story of northeastern FB for eternity. No trust.

Thats why I like the new Big East. We all like being in a conference with each other and no one is looking at their phones hoping a text comes through saying they can leave.

The narrative that it was all the BBall schools fault is unfair and untrue. Just a way to justify a schools actions.
If the football schools had wanted to be on the same page, they'd have formed a new conference in 1990, instead of trying to bring football to The BEast. They tried to build a football conference in the east without any kind of foundation. The building was doomed to fall...

And thats because Pitt, Cuse and BC wanted their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be in their top notch BBall league but also have a FB conference.

I feel bad for UConn. In 1997 the conference gave them (as well as Villanova) the option to bump up it's FB program. Uconn said yes, Nova said no. No way anyone in 1997 would have predicted what we have here today. Sixteen years ago looks like a thousand right now.
09-07-2013 02:31 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 02:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:16 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 06:51 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Are you honestly suggesting that everything was honky-dory until the day Pitt and Syracuse left? Is that really your belief or is this something more cynical?

Do you not remember the 10,000 strong disagreements between the football-playing schools and the basketball-only schools that preceded it?

Do you not remember West Virginia and Louisville openly playing footsie with the SEC and anyone else who would listen for the year leading up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departures?

Do you not recall the league's ill advised attempt to strong arm the football schools into accepting Villanova as a football-playing member despite the fact that Villanova had no gameday or practice facilities and no intent to build either?

If you want to point to any "aha! moment" for me as to when I absolutely knew Pitt had to leave, the Villanova debacle was it. It was clear at that point that we had all grown in different directions and Pitt needed to get the hell out of dodge when a good opportunity came along, which, fortunately we did. That truly was an absurd idea on every level and everyone knew it at the time.

Are we really going to ignore all of that and pretend that it didn't happen to push your foolish narrative?

As for ESPN's television proposal, a lot of schools opposed it and those schools were subsequently all proven right. However, the fact that there was such strong disagreement at all, and more importantly that it became public, probably gives you a window into why so many schools left when they had the chance.

However, the schools who led the charge against accepting ESPN's deal did not fall under "football" or "basketball" schools - just schools who knew the league's value and those who did not.

In addition to Pitt, Rutgers also opposed it. Do you think the Scarlet Knights opposed it because they knew a Big Ten offer was coming a year or so later or because Tim Pernetti, a former TV exec, knew the deal was undervalued? Also, Notre Dame and Georgetown opposed it. Were they trying to kill the league too?

Pitt and Syracuse didn't kill the Big East, Roy Kramer did when he implemented the BCS and started all of this conference realignment in the first place.
I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead
Thank you Bit! I wasn't saying anyone was without blame but to try and paint it like Pitt had no choice. They definitely had a choice. They all could have stuck together, but thats been the story of northeastern FB for eternity. No trust.

Thats why I like the new Big East. We all like being in a conference with each other and no one is looking at their phones hoping a text comes through saying they can leave.

The narrative that it was all the BBall schools fault is unfair and untrue. Just a way to justify a schools actions.
If the football schools had wanted to be on the same page, they'd have formed a new conference in 1990, instead of trying to bring football to The BEast. They tried to build a football conference in the east without any kind of foundation. The building was doomed to fall...
And thats because Pitt, Cuse and BC wanted their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be in their top notch BBall league but also have a FB conference.

I feel bad for UConn. In 1997 the conference gave them (as well as Villanova) the option to bump up it's FB program. Uconn said yes, Nova said no. No way anyone in 1997 would have predicted what we have here today. Sixteen years ago looks like a thousand right now.
And that decision is what caused Miami, Syracuse, and BC to start looking towards the ACC. Syracuse's jump to the ACC got delayed for a decade by the Virginia legislature. But that didn't matter in the end...

The BEast learned nothing in the interim, and tried to persuade Villanova to upgrade one more time. That was the last straw...
09-07-2013 02:49 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead

Oh, baloney!

I didn't misrepresent anything. You are right in that I did not mention the Syracuse thing back in '03 because I didn't feel the need to rehash every single thing that led up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departure. I'm sure I could go back as far as anyone would like if that is what you wanted.

For example, in 1949 Pitt applied for membership to the Big Ten and was informally accepted. The problem for Pitt is that they did not realize that their invitation had been informal. So Pitt's administration had a party and sent out a press release announcing the move and all the rest of it. In fact there is an infamous photo out there in Internet land of the headline heralding the move from the long defunct Pittsburgh Press. It is sort of like Pitt's very own Dewey Defeats Truman moment.

The problem was that the final vote had not yet taken place and through some political shenanigans that were similar to what happened with Syracuse in the early part of the aughts, Pitt was ultimately out and Michigan State was in.

That is a true story and I didn't include that either. I also didn't include that West Virginia has lobbied the ACC for admission, to rejoin its former Southern Conference rivals, just about every few years since that league's 1953 formation.

My point was not to exonerate anyone for their actions - including Pitt. My point was, is and will always be that everything was definitely NOT fine up until the moment Pitt and Syracuse ruined everything. THAT is BLATANT historical revisionism of the highest order and I refuse to participate in that dishonesty.

