Hey guys I am new and a refugee from espn. Look forward to posting here. We really need a secondary worth a **** but this a tall order considering the league uk is in though there OOC is pretty promising. Drew Barker was a good sign but is not all that exciting to me. thoughts

(07-08-2013 09:09 PM)WPDAWG08 Wrote:  Hey guys I am new and a refugee from espn. Look forward to posting here. We really need a secondary worth a **** but this a tall order considering the league uk is in though there OOC is pretty promising. Drew Barker was a good sign but is not all that exciting to me. thoughts

If he can get to a bowl in three years, yes. The problem with patience at Kentucky is not with the administration, but with the potential recruits themselves. Stoops has to show improvement in each of the first two years and then make a bowl by at least his third to get the kids in their senior years in high school to buy in. If he does that then yes Kentucky can grow into a credible program.

If Franklin can do it at Vandy then Stoops can do it at Kentucky. But, Franklin has done a masterful job of selling Vanderbilt to the kids. If Stoops can sell Kentucky he can win.

While it's possible, Stoops' success at UK will be predicated IMO upon his success at recruiting in OH, IN, IL and WV. The Wildcats' not only have to overcome their BBall school mentality when recruiting, but also the fact that its difficult for them to entice kids away from other SEC schools in the South.

Of course the current class looks as though he has made some inroads in states north of UK. Continue along that path and fend off Mizzou and a resurgent Vol program, and the Wildcats might finally put together a successful team.

As a fan, the recruiting victories so far this year will give momentum for this season. There are very low expectations for actual wins this coming season, but seeing the offense open up would be a positive sign. If we can get 2 SEC wins this season, I think that would meet and slightly exceed expectations. Joker Phillips really left a mess (these are his first recruits now coming up into playing time).

Basketball has actually be a great selling point for football. Calipari and his staff are great about letting football come into the facilities, attend games, talk to the coaches, interact with the celebs that come around, etc. Drew Barker is getting Tim Couch type love already within the state. I am encouraged.

(07-09-2013 10:20 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  As a fan, the recruiting victories so far this year will give momentum for this season. There are very low expectations for actual wins this coming season, but seeing the offense open up would be a positive sign. If we can get 2 SEC wins this season, I think that would meet and slightly exceed expectations. Joker Phillips really left a mess (these are his first recruits now coming up into playing time).

Basketball has actually be a great selling point for football. Calipari and his staff are great about letting football come into the facilities, attend games, talk to the coaches, interact with the celebs that come around, etc. Drew Barker is getting Tim Couch type love already within the state. I am encouraged.

The BB program and the marquee games will be a great selling point. It's like... hey, if you play for UCLA we can get you court side Laker tix. lolto

(07-09-2013 10:20 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  As a fan, the recruiting victories so far this year will give momentum for this season. There are very low expectations for actual wins this coming season, but seeing the offense open up would be a positive sign. If we can get 2 SEC wins this season, I think that would meet and slightly exceed expectations. Joker Phillips really left a mess (these are his first recruits now coming up into playing time).

Basketball has actually be a great selling point for football. Calipari and his staff are great about letting football come into the facilities, attend games, talk to the coaches, interact with the celebs that come around, etc. Drew Barker is getting Tim Couch type love already within the state. I am encouraged.

While you should be encouraged at my age what I see here is a recreation of the conditions that led Bear to leave Kentucky. You don't grow football in the SEC by showcasing your basketball stars. Stoops is a good coach and quite capable of building the program. But if he does it will have to be football history, football stars, and football prestige that is pushed.

Conversely the rest of the SEC makes the same mistake about basketball. They sell the kids on their football stars to try to build hoops. We are talking oil and water here. Stud basketball recruits aren't inclined to go to football first cultures and vice versa. If you want to build football at Kentucky it needs to be done independently of the Basketball history and success and then treated with equal respect or it is never ever going to happen. No self respecting football jock is going to a campus where he is second fiddle to a basketball player. That is how the kids think. Only fans are enamored of stars regardless of the sport they represent. These kids aren't fans. They are athletes who dream of success and recognition, for themselves, not some other guy.

(07-09-2013 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 10:20 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  As a fan, the recruiting victories so far this year will give momentum for this season. There are very low expectations for actual wins this coming season, but seeing the offense open up would be a positive sign. If we can get 2 SEC wins this season, I think that would meet and slightly exceed expectations. Joker Phillips really left a mess (these are his first recruits now coming up into playing time).

