ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

(05-12-2013 02:11 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

Make that expand the stadium to 80k and fill it three quarters of the time. When Slive added Missouri we unofficially stated expectations that 80k would be a mark that as a conference we would shoot for. Ole Miss and Mississippi State will have to shoot for it as well. Vandy may be the only one to kind of get a pass on this goal.

(05-12-2013 09:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 02:11 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

Make that expand the stadium to 80k and fill it three quarters of the time. When Slive added Missouri we unofficially stated expectations that 80k would be a mark that as a conference we would shoot for. Ole Miss and Mississippi State will have to shoot for it as well. Vandy may be the only one to kind of get a pass on this goal.

You're probably right. ECU I think actually has plans to go to 60k in the next few years, and I have no doubt they could fill that up. But 80k is probably closer to the benchmark.

60K will make it the largest audience on game day anywhere in North Carolina.

(05-12-2013 08:52 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  60K will make it the largest audience on game day anywhere in North Carolina.

You are dead on there buddy. It's ridiculous that N.C. State and U.N.C. can't average 60,000. Throw in UVa and it gets more absurd. Virginia Tech only hits around 66,000. We are talking about states that exceed the population of many in the SEC and quite a few in the Big 10 yet they can't hold a candle to us and they wondered why they weren't earning what we were even though they held the largest television footprint.

If the ACC didn't have Clemson and Florida State they would not average 50,000 as a conference (Notre Dame excluded of course).

ECU already has one of the best game day experiences in the nation. I've brought my friends that graduated from Alabama, Texas and FSU & all of them have walked away thoroughly impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFAZ5WJjTJ0

If ECU was in the SEC then selling 80,000 tickets would be a piece of cake.

(05-12-2013 09:52 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  ECU already has one of the best game day experiences in the nation. I've brought my friends that graduated from Alabama, Texas and FSU & all of them have walked away thoroughly impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFAZ5WJjTJ0

If ECU was in the SEC then selling 80,000 tickets would be a piece of cake.

There is one scenario in which I think the Pirates could have a realistic chance, but much has to happen for this to come about.

1. The Big 12 expands and Texas expresses total commitment to keeping the Big 12 viable and to show that intent they agree to morph the LHN into a Big 12 network that will profit all of the schools of the conference.

2. The ACC has already taken their necessary step with their GOR.

3. The Big 10, SEC, and ACC grow very weary of scheduling 14. Truly 16 is much easier and lends itself to more money by extending the conference championship from one game to two and from two teams to four.

At this point the SEC will be looking for the best possible additions to get to 16. Their reasonable candidates would be South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, and possibly Southern Methodist. This would be the breakdown on those options:

1. South Florida averages over 50 k at their home games and have made great strides in both their academic ratings and in their research spending. The Bulls offer access to a part of the state of Florida that has heretofore been relatively unexploited by most SEC teams. The mid-Gulf Coast will become in a decade or so what Miami once was in the 60's and 70's. As the culture of Miami shifts Central Florida and South Florida will both move way up. While they don't add a market there is much to the upside of this program.

2. East Carolina is a football first school in a state that would add market share to the SEC. While they don't carry the state they average enough in attendance to merit, as you have pointed out, the good chance to draw 80 k. With SEC money they could both enhance their academics and their facilities and could easily overtake N.C. State as a destination of choice for recruits in state. The Pirates have historically produced good athletic programs and could easily compete at the mid-level in sports in the SEC in a relatively short period of adjustment. (Plus Pat Dye came to Auburn from East Carolina).

3. Cincinnati would bring both competitive basketball and football to the SEC and deliver an interesting new market. While from Ohio they are at least as Southern in culture as Louisville. With SEC money the Bearcats would be elevated across the board in athletics in short order and could surpass Ohio as the #2 program in their state. While the idea may be a stretch for many SEC folks in a college football world where ACC and Big 12 targets are off the board Cincinnati would likely be the best first choice.

4. Southern Methodist delivers Houston. They have a 1.1 billion dollar athletic endowment and membership in the SEC would certainly help them to recruit well. The main drawbacks here are in their average attendance which is below 40,000 and in their overall competitiveness in all sports.

Of the remaining choices Tulane left the SEC and I doubt even with much better numbers that they would be considered and three teams from Tennessee is too many so Memphis would not really get a look either. Southern Miss would be deserving but two Mississippi teams would preclude that move and La Tech doesn't have the facilities or crowds. As far as Central Florida is concerned they are more commuter based than USF and that would not work in the Knights favor although they are a promising team. And, while Old Dominion is on the upswing it will be a couple of decades before they could get a serious look. And Tulsa while good is way too small in a state that's too small to consider a private school that small.