None of this has ever been about villains or scapegoats. Instead it has always been about a bunch of loosely affiliated entities looking after their own self interests. In 2011, Pitt and Syracuse saw an opportunity to secure their respective futures by partnering with the likes of North Carolina, Florida State and Clemson, or roll the dice and stick with teams like Villanova, South Florida and DePaul.

Judging by how things have transpired since their decision, I would say that it is painfully obvious that they chose extremely wisely.
09-07-2013 02:54 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 02:49 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:16 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead
Thank you Bit! I wasn't saying anyone was without blame but to try and paint it like Pitt had no choice. They definitely had a choice. They all could have stuck together, but thats been the story of northeastern FB for eternity. No trust.

Thats why I like the new Big East. We all like being in a conference with each other and no one is looking at their phones hoping a text comes through saying they can leave.

The narrative that it was all the BBall schools fault is unfair and untrue. Just a way to justify a schools actions.
If the football schools had wanted to be on the same page, they'd have formed a new conference in 1990, instead of trying to bring football to The BEast. They tried to build a football conference in the east without any kind of foundation. The building was doomed to fall...
And thats because Pitt, Cuse and BC wanted their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be in their top notch BBall league but also have a FB conference.

I feel bad for UConn. In 1997 the conference gave them (as well as Villanova) the option to bump up it's FB program. Uconn said yes, Nova said no. No way anyone in 1997 would have predicted what we have here today. Sixteen years ago looks like a thousand right now.
And that decision is what caused Miami, Syracuse, and BC to start looking towards the ACC. Syracuse's jump to the ACC got delayed for a decade by the Virginia legislature. But that didn't matter in the end...

The BEast learned nothing in the interim, and tried to persuade Villanova to upgrade one more time. That was the last straw...

I don't think that was what caused the looking. It was money. It's always been about money. FB money is like crack to schools. They will do everything and anything to get it.
09-07-2013 02:59 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 02:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:49 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:16 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Thank you Bit! I wasn't saying anyone was without blame but to try and paint it like Pitt had no choice. They definitely had a choice. They all could have stuck together, but thats been the story of northeastern FB for eternity. No trust.

Thats why I like the new Big East. We all like being in a conference with each other and no one is looking at their phones hoping a text comes through saying they can leave.

The narrative that it was all the BBall schools fault is unfair and untrue. Just a way to justify a schools actions.
If the football schools had wanted to be on the same page, they'd have formed a new conference in 1990, instead of trying to bring football to The BEast. They tried to build a football conference in the east without any kind of foundation. The building was doomed to fall...
And thats because Pitt, Cuse and BC wanted their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be in their top notch BBall league but also have a FB conference.

I feel bad for UConn. In 1997 the conference gave them (as well as Villanova) the option to bump up it's FB program. Uconn said yes, Nova said no. No way anyone in 1997 would have predicted what we have here today. Sixteen years ago looks like a thousand right now.
And that decision is what caused Miami, Syracuse, and BC to start looking towards the ACC. Syracuse's jump to the ACC got delayed for a decade by the Virginia legislature. But that didn't matter in the end...

The BEast learned nothing in the interim, and tried to persuade Villanova to upgrade one more time. That was the last straw...
I don't think that was what caused the looking. It was money. It's always been about money. FB money is like crack to schools. They will do everything and anything to get it.
Of course it was about money. But let me ask you a question. If The BEast brings in a mediocre program or 2 (at best, considering they're moving up in class), will that bring the conference more money? Of course it won't. It will hurt everybody in the conference's bottom line, unless they go elsewhere where the money isn't being diminished...
09-07-2013 03:04 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 02:54 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I noticed you blithely ignored Syracuse almost exiting for the ACC in 2004, when they were suddenly cut off by the Virginia legislature. And the fact that both Pitt and Syracuse tried to shop themselves off to the B1G or ACC almost every year afterward. You're trying to make it sound like Pitt and Syracuse were the only schools that were loyal to the Big East, when we all know that's a crock...

Everybody was looking for a way out of the sinking conference that was The BEast, and all of us know it...

Quit trying to rewrite history to make your school appear untarnished. The stain lives on... 03-banghead

Oh, baloney!

I didn't misrepresent anything. You are right in that I did not mention the Syracuse thing back in '03 because I didn't feel the need to rehash every single thing that led up to Pitt's and Syracuse's departure. I'm sure I could go back as far as anyone would like if that is what you wanted.

For example, in 1949 Pitt applied for membership to the Big Ten and was informally accepted. The problem for Pitt is that they did not realize that their invitation had been informal. So Pitt's administration had a party and sent out a press release announcing the move and all the rest of it. In fact there is an infamous photo out there in Internet land of the headline heralding the move from the long defunct Pittsburgh Press. It is sort of like Pitt's very own Dewey Defeats Truman moment.

