(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:14 AM)ArQ Wrote:  If Syracuse football team is half decent (9 wins in most years), SU can claim being New York's team since it is the only P5 school located in New York State, just like it was before 1993. But in the past ten years, SU football dropped from the very top to the near bottom in Big East. Loyal fans began to seek new teams to root, like Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn and Rutgers. I think the main reason for the decline is the aged Carrier Dome losing the novelty. To revive Syracuse as a football power, they need to build that baseball/football flexible-rooftop stadium with at least 70,000 seats in south campus or downtown and make Carrier Dome basketball only facility.

No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Hopefully some of that funding will find it's way into major upgrades to the dome. I am not one who wants to see it torn down but it really is an aged facility no matter how many new score boards they hang.

It is time for a major face lift.

(09-03-2013 02:35 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:14 AM)ArQ Wrote:  If Syracuse football team is half decent (9 wins in most years), SU can claim being New York's team since it is the only P5 school located in New York State, just like it was before 1993. But in the past ten years, SU football dropped from the very top to the near bottom in Big East. Loyal fans began to seek new teams to root, like Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn and Rutgers. I think the main reason for the decline is the aged Carrier Dome losing the novelty. To revive Syracuse as a football power, they need to build that baseball/football flexible-rooftop stadium with at least 70,000 seats in south campus or downtown and make Carrier Dome basketball only facility.

No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Hopefully some of that funding will find it's way into major upgrades to the dome. I am not one who wants to see it torn down but it really is an aged facility no matter how many new score boards they hang.

It is time for a major face lift.

Totally agree.

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:14 AM)ArQ Wrote:  If Syracuse football team is half decent (9 wins in most years), SU can claim being New York's team since it is the only P5 school located in New York State, just like it was before 1993. But in the past ten years, SU football dropped from the very top to the near bottom in Big East. Loyal fans began to seek new teams to root, like Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn and Rutgers. I think the main reason for the decline is the aged Carrier Dome losing the novelty. To revive Syracuse as a football power, they need to build that baseball/football flexible-rooftop stadium with at least 70,000 seats in south campus or downtown and make Carrier Dome basketball only facility.

No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

(09-03-2013 03:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:14 AM)ArQ Wrote:  If Syracuse football team is half decent (9 wins in most years), SU can claim being New York's team since it is the only P5 school located in New York State, just like it was before 1993. But in the past ten years, SU football dropped from the very top to the near bottom in Big East. Loyal fans began to seek new teams to root, like Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn and Rutgers. I think the main reason for the decline is the aged Carrier Dome losing the novelty. To revive Syracuse as a football power, they need to build that baseball/football flexible-rooftop stadium with at least 70,000 seats in south campus or downtown and make Carrier Dome basketball only facility.

No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

(09-03-2013 07:28 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 03:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:14 AM)ArQ Wrote:  If Syracuse football team is half decent (9 wins in most years), SU can claim being New York's team since it is the only P5 school located in New York State, just like it was before 1993. But in the past ten years, SU football dropped from the very top to the near bottom in Big East. Loyal fans began to seek new teams to root, like Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn and Rutgers. I think the main reason for the decline is the aged Carrier Dome losing the novelty. To revive Syracuse as a football power, they need to build that baseball/football flexible-rooftop stadium with at least 70,000 seats in south campus or downtown and make Carrier Dome basketball only facility.

No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

I actually think that it will be more that a $15 million payout. I thought I saw the ACC making somewhere in the neighborhood of $17/18 million/school last year and the BIG EAST payouts were usually around $8 million. That's $10 million even before CFB, and not counting ticket sales from an arguably improved bball schedule and an undeniably improved football schedule. Combined, I can see that being near a $15 million increase.

(09-03-2013 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:28 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 03:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:14 AM)ArQ Wrote:  If Syracuse football team is half decent (9 wins in most years), SU can claim being New York's team since it is the only P5 school located in New York State, just like it was before 1993. But in the past ten years, SU football dropped from the very top to the near bottom in Big East. Loyal fans began to seek new teams to root, like Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn and Rutgers. I think the main reason for the decline is the aged Carrier Dome losing the novelty. To revive Syracuse as a football power, they need to build that baseball/football flexible-rooftop stadium with at least 70,000 seats in south campus or downtown and make Carrier Dome basketball only facility.