If I had to rate the prospects they would be 1. Cincinnati, 2. East Carolina by a hair, 3. South Florida and 4. S.M.U.

But understand that this would only apply in a world where the Big 12 has expanded and bolstered the revenue sharing of their conference. If they don't expand and don't address the economic disparity then I believe future SEC growth will come from there.

(05-12-2013 09:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 02:11 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

Make that expand the stadium to 80k and fill it three quarters of the time. When Slive added Missouri we unofficially stated expectations that 80k would be a mark that as a conference we would shoot for. Ole Miss and Mississippi State will have to shoot for it as well. Vandy may be the only one to kind of get a pass on this goal.

It's going to be tough for Ole Miss to get to 80,000 capacity any time soon. The 2002 upgrade brought capacity to 60K and the current one will bring it to around 70K. Rebel fans have always liked the intimacy of the setting but I don't think the addition detract from that. They sell over 50,000 season tickets each year, so I don't think reaching a norm of 70,000, but 80K may be a bit tough to get to any time soon.

Mississippi State is also undergoing a stadium expansion, but it is just taking capacity from around 55,000 to around 62,000. They've had sellouts for the last three years, so they can probably stand a little more expansion.

(05-12-2013 10:51 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 09:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 02:11 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

Make that expand the stadium to 80k and fill it three quarters of the time. When Slive added Missouri we unofficially stated expectations that 80k would be a mark that as a conference we would shoot for. Ole Miss and Mississippi State will have to shoot for it as well. Vandy may be the only one to kind of get a pass on this goal.

It's going to be tough for Ole Miss to get to 80,000 capacity any time soon. The 2002 upgrade brought capacity to 60K and the current one will bring it to around 70K. Rebel fans have always liked the intimacy of the setting but I don't think the addition detract from that. They sell over 50,000 season tickets each year, so I don't think reaching a norm of 70,000, but 80K may be a bit tough to get to any time soon.

Mississippi State is also undergoing a stadium expansion, but it is just taking capacity from around 55,000 to around 62,000. They've had sellouts for the last three years, so they can probably stand a little more expansion.

It's a goal, not a mandate, but I'm afraid the economy and HD TV is going to take a toll on any rapid acquisition of that goal. You mentioned sporting goods one time you didn't happen to work with Farris Brothers did you?

(05-12-2013 10:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 10:51 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 09:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 02:11 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

Make that expand the stadium to 80k and fill it three quarters of the time. When Slive added Missouri we unofficially stated expectations that 80k would be a mark that as a conference we would shoot for. Ole Miss and Mississippi State will have to shoot for it as well. Vandy may be the only one to kind of get a pass on this goal.

It's going to be tough for Ole Miss to get to 80,000 capacity any time soon. The 2002 upgrade brought capacity to 60K and the current one will bring it to around 70K. Rebel fans have always liked the intimacy of the setting but I don't think the addition detract from that. They sell over 50,000 season tickets each year, so I don't think reaching a norm of 70,000, but 80K may be a bit tough to get to any time soon.

Mississippi State is also undergoing a stadium expansion, but it is just taking capacity from around 55,000 to around 62,000. They've had sellouts for the last three years, so they can probably stand a little more expansion.

It's a goal, not a mandate, but I'm afraid the economy and HD TV is going to take a toll on any rapid acquisition of that goal. You mentioned sporting goods one time you didn't happen to work with Farris Brothers did you?

No, sorry to say I am not familiar with them.

(05-12-2013 11:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 10:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 10:51 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 09:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 02:11 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  ECU needs a little help:

Expand the stadium to 60k
Go on a Boise-like run over the next ten years
Hope that VT or WVU are already on board and admitted to the conference.

Make that expand the stadium to 80k and fill it three quarters of the time. When Slive added Missouri we unofficially stated expectations that 80k would be a mark that as a conference we would shoot for. Ole Miss and Mississippi State will have to shoot for it as well. Vandy may be the only one to kind of get a pass on this goal.

It's going to be tough for Ole Miss to get to 80,000 capacity any time soon. The 2002 upgrade brought capacity to 60K and the current one will bring it to around 70K. Rebel fans have always liked the intimacy of the setting but I don't think the addition detract from that. They sell over 50,000 season tickets each year, so I don't think reaching a norm of 70,000, but 80K may be a bit tough to get to any time soon.

Mississippi State is also undergoing a stadium expansion, but it is just taking capacity from around 55,000 to around 62,000. They've had sellouts for the last three years, so they can probably stand a little more expansion.