Basketball has actually be a great selling point for football. Calipari and his staff are great about letting football come into the facilities, attend games, talk to the coaches, interact with the celebs that come around, etc. Drew Barker is getting Tim Couch type love already within the state. I am encouraged.

While you should be encouraged at my age what I see here is a recreation of the conditions that led Bear to leave Kentucky. You don't grow football in the SEC by showcasing your basketball stars. Stoops is a good coach and quite capable of building the program. But if he does it will have to be football history, football stars, and football prestige that is pushed.

Conversely the rest of the SEC makes the same mistake about basketball. They sell the kids on their football stars to try to build hoops. We are talking oil and water here. Stud basketball recruits aren't inclined to go to football first cultures and vice versa. If you want to build football at Kentucky it needs to be done independently of the Basketball history and success and then treated with equal respect or it is never ever going to happen. No self respecting football jock is going to a campus where he is second fiddle to a basketball player. That is how the kids think. Only fans are enamored of stars regardless of the sport they represent. These kids aren't fans. They are athletes who dream of success and recognition, for themselves, not some other guy.

I think you are correct on those points, JR. As soon as football can stand on its own two legs, I foresee (or maybe "hope" is a better word) basketball getting out of the picture. Listening to the history of what happened to Bear because of Rupp's prominence on campus really hurts. Hopefully, UK will learn from that history. The school really is going to have to make a major jump in status to support an elite basketball and elite football program, though. The only schools I can think of with recent sustained track records are Florida and Ohio State. Texas had a run earlier this century when Rick Barnes and Mack Brown were still consider elite coaches. Michigan has the brand name in both sports to make it happen again; they are off to a good, fresh start.

So, Kentucky has to get into the same breath as Florida, Ohio State, Texas, and Michigan through sustained success over the next 5-10 years. It is possible, but a lot of commitments are going to be needed to meet and sustain that success. Those four powerhouse schools I listed are atop the revenue mountain along with Alabama. UK is a good $40 million in annual revenue behind that pack. The sweeping renovations of Commonwealth Stadium and the upcoming suites/improvements at Rupp will help significantly. In terms of existing infrastructure and a history of success in both sports, I see Tennessee as UK's main competitor in dual sport success over the long term. I respect what Louisville has accomplished, but there are big question marks about their football as they move into the ACC (where powerhouse programs seem to go and wither). Their recruiting has also tailed off a hair as the newness has worn off and UK has finally stopped falling over themselves. The biggest threat, though, is LSU, Alabama, and Georgia waking up and realizing that they could become dominant in basketball with the right coach. If Calipari had gone to Georgia rather than UK, I have no doubt they would be producing. Why programs of that stature do not spend $5 million on a head coach instead of $1.5 for mediocrity is baffling. They would more than make up for the difference in exposure and revenue.

(07-09-2013 12:54 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 12:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 10:20 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  As a fan, the recruiting victories so far this year will give momentum for this season. There are very low expectations for actual wins this coming season, but seeing the offense open up would be a positive sign. If we can get 2 SEC wins this season, I think that would meet and slightly exceed expectations. Joker Phillips really left a mess (these are his first recruits now coming up into playing time).

Basketball has actually be a great selling point for football. Calipari and his staff are great about letting football come into the facilities, attend games, talk to the coaches, interact with the celebs that come around, etc. Drew Barker is getting Tim Couch type love already within the state. I am encouraged.

While you should be encouraged at my age what I see here is a recreation of the conditions that led Bear to leave Kentucky. You don't grow football in the SEC by showcasing your basketball stars. Stoops is a good coach and quite capable of building the program. But if he does it will have to be football history, football stars, and football prestige that is pushed.

Conversely the rest of the SEC makes the same mistake about basketball. They sell the kids on their football stars to try to build hoops. We are talking oil and water here. Stud basketball recruits aren't inclined to go to football first cultures and vice versa. If you want to build football at Kentucky it needs to be done independently of the Basketball history and success and then treated with equal respect or it is never ever going to happen. No self respecting football jock is going to a campus where he is second fiddle to a basketball player. That is how the kids think. Only fans are enamored of stars regardless of the sport they represent. These kids aren't fans. They are athletes who dream of success and recognition, for themselves, not some other guy.