No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

I actually think that it will be more that a $15 million payout. I thought I saw the ACC making somewhere in the neighborhood of $17/18 million/school last year and the BIG EAST payouts were usually around $8 million. That's $10 million even before CFB, and not counting ticket sales from an arguably improved bball schedule and an undeniably improved football schedule. Combined, I can see that being near a $15 million increase.

Not sure how you figure the basketball schedule will be improved this year. Last year only four ACC teams made the tournament, and two of them Miami and NC State, look like they'll be down this year and will struggle to make it back to the tournament. UNC and Duke are obviously great teams to have, but there are a lot of ugly ducklings at the bottom of the league. I doubt you'll have more good games at home this year than you did last season.

(09-03-2013 09:31 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:28 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 03:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

I actually think that it will be more that a $15 million payout. I thought I saw the ACC making somewhere in the neighborhood of $17/18 million/school last year and the BIG EAST payouts were usually around $8 million. That's $10 million even before CFB, and not counting ticket sales from an arguably improved bball schedule and an undeniably improved football schedule. Combined, I can see that being near a $15 million increase.

Not sure how you figure the basketball schedule will be improved this year. Last year only four ACC teams made the tournament, and two of them Miami and NC State, look like they'll be down this year and will struggle to make it back to the tournament. UNC and Duke are obviously great teams to have, but there are a lot of ugly ducklings at the bottom of the league. I doubt you'll have more good games at home this year than you did last season.

fewer good home games.....but better quality home games. and i think thats a pretty fair tradeoff. we cant have the big east styled mentality anymore of having a weak ooc and brutal conference schedule. now we have to take the new ACC mentality which is a cross between the big east mentality and old acc mentality. which is load your occ with a few medium opponents and one tough opponent.

sure we lost a lot of good conf games and replaced them with only two elite teams. but you have to look at the ooc. the only reason we have IU is because of the ACC-b10 challenge.

i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

(09-03-2013 09:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

I think that Georgetown was and is pretty solidly our rival. UCONN was and is an admirable 2nd, with Nova and STJ fighting for #3, depending on who is good.

It's interesting that you say UL. I'm not sure that the cards are in our top 5.

EDIT: I also think that the BIG EAST was MUCH better in March than people give it credit for. Anyway, if there was a collapse, IMO, it was because of different officiating styles. BE bball was a brawl, whereas that kind of rough play doesn't fly in other conferences.

(09-03-2013 09:31 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:28 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 03:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:14 PM)orangefan Wrote:  No doubt the Dome has lost its novelty, but in my view "declining" attendance is primarily the result of "increasing" ticket prices. The average ticket price for an SU basketball game last year was $70. Remember that great sellout against Georgetown? Folks sitting 100 yards+ from the court in the opposite endzone were zinged over $40 per ticket. Many P5 schools can't even get that for lower bowl seats.

The result, though, has been a huge increase in overall revenues. Since Dr. Gross has become AD, athletic revenues are up over 100%. Just a few years ago, we generated $40-45 million in athletic revenues. The last two years its been $75 million+, with no significant increase in TV revenues. With the move to the ACC, anticipated revenues for 2014-15 will exceed $90 million.

Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

I actually think that it will be more that a $15 million payout. I thought I saw the ACC making somewhere in the neighborhood of $17/18 million/school last year and the BIG EAST payouts were usually around $8 million. That's $10 million even before CFB, and not counting ticket sales from an arguably improved bball schedule and an undeniably improved football schedule. Combined, I can see that being near a $15 million increase.

Not sure how you figure the basketball schedule will be improved this year. Last year only four ACC teams made the tournament, and two of them Miami and NC State, look like they'll be down this year and will struggle to make it back to the tournament. UNC and Duke are obviously great teams to have, but there are a lot of ugly ducklings at the bottom of the league. I doubt you'll have more good games at home this year than you did last season.

I said arguably better. The schools up top are better and, moving forward, I expect us to keep schedules that are comparable to our BIG EAST schedules. I would be amazed if Nova, UCONN, and Georgetown weren't regular OOC games, and we will have BC, Pitt, and ND in conference, as well as Duke, UL, UNC, and the other 1-2 random ACC teams that happen to be good that year (FSU, GT, Miami, MCSU, and WF are all capable of having up years)

(09-03-2013 10:16 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:31 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:28 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 03:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Where are you getting your numbers?

They seem right. I just haven't seen them. The last I saw was $73 ish million, but that was two years ago. I would be amazed if last year was less than $75-80 million, which I assume is where you got your $75 million average for the last two years number, and I would be amazed if SU doesn't get a $10-15 million bump from joining the ACC. However, I haven't seen the numbers actually reported, or formally projected. Do you know something that I don't, or are you just making the same assumptions that I am?

SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

I actually think that it will be more that a $15 million payout. I thought I saw the ACC making somewhere in the neighborhood of $17/18 million/school last year and the BIG EAST payouts were usually around $8 million. That's $10 million even before CFB, and not counting ticket sales from an arguably improved bball schedule and an undeniably improved football schedule. Combined, I can see that being near a $15 million increase.

Not sure how you figure the basketball schedule will be improved this year. Last year only four ACC teams made the tournament, and two of them Miami and NC State, look like they'll be down this year and will struggle to make it back to the tournament. UNC and Duke are obviously great teams to have, but there are a lot of ugly ducklings at the bottom of the league. I doubt you'll have more good games at home this year than you did last season.

I said arguably better. The schools up top are better and, moving forward, I expect us to keep schedules that are comparable to our BIG EAST schedules. I would be amazed if Nova, UCONN, and Georgetown weren't regular OOC games, and we will have BC, Pitt, and ND in conference, as well as Duke, UL, UNC, and the other 1-2 random ACC teams that happen to be good that year (FSU, GT, Miami, MCSU, and WF are all capable of having up years)

You didn't really include BC in that grouping did you?

(09-03-2013 10:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

I think that Georgetown was and is pretty solidly our rival. UCONN was and is an admirable 2nd, with Nova and STJ fighting for #3, depending on who is good.

It's interesting that you say UL. I'm not sure that the cards are in our top 5.

EDIT: I also think that the BIG EAST was MUCH better in March than people give it credit for. Anyway, if there was a collapse, IMO, it was because of different officiating styles. BE bball was a brawl, whereas that kind of rough play doesn't fly in other conferences.

i say we cycled because gtown was good but when they fell into a slump uconn became "the game" for us and when uconn went into a slump then louisville became "the game" for us. it was painfully obvious in the final two seasons of the BE that LV had become our big rivalry game.

like we say gtown fade away we were starting to see uconn fade away as well.

im sure the officiating was a factor, but looking at how brutal those BE tourny games and conf games were i dont think its far fetched to say that we wore our players out. gtown & cuse have combined for a lot of early round exits the past few years and i dont think you can blame that entirely on style of play

i dont think uconn will ever be restored. they really rub a lot of fellow schools the wrong way and i dont think SU wants any association with this program for the time being

as for gtown.....i can see it if they want to keep that DC presence. and syracuse has gone on the record that they want to keep the series, however gtown is on the record that they are against it. however this was before the c7/big east breakup and that could have a big impact and make them reconsider. but odds are its dead in the water until gtown cleans house

(09-03-2013 10:30 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

I think that Georgetown was and is pretty solidly our rival. UCONN was and is an admirable 2nd, with Nova and STJ fighting for #3, depending on who is good.

It's interesting that you say UL. I'm not sure that the cards are in our top 5.

EDIT: I also think that the BIG EAST was MUCH better in March than people give it credit for. Anyway, if there was a collapse, IMO, it was because of different officiating styles. BE bball was a brawl, whereas that kind of rough play doesn't fly in other conferences.

i say we cycled because gtown was good but when they fell into a slump uconn became "the game" for us and when uconn went into a slump then louisville became "the game" for us. it was painfully obvious in the final two seasons of the BE that LV had become our big rivalry game.

like we say gtown fade away we were starting to see uconn fade away as well.

im sure the officiating was a factor, but looking at how brutal those BE tourny games and conf games were i dont think its far fetched to say that we wore our players out. gtown & cuse have combined for a lot of early round exits the past few years and i dont think you can blame that entirely on style of play

I disagree. The record crowds were at the Nova and Georgetown games, and UCONN was always more hated than UL. I don't know for sure, but I would bet a lot that the SU-UCONN crowds were bigger than the SU-UL crowds too.

You make a valid point about brutal conference play and being emotionally and physically drained by tourney time, though.

(09-03-2013 10:20 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:16 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:31 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 07:28 PM)orangefan Wrote:  SU generated $49 million in 2008-09 http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...l_m_1.html

SU generated $73 million in 2011-12. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I extrapolated forward and back to get 45 and 75. The ACC bump will be real. TV money will increase $15 million+/- compared to the Big East, and BCS/CFP-Orange Bowl money will increase $3.5 million+. Even with back loading, this will be $15 million in the first year of the CFP (2014-15).