The problem was that the final vote had not yet taken place and through some political shenanigans that were similar to what happened with Syracuse in the early part of the aughts, Pitt was ultimately out and Michigan State was in.

That is a true story and I didn't include that either. I also didn't include that West Virginia has lobbied the ACC for admission, to rejoin its former Southern Conference rivals, just about every few years since that league's 1953 formation.

My point was not to exonerate anyone for their actions - including Pitt. My point was, is and will always be that everything was definitely NOT fine up until the moment Pitt and Syracuse ruined everything. THAT is BLATANT historical revisionism of the highest order and I refuse to participate in that dishonesty.

None of this has ever been about villains or scapegoats. Instead it has always been about a bunch of loosely affiliated entities looking after their own self interests. In 2011, Pitt and Syracuse saw an opportunity to secure their respective futures by partnering with the likes of North Carolina, Florida State and Clemson, or roll the dice and stick with teams like Villanova, South Florida and DePaul.

Judging by how things have transpired since their decision, I would say that it is painfully obvious that they chose extremely wisely.

I never said everything was fine.
09-07-2013 03:05 PM
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C2__ Online
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Post: #76
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-05-2013 11:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  And for good reason as Duquesne has been a joke for a very long time now. However, if - and it's admittedly a BIG if - Duquesne ever were to decide to get serious about competing in men's basketball, they would draw just fine and would easily fill up Palumbo and/or the lower bowl of Consol. And, in time, and for big games, they might even fill up both levels of Consol.

Remember, this wouldn't be St. Joseph's and St. Bonaventure coming to town, it would be schools like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's - all well known and well respected commodities in Pittsburgh. Perhaps even more so than some of Pitt's new ACC foes?

I'm just saying that the natural resources are there. Duquesne is a good school with a ton of local alums - many of whom are quite successful and who would support their program if the program warranted such support.

The Dukes also have a state-of-the-art arena literally located across the street from their Uptown campus.

How many schools have that many things going for them who would also expand their television reach into a top 25 US market? Not many.

So I agree entirely that without a FIRM commitment from them to upgrade their recruiting. facilities, etc., this is all moot. Where I disagree is in the assertion that it couldn't work if they did commit. It absolutely could work if Duquesne wanted it to work.

The Dukes could easily replicate what Xavier has done in Cincinnati, Butler in Indianapolis and what schools like St. Louis, Providence and Villanova have done in their respective cities. However you have to pay to play and for too long Duquesne has been content to sit on the sidelines and be a fringe mid-major A-10 team. That option is quickly drying up and the leadership at Duquesne had better recognize it soon or they are going to be joining Robert Morris in the NEC before it is all said and done.

And Duquesne has some history, albeit ancient history. I think they used to be a fixture at the Garden and NIT (when it really mattered a lot) in the 1940's and 50's.
09-07-2013 03:10 PM
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LouPower Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
I don't think the Big East is looking at mediocre programs. SLU and VCU did OK recently.
09-07-2013 03:18 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 03:18 PM)LouPower Wrote:  I don't think the Big East is looking at mediocre programs. SLU and VCU did OK recently.

As long as SLU doesn't **** the bed they will be #11.
09-07-2013 03:25 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-06-2013 09:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The problem is that Richmond like it or not is not the #1 team in their own city right now. They just aren't. It's VCU. If Richmond had VCU's credentials, they would have been in right now. Just don't see the big east adding Richmond for the near future unless Richmond rebounds. You bring up, well Richmond was sweet 16 in 2011. True, but at the same time VCU was in the final 4.

They almost met too if not for Kansas. That would have been fun in Richmond I'm sure.
09-07-2013 03:26 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Xavier AD "I think the Big East will expand"
(09-07-2013 03:04 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:49 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 02:16 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  If the football schools had wanted to be on the same page, they'd have formed a new conference in 1990, instead of trying to bring football to The BEast. They tried to build a football conference in the east without any kind of foundation. The building was doomed to fall...
And thats because Pitt, Cuse and BC wanted their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be in their top notch BBall league but also have a FB conference.

I feel bad for UConn. In 1997 the conference gave them (as well as Villanova) the option to bump up it's FB program. Uconn said yes, Nova said no. No way anyone in 1997 would have predicted what we have here today. Sixteen years ago looks like a thousand right now.
And that decision is what caused Miami, Syracuse, and BC to start looking towards the ACC. Syracuse's jump to the ACC got delayed for a decade by the Virginia legislature. But that didn't matter in the end...

The BEast learned nothing in the interim, and tried to persuade Villanova to upgrade one more time. That was the last straw...
I don't think that was what caused the looking. It was money. It's always been about money. FB money is like crack to schools. They will do everything and anything to get it.
Of course it was about money. But let me ask you a question. If The BEast brings in a mediocre program or 2 (at best, considering they're moving up in class), will that bring the conference more money? Of course it won't. It will hurt everybody in the conference's bottom line, unless they go elsewhere where the money isn't being diminished...

There was rumors that this current Big East has a clause in place with Fox that would increase the contract so that each teams pay out remains the same.
09-07-2013 03:35 PM
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