We'll be ranked if we beat Akron.

(06-18-2013 09:22 AM)Dukie95 Wrote:  Not sure what has transpired that would cause people to honestly put CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, Chattanooga above us...but yeah, motivation.

CCU, Bethune-Cookman, and Wagner were all playoff teams last year - and they will be favored to win their conferences again this year (especially with Albany leaving Wagner's NEC and Stony leaving CCU's Big South). Chatty will also be one of the top (eligible) SoCon teams with Appy and GSU gone. Tennessee State was at one point last year 7-0, before going 1-3 in their last 4 games (against stronger competition).

Like others have said, these polls mean nothing. Even the TSN poll - which gets updated throughout the season - is mostly a joke. There are a ton of examples of the polls just being out of touch with reality. As for JMU, I have no idea how we'll play with Birdsong and a "new" offensive system. I certainly would have us ranked low until I know that answer. We'll settle this on the field.

I had to guess, I think that Lindy's merely assumes that ODU is FBS this coming season. Not sure why JMU isn't on the list.

(06-18-2013 04:26 PM)DBJMU2006 Wrote:  We'll be ranked if we beat Akron.

Yeah, probably. And, to tell you the truth, we better beat Akron.

(06-18-2013 05:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I had to guess, I think that Lindy's merely assumes that ODU is FBS this coming season. Not sure why JMU isn't on the list.

Gotta admit, that Scooby Doo made me laugh. Football season can't get here soon enough.

Just win

Preseason polls are like trying to get the homerun before you even hit the ball.

(06-18-2013 04:11 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 03:19 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 01:36 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  Even at the FBS level, you could look back at any preseason poll in any year and shake your head. It's no indication to me on how good JMU will be. As I said before, the fact is we have a big unknown at QB. That's probably the reason we'd be left out of polls. I hope Birdsong is a beast but I don't think anyone has really seen enough to have a strong opinion.

DoubleD, I totally hear you... yet it clearly states we have much work to do to get respect as a power. Its not about how good or bad we are or will be, but about how we are viewed. And yes, I believe this is important, if for no other reason, recruits want to know they are going to a good team. They want to be proud when they tell their friends they have an offer from JMU and feel that its a better deal than other offers in hand from (as 95 stated) CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, and Chattanooga. Is that who you want our program associated with, or is it NDSU, Villanova, SHSU, Montana St., and Montana (purposefully left out those moving to FBS)?

Yeah, I hear you on that. Sometimes I look at the guys we get and the other schools that offered and I cringe, mostly with basketball actually. However, this is the class that was rated #1 in the nation (after a year of redshirting) getting its first chance to play. So, somebody must be throwing darts at a wall. I hear everything you're saying, but what I've found in FCS is that you can shoot from unranked to the top 5 with 2 or 3 wins. I really just think that there are a lot of unknowns this year. Our QB hasn't played much. We have a new OC/system. We lost some guys in the secondary. It's not that we're not going to be good, it's just the unknowns.

I really think we have some of the best players in the country at LB. We have Robertson and Till. We have Mosley and Stanton. We have Marlowe. I believe our OL will be better than last year even w/o Watford. We have Scott. I assume we'll have Brown back at WR and we have a lot of WRs who are good after the catch (Smith, Harvey, Hunter, and Ravenal (sp?) might play as a freshman). I think we're going to have a pretty good team. It's hard to make a living being an FCS football analyst. As far as perception, we just need to put wins on the board and that will take care of itself. I mean, I don't think we had a great 2011 team but they gave NDSU (the eventual NC winner) the best game they got and that was on the road. It was the only really competitive playoff game they had. We were up 21-10 on ODU last year and blew that game in the second half. We're not far off.

With talk like this there is no way on earth you'll not be in those stands...

(06-18-2013 07:18 PM)hburg Wrote:  Preseason polls are like trying to get the homerun before you even hit the ball.

Kinda like UNCC getting the C-USA invite before playing a down of football??

(06-18-2013 07:49 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 07:18 PM)hburg Wrote:  Preseason polls are like trying to get the homerun before you even hit the ball.

Kinda like UNCC getting the C-USA invite before playing a down of football??

Living 3 miles from their campus and I have a few UNCC alumni friends, you might say I was/am fairly close to their whole process of starting football. I can tell you there was nothing I would consider tight lipped about their aspirations. Their president promotes football at every opportunity. Probably very much like Uncle Ron did, back in the day.

I would not be surprised to see them in the AAC within 10 years. Of course, a new president and all bets are off.

There was never a consideration of playing in the Panther's stadium which is only 15 minutes away. It was going to be on campus period. Looking from the outside/in they have simply done it the right way. The students/parents are taking a big hit from a cost perspective, but its very well received by the city.