I actually think that it will be more that a $15 million payout. I thought I saw the ACC making somewhere in the neighborhood of $17/18 million/school last year and the BIG EAST payouts were usually around $8 million. That's $10 million even before CFB, and not counting ticket sales from an arguably improved bball schedule and an undeniably improved football schedule. Combined, I can see that being near a $15 million increase.

Not sure how you figure the basketball schedule will be improved this year. Last year only four ACC teams made the tournament, and two of them Miami and NC State, look like they'll be down this year and will struggle to make it back to the tournament. UNC and Duke are obviously great teams to have, but there are a lot of ugly ducklings at the bottom of the league. I doubt you'll have more good games at home this year than you did last season.

I said arguably better. The schools up top are better and, moving forward, I expect us to keep schedules that are comparable to our BIG EAST schedules. I would be amazed if Nova, UCONN, and Georgetown weren't regular OOC games, and we will have BC, Pitt, and ND in conference, as well as Duke, UL, UNC, and the other 1-2 random ACC teams that happen to be good that year (FSU, GT, Miami, MCSU, and WF are all capable of having up years)

You didn't really include BC in that grouping did you?

Syracuse and BC have a lot of history and close ties. I realize that BC might not have a ton of talent, but it is still a game of interest for SU. I have no idea who you like, so BC might be just another team to you, but it isn't for SU. Sure it's no Georgetown, but BC isn't DePaul either.

(09-03-2013 10:30 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

I think that Georgetown was and is pretty solidly our rival. UCONN was and is an admirable 2nd, with Nova and STJ fighting for #3, depending on who is good.

It's interesting that you say UL. I'm not sure that the cards are in our top 5.

EDIT: I also think that the BIG EAST was MUCH better in March than people give it credit for. Anyway, if there was a collapse, IMO, it was because of different officiating styles. BE bball was a brawl, whereas that kind of rough play doesn't fly in other conferences.

i say we cycled because gtown was good but when they fell into a slump uconn became "the game" for us and when uconn went into a slump then louisville became "the game" for us. it was painfully obvious in the final two seasons of the BE that LV had become our big rivalry game.

like we say gtown fade away we were starting to see uconn fade away as well.

im sure the officiating was a factor, but looking at how brutal those BE tourny games and conf games were i dont think its far fetched to say that we wore our players out. gtown & cuse have combined for a lot of early round exits the past few years and i dont think you can blame that entirely on style of play

UConn was"fading away". They won a national championship just 2 years ago.

(09-03-2013 10:35 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i dont think uconn will ever be restored. they really rub a lot of fellow schools the wrong way and i dont think SU wants any association with this program for the time being

as for gtown.....i can see it if they want to keep that DC presence. and syracuse has gone on the record that they want to keep the series, however gtown is on the record that they are against it. however this was before the c7/big east breakup and that could have a big impact and make them reconsider. but odds are its dead in the water until gtown cleans house

And Syracuse didn't rub anyone the wrong way with their multiple back stabbing efforts to abandon their conference.

(09-03-2013 11:15 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:30 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

I think that Georgetown was and is pretty solidly our rival. UCONN was and is an admirable 2nd, with Nova and STJ fighting for #3, depending on who is good.

It's interesting that you say UL. I'm not sure that the cards are in our top 5.

EDIT: I also think that the BIG EAST was MUCH better in March than people give it credit for. Anyway, if there was a collapse, IMO, it was because of different officiating styles. BE bball was a brawl, whereas that kind of rough play doesn't fly in other conferences.

i say we cycled because gtown was good but when they fell into a slump uconn became "the game" for us and when uconn went into a slump then louisville became "the game" for us. it was painfully obvious in the final two seasons of the BE that LV had become our big rivalry game.

like we say gtown fade away we were starting to see uconn fade away as well.

im sure the officiating was a factor, but looking at how brutal those BE tourny games and conf games were i dont think its far fetched to say that we wore our players out. gtown & cuse have combined for a lot of early round exits the past few years and i dont think you can blame that entirely on style of play

I disagree. The record crowds were at the Nova and Georgetown games, and UCONN was always more hated than UL. I don't know for sure, but I would bet a lot that the SU-UCONN crowds were bigger than the SU-UL crowds too.