I think you are correct on those points, JR. As soon as football can stand on its own two legs, I foresee (or maybe "hope" is a better word) basketball getting out of the picture. Listening to the history of what happened to Bear because of Rupp's prominence on campus really hurts. Hopefully, UK will learn from that history. The school really is going to have to make a major jump in status to support an elite basketball and elite football program, though. The only schools I can think of with recent sustained track records are Florida and Ohio State. Texas had a run earlier this century when Rick Barnes and Mack Brown were still consider elite coaches. Michigan has the brand name in both sports to make it happen again; they are off to a good, fresh start.

So, Kentucky has to get into the same breath as Florida, Ohio State, Texas, and Michigan through sustained success over the next 5-10 years. It is possible, but a lot of commitments are going to be needed to meet and sustain that success. Those four powerhouse schools I listed are atop the revenue mountain along with Alabama. UK is a good $40 million in annual revenue behind that pack. The sweeping renovations of Commonwealth Stadium and the upcoming suites/improvements at Rupp will help significantly. In terms of existing infrastructure and a history of success in both sports, I see Tennessee as UK's main competitor in dual sport success over the long term. I respect what Louisville has accomplished, but there are big question marks about their football as they move into the ACC (where powerhouse programs seem to go and wither). Their recruiting has also tailed off a hair as the newness has worn off and UK has finally stopped falling over themselves. The biggest threat, though, is LSU, Alabama, and Georgia waking up and realizing that they could become dominant in basketball with the right coach. If Calipari had gone to Georgia rather than UK, I have no doubt they would be producing. Why programs of that stature do not spend $5 million on a head coach instead of $1.5 for mediocrity is baffling. They would more than make up for the difference in exposure and revenue.

Kentucky may have a better chance at being a two sport school than Auburn or Alabama. L.S.U. has a basketball heritage (a pretty good one) to build upon. They just need to spend the money to get another top notch coach. I doubt Georgia has much more of a chance to do it than Auburn or Alabama. It's not that any of those schools couldn't have a top notch program, but rather that the only sport on any of those campuses that gets a buzz at all is football. Football hogs the headlines 365 days out of the year. Basketball prospects feel like second class jocks just walking around those campuses and walking through the athletic departments of those schools.

I agree that Tennessee could overcome the issue and I believe South Carolina could as well. Throw in L.S.U. and Ole Miss and Mississippi State and you have enough of our programs to bring up the standing of the conferences as a whole. I look for Arkansas resurgence with the presence of Missouri to stimulate them. A&M helps there too. I don't think basketball is dead in the SEC, I just believe its voice can not be heard over the applause for crystal footballs. And I also believe that its lack of national coverage is due to the networks overcompensating the have not conferences in football and paying homage to the football conferences whose teams are not keeping pace. So the Big East, Big 10 and ACC are given January through March to get their network hugs and kisses and the SEC is just supposed to be happy for being king of the gridiron.

Hard to say.

5-7 wins a year? Absolutely.

8-10 a year? I wouldn't bet on it.

He has a great class now, but how will he be able to recruit next season, especially if this season is underwhelming.

(07-09-2013 08:51 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to say.

5-7 wins a year? Absolutely.

8-10 a year? I wouldn't bet on it.

He has a great class now, but how will he be able to recruit next season, especially if this season is underwhelming.

Yeah, we'll just have to see how it goes. 10 years ago, there was not a snowball's chance that anyone would say that South Carolina would compete for the SEC East year in, year out. It took the right coach and a commitment to gathering talent, especially keeping the top guys in state.

(07-08-2013 09:09 PM)WPDAWG08 Wrote:  Hey guys I am new and a refugee from espn. Look forward to posting here. We really need a secondary worth a **** but this a tall order considering the league uk is in though there OOC is pretty promising. Drew Barker was a good sign but is not all that exciting to me. thoughts

I think so. Kentucky is actually positioned geographically (not the state itself, but sandwiched between south and midwest) to recruit very well. For some reason a lot of prior coaches have never heavily recruited Ohio though. Perhaps the cache of the SEC is now so much stronger than it was previously, that it is easier pickings. A few winning years and that program could be off to the races...