It's a goal, not a mandate, but I'm afraid the economy and HD TV is going to take a toll on any rapid acquisition of that goal. You mentioned sporting goods one time you didn't happen to work with Farris Brothers did you?

No, sorry to say I am not familiar with them.

They are a significant sporting goods wholesaler located in Hattiesburg, I think. Hunting and fishing supplies are their strong suit.

If you are talking about the guys I think you are, they have been world class softball players and I have known them for years. We don't do hunting and fishing, so we wouldn't butt heads in business.

(05-12-2013 10:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 09:52 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  ECU already has one of the best game day experiences in the nation. I've brought my friends that graduated from Alabama, Texas and FSU & all of them have walked away thoroughly impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFAZ5WJjTJ0

If ECU was in the SEC then selling 80,000 tickets would be a piece of cake.

There is one scenario in which I think the Pirates could have a realistic chance, but much has to happen for this to come about.

1. The Big 12 expands and Texas expresses total commitment to keeping the Big 12 viable and to show that intent they agree to morph the LHN into a Big 12 network that will profit all of the schools of the conference.

2. The ACC has already taken their necessary step with their GOR.

3. The Big 10, SEC, and ACC grow very weary of scheduling 14. Truly 16 is much easier and lends itself to more money by extending the conference championship from one game to two and from two teams to four.

At this point the SEC will be looking for the best possible additions to get to 16. Their reasonable candidates would be South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, and possibly Southern Methodist. This would be the breakdown on those options:

1. South Florida averages over 50 k at their home games and have made great strides in both their academic ratings and in their research spending. The Bulls offer access to a part of the state of Florida that has heretofore been relatively unexploited by most SEC teams. The mid-Gulf Coast will become in a decade or so what Miami once was in the 60's and 70's. As the culture of Miami shifts Central Florida and South Florida will both move way up. While they don't add a market there is much to the upside of this program.

2. East Carolina is a football first school in a state that would add market share to the SEC. While they don't carry the state they average enough in attendance to merit, as you have pointed out, the good chance to draw 80 k. With SEC money they could both enhance their academics and their facilities and could easily overtake N.C. State as a destination of choice for recruits in state. The Pirates have historically produced good athletic programs and could easily compete at the mid-level in sports in the SEC in a relatively short period of adjustment. (Plus Pat Dye came to Auburn from East Carolina).

3. Cincinnati would bring both competitive basketball and football to the SEC and deliver an interesting new market. While from Ohio they are at least as Southern in culture as Louisville. With SEC money the Bearcats would be elevated across the board in athletics in short order and could surpass Ohio as the #2 program in their state. While the idea may be a stretch for many SEC folks in a college football world where ACC and Big 12 targets are off the board Cincinnati would likely be the best first choice.

4. Southern Methodist delivers Houston. They have a 1.1 billion dollar athletic endowment and membership in the SEC would certainly help them to recruit well. The main drawbacks here are in their average attendance which is below 40,000 and in their overall competitiveness in all sports.

Of the remaining choices Tulane left the SEC and I doubt even with much better numbers that they would be considered and three teams from Tennessee is too many so Memphis would not really get a look either. Southern Miss would be deserving but two Mississippi teams would preclude that move and La Tech doesn't have the facilities or crowds. As far as Central Florida is concerned they are more commuter based than USF and that would not work in the Knights favor although they are a promising team. And, while Old Dominion is on the upswing it will be a couple of decades before they could get a serious look. And Tulsa while good is way too small in a state that's too small to consider a private school that small.

If I had to rate the prospects they would be 1. Cincinnati, 2. East Carolina by a hair, 3. South Florida and 4. S.M.U.

But understand that this would only apply in a world where the Big 12 has expanded and bolstered the revenue sharing of their conference. If they don't expand and don't address the economic disparity then I believe future SEC growth will come from there.

Outside of SMU and the area they deliver (isn't it DFW vice H-town?) I would agree with your assessment. I just think we've reach the point of stability with 5 conferences. ESPN and FOX have a vested interest in keeping the B12 going. And as long as access to the CFB playoff isn't mitigated by having 10 teams, all league members will be happy. Expansion to 12 is probably all they will do.

As such the SEC will have to look at teams outside the P5 to address the scheduling nightmare that 14 teams presents. And I would flip your 3 and 4 as I think you'd have a hard time convincing UF that they don't already own the Sunshine State.

I just don't see the SEC "cheapening" the brand by adding directional, city or small religious, non-flagship schools. Vandy is the lone private school, and without them being a charter member they would not likely get an invite in todays world. If the Texoma 4 to the Big-12 does not happen, then I see the SEC staying put at 14. If the Big-12 does collapse, I see WVU and 1 more. Kansas State would get the nod before any of the aforementioned schools.