You make a valid point about brutal conference play and being emotionally and physically drained by tourney time, though.

nova was because it wa national tv & a #1 ranking

gtown was more for old times sake. towards the last few years it was obvious that the BE scheduling and media attention was focused a lot more around lv/cuse than gt or uconn

it was pretty evident with our final uconn game. espn just didnt really give it a lotta press and talking with my fellow su fans we just didnt care about the GT or uconn games as much. maybe a big part of it is the newer generation thing. but had the big east not fallen apart i think we were already in the early stages of the rivalry shifting to LV/cuse as the go to rivalry.

the big east is smart, they build the schedule around what they think are the best macthups for their schools & their conference, and in the last couple of BE seasons it was starting to become obvious that the LV-cuse matchups were becoming a lot more preferable for the big east than any other matchups.

considering the trend of these two programs as preseason top 10 teams, i think its safe to say the BE would have once again made them the favorable matchup and you can see an actual hate developing between these two schools. SU was the top dog that LV wanted to beat. LV was the team that kept knocking off cuse and cuse wanted revenge. i think for the players this was their most intense game.

im not making this stuff up when i saw just how little media attention the final uconn game got and how much my fellow SU fans cared about it thats when i started thinking this way. i thought it was a rather unfortunate way to end that rivalry. syracuse was always on top and because we never had a program compete with us year in year out we really did cycle through rivals. its a lot like nebraska in FB right now who has a bunch of rivals because everyone wants to beat them, but doesnt really have a true rival

(09-03-2013 11:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:35 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i dont think uconn will ever be restored. they really rub a lot of fellow schools the wrong way and i dont think SU wants any association with this program for the time being

as for gtown.....i can see it if they want to keep that DC presence. and syracuse has gone on the record that they want to keep the series, however gtown is on the record that they are against it. however this was before the c7/big east breakup and that could have a big impact and make them reconsider. but odds are its dead in the water until gtown cleans house

And Syracuse didn't rub anyone the wrong way with their multiple back stabbing efforts to abandon their conference.

sorry but remind me who has a series with ND, pitt, bc, miami, vtech, nova & sju still........

every former BE school has thrown uconn under the bus and wants nothing to do with it. why? i dunno but it seems to be a reoccurring theme with you guys so obviously theres something going on at uconn that makes a lot of schools want to disassociate with them

(09-03-2013 11:36 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 11:15 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:30 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it sucks that we most likely will have fewer home games against lesser opponents, but we will also have a lot more elite teams come to the dome.

the knock on SU (which is a myth) is that we dont play a hard enough ooc which is one thing that wont carry over to the ACC. but the biggest thing that always disappointed me was a lack of a true rivalry both in conference & out of conference with a fellow power program. in the BE we cycled between gtown uconn and LV. and as far as whats best for your program, id rather have one legit true in conference rival who will be your rival even if they are having a down year or a bad stretch. we dont have anything like that. in the acc its duke & unc LV & cuse and for the first time we have that permanent in conference rivalry

i hate that cuse rarely does an ooc against a top 10 program. but now we have IU, sju & nova in the ooc. and with acc status we will have a much easier time getting oocs with schools like uk & ucla

as for the scheduling styles. the ACC style worked wonders for duke/unc and is the trend that a lot of other power programs use and is seen in college football as well. honestly the big east style seems to have done more harm than good for us and is a big reason why so many BE teams have march collapses. 2009 & 2010 are especially painful asi directly blame the BE tourny for our failures in march

it think this new scheduling style will translate to more regular season wins and better tourny success and thats a perfectly good tradeoff.

*and dont forget that pitt louisville & ND are coming to down. the acc added 4 teams who will make the tourny more often than not

I think that Georgetown was and is pretty solidly our rival. UCONN was and is an admirable 2nd, with Nova and STJ fighting for #3, depending on who is good.

It's interesting that you say UL. I'm not sure that the cards are in our top 5.

EDIT: I also think that the BIG EAST was MUCH better in March than people give it credit for. Anyway, if there was a collapse, IMO, it was because of different officiating styles. BE bball was a brawl, whereas that kind of rough play doesn't fly in other conferences.

i say we cycled because gtown was good but when they fell into a slump uconn became "the game" for us and when uconn went into a slump then louisville became "the game" for us. it was painfully obvious in the final two seasons of the BE that LV had become our big rivalry game.

like we say gtown fade away we were starting to see uconn fade away as well.

im sure the officiating was a factor, but looking at how brutal those BE tourny games and conf games were i dont think its far fetched to say that we wore our players out. gtown & cuse have combined for a lot of early round exits the past few years and i dont think you can blame that entirely on style of play

I disagree. The record crowds were at the Nova and Georgetown games, and UCONN was always more hated than UL. I don't know for sure, but I would bet a lot that the SU-UCONN crowds were bigger than the SU-UL crowds too.