Once the newness wears off, I don't see them having quite the success of putting butts in the seats as ODU has had due to having the Panthers right here, but if they are winners, who knows.

(06-18-2013 06:43 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 05:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I had to guess, I think that Lindy's merely assumes that ODU is FBS this coming season. Not sure why JMU isn't on the list.

Gotta admit, that Scooby Doo made me laugh.

+1

(06-18-2013 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

Anyone who would include MEAC team, from a conference that hasn't won a playoff game since the 90s, loses all credibility.

(06-18-2013 01:14 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 11:36 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

They don't set seeds based on soley on polls.

And they shouldn't. It's a lazy way to award the seeds. We all know each year there are teams that don't pass the "eye test". But way too many times to be coincidence, the top 4 seeds have come from the top 4 in the polls. Not always in the exact order but from the group nonetheless.

Going back to a poignant year in JMU football history- 2006. We end the regular season ranked 6th. NDSU was above us at 4 but ineligible due to transition. So what happens? All four eligible teams above us got seeds and we were shipped off to Youngstown.

Number of seeds ( 1-4 ) awarded out of the Top 4 in the final regular season poll each year:

2006: 4 out of 4
2007: 4 out of 4
2008: 3 out of 4
2009: 4 out of 4
2010: 2 out of 4
2011: 3 out of 4
2012: 4 out of 4

As far as 2006, from the top 4 conferences there were three 10-1 teams, ASU, Montana, and UMass, that were the top 3 seeds. That was going to happen polls or no polls.

As far as YSU and JMU for the 4th seed:
YSU played a I-A and a Div II. Was 8-1 vs I-AA.
JMU didn’t play a I-A and played a Div II. Was 8-2 vs I-AA. JMU lost in their next to last game to a Villanova team that finished 6-5/4-4.
JMU. Even if there weren’t polls YSU still would have gotten the #4 seed. Where JMU got screwed was their *** **** geography rule, a whole another story....

The week before playoff selections in 06' Bruce Dowd did an interview with UMass's AD at the time, McCutcheon, who was chairman of the selection committee, who said (is no longer a good link to the article) something like they didn't choose the field based on polls. Montana's AD in 2011, who was chairman of the selection committee, was quoted as saying polls were one of a number of factors they looked at.

The figures you show from the last 3 seasons of the 12 teams that were ranked top 4 in the polls, 9 got top 4 seeds and 3 didn't. If they didn't look at the polls at all that probably wouldn't change.

This season I believe 8 of 24 will get byes, which likely means 8 seeded teams.

(06-18-2013 04:42 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 09:22 AM)Dukie95 Wrote:  Not sure what has transpired that would cause people to honestly put CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, Chattanooga above us...but yeah, motivation.

CCU, Bethune-Cookman, and Wagner were all playoff teams last year - and they will be favored to win their conferences again this year (especially with Albany leaving Wagner's NEC and Stony leaving CCU's Big South). Chatty will also be one of the top (eligible) SoCon teams with Appy and GSU gone. Tennessee State was at one point last year 7-0, before going 1-3 in their last 4 games (against stronger competition).

Like others have said, these polls mean nothing. Even the TSN poll - which gets updated throughout the season - is mostly a joke. There are a ton of examples of the polls just being out of touch with reality. As for JMU, I have no idea how we'll play with Birdsong and a "new" offensive system. I certainly would have us ranked low until I know that answer. We'll settle this on the field.

The MEAC hasn't won a playoff game since 1999. BCU is 0-4 in the playoffs during that span. Being favored to win a cupcake conference who representative has lost 15 straight playoff games (a couple of seasons had 2 teams in) doesn't mean anything.

And Tenn State was a fraud. They were 7-0 vs a cupcake schedule, then went 1-3 vs teams from another conference that hasn't won a playoff game since..I just looked it up....1996. Again, being favored to win a conference that has lost 18 straight playoff games (a couple of seasons had 2 teams in) doesn't mean anything...

Again, this guy from Lindy's loses any credibility by including those teams.

Lindys sucks! #

(06-18-2013 08:57 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 06:43 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 05:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I had to guess, I think that Lindy's merely assumes that ODU is FBS this coming season. Not sure why JMU isn't on the list.

Gotta admit, that Scooby Doo made me laugh.

+1

Glad to help. Maybe you guys can borrow it after June...

(06-19-2013 08:19 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 08:57 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 06:43 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 05:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I had to guess, I think that Lindy's merely assumes that ODU is FBS this coming season. Not sure why JMU isn't on the list.

Gotta admit, that Scooby Doo made me laugh.

+1

Glad to help. Maybe you guys can borrow it after June...