(07-10-2013 03:15 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(07-08-2013 09:09 PM)WPDAWG08 Wrote:  Hey guys I am new and a refugee from espn. Look forward to posting here. We really need a secondary worth a **** but this a tall order considering the league uk is in though there OOC is pretty promising. Drew Barker was a good sign but is not all that exciting to me. thoughts

I think so. Kentucky is actually positioned geographically (not the state itself, but sandwiched between south and midwest) to recruit very well. For some reason a lot of prior coaches have never heavily recruited Ohio though. Perhaps the cache of the SEC is now so much stronger than it was previously, that it is easier pickings. A few winning years and that program could be off to the races...

Plus Stoops is a native of Ohio.

(07-10-2013 09:49 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 08:51 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to say.

5-7 wins a year? Absolutely.

8-10 a year? I wouldn't bet on it.

He has a great class now, but how will he be able to recruit next season, especially if this season is underwhelming.

Yeah, we'll just have to see how it goes. 10 years ago, there was not a snowball's chance that anyone would say that South Carolina would compete for the SEC East year in, year out. It took the right coach and a commitment to gathering talent, especially keeping the top guys in state.

Yep. Stability is key.

We didn't do anything to write home about until about year 5 or 6. UK will need to commit to Stoops long term.

Got to lock down instate talent, which will be tough with Louisville doing as well as they are.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes. UK has some great recruiting momentum right now.

(07-10-2013 03:30 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 09:49 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 08:51 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to say.

5-7 wins a year? Absolutely.

8-10 a year? I wouldn't bet on it.

He has a great class now, but how will he be able to recruit next season, especially if this season is underwhelming.

Yeah, we'll just have to see how it goes. 10 years ago, there was not a snowball's chance that anyone would say that South Carolina would compete for the SEC East year in, year out. It took the right coach and a commitment to gathering talent, especially keeping the top guys in state.

Yep. Stability is key.

We didn't do anything to write home about until about year 5 or 6. UK will need to commit to Stoops long term.

Got to lock down instate talent, which will be tough with Louisville doing as well as they are.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes. UK has some great recruiting momentum right now.

Good points Gamecock, and I might add that Louisville wouldn't have made such giant inroads if their had been competency at the helm of UK.

(07-09-2013 08:51 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to say.

5-7 wins a year? Absolutely.

8-10 a year? I wouldn't bet on it.

He has a great class now, but how will he be able to recruit next season, especially if this season is underwhelming.

It killed FSU to lose him. He did wonders helping turning around the Seminoles.

They have a very good chance of being in the upper part of the part of the SEC East in a few years if recruiting keeps going the way it is. Problem is every SEC school recruits great players. So who knows. Louisville will keep getting good players as always. There is room for both to do good.

Glad to see this board active again and welcome new members.

Spurrier is quiet this year. Watch out! I wouldn't be surprised to see South Carolina play Louisville for all the marbles at the end of this season. If the Cocks stay healthy this might be their year.

(07-13-2013 04:45 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  They have a very good chance of being in the upper part of the part of the SEC East in a few years if recruiting keeps going the way it is. Problem is every SEC school recruits great players. So who knows. Louisville will keep getting good players as always. There is room for both to do good.

There a lot of kids to go around. They all can't start for Alabama and Ohio State. Many kids sign with a school they have a reasonable chance of actually getting on the field.

(07-10-2013 03:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 03:15 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(07-08-2013 09:09 PM)WPDAWG08 Wrote:  Hey guys I am new and a refugee from espn. Look forward to posting here. We really need a secondary worth a **** but this a tall order considering the league uk is in though there OOC is pretty promising. Drew Barker was a good sign but is not all that exciting to me. thoughts

I think so. Kentucky is actually positioned geographically (not the state itself, but sandwiched between south and midwest) to recruit very well. For some reason a lot of prior coaches have never heavily recruited Ohio though. Perhaps the cache of the SEC is now so much stronger than it was previously, that it is easier pickings. A few winning years and that program could be off to the races...

Plus Stoops is a native of Ohio.

I have been going on about Tennessee lately and Kentucky is in similar position. They do have one edge and that is their closer proximity to other conference's traditional recruiting grounds. With ESPN pushing the SEC so much and with the new SEC Network being available, Kentucky is going to get presented on tv a lot more especially with a regionally tuned conference network. Those areas bordering Kentucky are not that far away so the drive is doable and they will have a chance to see the rest of the games during regional coverage on the SECN.

The SECN could possibly be huge for Kentucky football.