South Florida? No, needs an-on campus stadium to even begin the conversation. Playing every weekend at a pro stadium is just not the southern college football culture. Besides, there are more Gator fans in Tampa than Bulls fans.

Cincinnati? No, not a flagship land grant school as stated above. And "Southern Ohio" is the only thing southern about Cincinnati.

SMU is in Dallas, and LSU/Texas A&M already deliver Houston (and Dallas for that matter) better than any addition could. Unless the Longhorns come over, A&M will remain the lone representative for the state of Texas (like the Gators in Florida and the Bulldogs in Georgia).

ECU would be the most likely candidate (assuming the ACC sticks together), but again only as a partner with WVU following a Big-12 collapse, and assuming K-State was off the table. As someone stated earlier, ECU needs to go on a "Boise State, Utah, TCU-esque run" over the next 10 years to improve brand and get into the discussion.

(05-13-2013 07:36 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 10:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 09:52 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  ECU already has one of the best game day experiences in the nation. I've brought my friends that graduated from Alabama, Texas and FSU & all of them have walked away thoroughly impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFAZ5WJjTJ0

If ECU was in the SEC then selling 80,000 tickets would be a piece of cake.

There is one scenario in which I think the Pirates could have a realistic chance, but much has to happen for this to come about.

1. The Big 12 expands and Texas expresses total commitment to keeping the Big 12 viable and to show that intent they agree to morph the LHN into a Big 12 network that will profit all of the schools of the conference.

2. The ACC has already taken their necessary step with their GOR.

3. The Big 10, SEC, and ACC grow very weary of scheduling 14. Truly 16 is much easier and lends itself to more money by extending the conference championship from one game to two and from two teams to four.

At this point the SEC will be looking for the best possible additions to get to 16. Their reasonable candidates would be South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, and possibly Southern Methodist. This would be the breakdown on those options:

1. South Florida averages over 50 k at their home games and have made great strides in both their academic ratings and in their research spending. The Bulls offer access to a part of the state of Florida that has heretofore been relatively unexploited by most SEC teams. The mid-Gulf Coast will become in a decade or so what Miami once was in the 60's and 70's. As the culture of Miami shifts Central Florida and South Florida will both move way up. While they don't add a market there is much to the upside of this program.

2. East Carolina is a football first school in a state that would add market share to the SEC. While they don't carry the state they average enough in attendance to merit, as you have pointed out, the good chance to draw 80 k. With SEC money they could both enhance their academics and their facilities and could easily overtake N.C. State as a destination of choice for recruits in state. The Pirates have historically produced good athletic programs and could easily compete at the mid-level in sports in the SEC in a relatively short period of adjustment. (Plus Pat Dye came to Auburn from East Carolina).

3. Cincinnati would bring both competitive basketball and football to the SEC and deliver an interesting new market. While from Ohio they are at least as Southern in culture as Louisville. With SEC money the Bearcats would be elevated across the board in athletics in short order and could surpass Ohio as the #2 program in their state. While the idea may be a stretch for many SEC folks in a college football world where ACC and Big 12 targets are off the board Cincinnati would likely be the best first choice.

4. Southern Methodist delivers Houston. They have a 1.1 billion dollar athletic endowment and membership in the SEC would certainly help them to recruit well. The main drawbacks here are in their average attendance which is below 40,000 and in their overall competitiveness in all sports.

Of the remaining choices Tulane left the SEC and I doubt even with much better numbers that they would be considered and three teams from Tennessee is too many so Memphis would not really get a look either. Southern Miss would be deserving but two Mississippi teams would preclude that move and La Tech doesn't have the facilities or crowds. As far as Central Florida is concerned they are more commuter based than USF and that would not work in the Knights favor although they are a promising team. And, while Old Dominion is on the upswing it will be a couple of decades before they could get a serious look. And Tulsa while good is way too small in a state that's too small to consider a private school that small.

If I had to rate the prospects they would be 1. Cincinnati, 2. East Carolina by a hair, 3. South Florida and 4. S.M.U.

But understand that this would only apply in a world where the Big 12 has expanded and bolstered the revenue sharing of their conference. If they don't expand and don't address the economic disparity then I believe future SEC growth will come from there.

Outside of SMU and the area they deliver (isn't it DFW vice H-town?) I would agree with your assessment. I just think we've reach the point of stability with 5 conferences. ESPN and FOX have a vested interest in keeping the B12 going. And as long as access to the CFB playoff isn't mitigated by having 10 teams, all league members will be happy. Expansion to 12 is probably all they will do.