Doubt it... Bourne likes to be the smartest rider on the short bus.

(06-19-2013 04:00 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 04:42 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 09:22 AM)Dukie95 Wrote:  Not sure what has transpired that would cause people to honestly put CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, Chattanooga above us...but yeah, motivation.

CCU, Bethune-Cookman, and Wagner were all playoff teams last year - and they will be favored to win their conferences again this year (especially with Albany leaving Wagner's NEC and Stony leaving CCU's Big South). Chatty will also be one of the top (eligible) SoCon teams with Appy and GSU gone. Tennessee State was at one point last year 7-0, before going 1-3 in their last 4 games (against stronger competition).

Like others have said, these polls mean nothing. Even the TSN poll - which gets updated throughout the season - is mostly a joke. There are a ton of examples of the polls just being out of touch with reality. As for JMU, I have no idea how we'll play with Birdsong and a "new" offensive system. I certainly would have us ranked low until I know that answer. We'll settle this on the field.

The MEAC hasn't won a playoff game since 1999. BCU is 0-4 in the playoffs during that span. Being favored to win a cupcake conference who representative has lost 15 straight playoff games (a couple of seasons had 2 teams in) doesn't mean anything.

And Tenn State was a fraud. They were 7-0 vs a cupcake schedule, then went 1-3 vs teams from another conference that hasn't won a playoff game since..I just looked it up....1996. Again, being favored to win a conference that has lost 18 straight playoff games (a couple of seasons had 2 teams in) doesn't mean anything...

Again, this guy from Lindy's loses any credibility by including those teams.

And I forgot to mention CCU. They finished 8-5, 3-5 vs OOC. Of the 3 quality teams they played:
ASU lost 55-14
SBU lost 27-21
ODU lost 63-35.
Yet they are in peoples top 25 because of what?

(06-19-2013 10:00 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-19-2013 04:00 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 04:42 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 09:22 AM)Dukie95 Wrote:  Not sure what has transpired that would cause people to honestly put CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, Chattanooga above us...but yeah, motivation.

CCU, Bethune-Cookman, and Wagner were all playoff teams last year - and they will be favored to win their conferences again this year (especially with Albany leaving Wagner's NEC and Stony leaving CCU's Big South). Chatty will also be one of the top (eligible) SoCon teams with Appy and GSU gone. Tennessee State was at one point last year 7-0, before going 1-3 in their last 4 games (against stronger competition).

Like others have said, these polls mean nothing. Even the TSN poll - which gets updated throughout the season - is mostly a joke. There are a ton of examples of the polls just being out of touch with reality. As for JMU, I have no idea how we'll play with Birdsong and a "new" offensive system. I certainly would have us ranked low until I know that answer. We'll settle this on the field.

The MEAC hasn't won a playoff game since 1999. BCU is 0-4 in the playoffs during that span. Being favored to win a cupcake conference who representative has lost 15 straight playoff games (a couple of seasons had 2 teams in) doesn't mean anything.

And Tenn State was a fraud. They were 7-0 vs a cupcake schedule, then went 1-3 vs teams from another conference that hasn't won a playoff game since..I just looked it up....1996. Again, being favored to win a conference that has lost 18 straight playoff games (a couple of seasons had 2 teams in) doesn't mean anything...

Again, this guy from Lindy's loses any credibility by including those teams.

And I forgot to mention CCU. They finished 8-5, 3-5 vs OOC. Of the 3 quality teams they played:
ASU lost 55-14
SBU lost 27-21
ODU lost 63-35.
Yet they are in peoples top 25 because of what?

And we won nothing last year. (What has been our recent record against teams with winning records again? I remember someone posting it on the Zone, but I know it was embarrassing.) And now that starting QB has been run out.

I agree with you that some/most of those teams are actually weak. (I even started criticizing Tenn State last year in my playoff articles when they were still 7-0.)

Again, it's a preseason poll. I bet the way most people figure these out is by starting with the playoff teams from last year and who they think will make it this year. Then they see if there are any big hurdles coming up this year for those teams. Is it kind of lazy? Yup. But until they start playing, it's all guesswork.

But if it bothers you so much, come up with your own Top 25. Seriously, it will hold about as much weight as the Lindy one.

"And we won nothing last year. (What has been our recent record against teams with winning records again? I remember someone posting it on the Zone, but I know it was embarrassing.) And now that starting QB has been run out."

Since 2008, we have a 16-18 (47%) record against opponents with a winning record compared to a 23-3 (88%) record against opponents with a losing record.

Take out the 2008 season, we have a 8-17 (32%) record versus opponents with a winning record compared to a 19-2 (90%) record against opponents with a losing record.