You make a valid point about brutal conference play and being emotionally and physically drained by tourney time, though.

nova was because it wa national tv & a #1 ranking

gtown was more for old times sake. towards the last few years it was obvious that the BE scheduling and media attention was focused a lot more around lv/cuse than gt or uconn

it was pretty evident with our final uconn game. espn just didnt really give it a lotta press and talking with my fellow su fans we just didnt care about the GT or uconn games as much. maybe a big part of it is the newer generation thing. but had the big east not fallen apart i think we were already in the early stages of the rivalry shifting to LV/cuse as the go to rivalry.

the big east is smart, they build the schedule around what they think are the best macthups for their schools & their conference, and in the last couple of BE seasons it was starting to become obvious that the LV-cuse matchups were becoming a lot more preferable for the big east than any other matchups.

considering the trend of these two programs as preseason top 10 teams, i think its safe to say the BE would have once again made them the favorable matchup and you can see an actual hate developing between these two schools. SU was the top dog that LV wanted to beat. LV was the team that kept knocking off cuse and cuse wanted revenge. i think for the players this was their most intense game.

im not making this stuff up when i saw just how little media attention the final uconn game got and how much my fellow SU fans cared about it thats when i started thinking this way. i thought it was a rather unfortunate way to end that rivalry. syracuse was always on top and because we never had a program compete with us year in year out we really did cycle through rivals. its a lot like nebraska in FB right now who has a bunch of rivals because everyone wants to beat them, but doesnt really have a true rival

Nova-SU is the 2nd and 3rd biggest game ever, after GU-SU, not *just* #2. You can write one of those games off as circumstance, but writing both off as circumstance is a little much, especially given that VU also recently stormed their court after beating us. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh2N0-JVX1A)

I guess I can't argue coverage as that is subjective, but what you are calling "old time's sale," I would call "deeply ingrained institutional hatred that inspired fans to turn out en-mass 30 years later." Anyway, I don't ever remember this happening with UL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vg6obxKEdg
Or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68nRisW_05Y

However, I can definitively say that SU-UL lacked three important things that SU-UCONN had:
*First, SU-UL lacks geography. SU students and UCONN students are neighbors and friends. In fact, my first roommate was from Glastonbury, CT and grew up a UCONN fan. Naturally, about 6 of his friends drove up for the UCONN game freshman year and his history as a UCONN fan, my connections to the state of CT, and the presence of his friends in full UCONN gear added an entire extra level of intensity to the game for us. I realize that story is very specific, but stories like it aren't rare.
*Second, UCONN and SU are similarly situated academically-speaking. Many UCONN students applied to SU and many SU students applied to UCONN, which gives the game an extra sense of meaning for those students. After all, nobody wants to be the kid who chose the wrong school...
*Third, SU-UCONN share a 30 year history and grew up next to each other. SU had Boeheim, our crabby but loveable ball of orange cheer, and UCONN had Calhoun, the weathered and angry ball of New England hatred (admittedly I might be biased). Seriously though, both schools emerged into prominence by battling in the gauntlet that was the BIG EAST basketball season. Both schools also had larger-than-life head coaches who, by the end of it all, were like seasoned generals who had been hardened by the battle field. Sure UL has Rick who used to be an assistant coach at Syracuse under Boeheim, but UL's history and focus is on teams like Memphis and Cincinnati, not SU. That's who they have historically played, and that's who they rose to prominence playing.
If you don't believe me, look at the SU-UCONN animosity on this board. I know UL is joining the ACC, so there isn't the bitter left behind feeling with them, but go back to before UL was added to the ACC and there still wasn't a resounding anti-SU bias amongst their fans. UCONN fans, however, actually openly and overtly hate us, second only to how much they loath BC.

Anyway, look at it this way:
SU-UCONN
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GKG46Xh48tE/Sb...en+tee.jpg
SU-Nova
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TXTMeZrDibs/S2...hirt+1.jpg
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets...w48601.jpg
SU-Georgetown
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m...22wWWw.jpg
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_ima..._large.jpg
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m...k4mTKQ.jpg
http://www.playlikeyourcouchisonfire.com...dshirt.gif
SU-UL
?????