As such the SEC will have to look at teams outside the P5 to address the scheduling nightmare that 14 teams presents. And I would flip your 3 and 4 as I think you'd have a hard time convincing UF that they don't already own the Sunshine State.

Thanks for catching the glitch, but yes DFW, and that is the market we are after. I would tend to agree with you about the order but at some point the SEC needs a second Florida team. Why? With four divisions and every team wanting to recruit the Sunshine state we need a second trip to the state to help cover the scheduling preferences for all of the schools. Not to mention that the Tampa / St. Pete area is also a good family destination with access to almost everything one may enjoy on the Gulf Coast. Add to that the ongoing academic enhancements and the fact that they are significantly in a different part of the State than the Gators and that they draw as well as they do and it has the most upside potential of the 4 I listed. Just curious but which two of those four would you pick and why? The reason I ask is because selecting two of these is a lot tougher than it first appears. The attributes of each is so different, and the one with the most attributes may have the least upside of the 4.

(05-13-2013 11:46 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  I just don't see the SEC "cheapening" the brand by adding directional, city or small religious, non-flagship schools. Vandy is the lone private school, and without them being a charter member they would not likely get an invite in todays world. If the Texoma 4 to the Big-12 does not happen, then I see the SEC staying put at 14. If the Big-12 does collapse, I see WVU and 1 more. Kansas State would get the nod before any of the aforementioned schools.

South Florida? No, needs an-on campus stadium to even begin the conversation. Playing every weekend at a pro stadium is just not the southern college football culture. Besides, there are more Gator fans in Tampa than Bulls fans.

Cincinnati? No, not a flagship land grant school as stated above. And "Southern Ohio" is the only thing southern about Cincinnati.

SMU is in Dallas, and LSU/Texas A&M already deliver Houston (and Dallas for that matter) better than any addition could. Unless the Longhorns come over, A&M will remain the lone representative for the state of Texas (like the Gators in Florida and the Bulldogs in Georgia).

ECU would be the most likely candidate (assuming the ACC sticks together), but again only as a partner with WVU following a Big-12 collapse, and assuming K-State was off the table. As someone stated earlier, ECU needs to go on a "Boise State, Utah, TCU-esque run" over the next 10 years to improve brand and get into the discussion.

I certainly don't disagree with any of your assessment. The speculation was merely what do you do if the Big 12 sticks and expands and we are locked into 5 conferences and sick of scheduling 14. BTW, I know that SMU is in Dallas and was thinking of that market when I typed in Houston so my mistake there.

So if you had to pick two who would you take under those circumstances?

(05-13-2013 11:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 11:46 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  I just don't see the SEC "cheapening" the brand by adding directional, city or small religious, non-flagship schools. Vandy is the lone private school, and without them being a charter member they would not likely get an invite in todays world. If the Texoma 4 to the Big-12 does not happen, then I see the SEC staying put at 14. If the Big-12 does collapse, I see WVU and 1 more. Kansas State would get the nod before any of the aforementioned schools.

South Florida? No, needs an-on campus stadium to even begin the conversation. Playing every weekend at a pro stadium is just not the southern college football culture. Besides, there are more Gator fans in Tampa than Bulls fans.

Cincinnati? No, not a flagship land grant school as stated above. And "Southern Ohio" is the only thing southern about Cincinnati.

SMU is in Dallas, and LSU/Texas A&M already deliver Houston (and Dallas for that matter) better than any addition could. Unless the Longhorns come over, A&M will remain the lone representative for the state of Texas (like the Gators in Florida and the Bulldogs in Georgia).

ECU would be the most likely candidate (assuming the ACC sticks together), but again only as a partner with WVU following a Big-12 collapse, and assuming K-State was off the table. As someone stated earlier, ECU needs to go on a "Boise State, Utah, TCU-esque run" over the next 10 years to improve brand and get into the discussion.

I certainly don't disagree with any of your assessment. The speculation was merely what do you do if the Big 12 sticks and expands and we are locked into 5 conferences and sick of scheduling 14. BTW, I know that SMU is in Dallas and was thinking of that market when I typed in Houston so my mistake there.

So if you had to pick two who would you take under those circumstances?

Honestly stick at 14. Put a gun to my head and I would say ECU and Cinci, but only if they could deliver cable subscription fees for the SEC network. Even that is a stretch as I don't realistically think Ohio or North Carolina would become "SEC states" with those 2 additions.

(05-13-2013 11:46 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  I just don't see the SEC "cheapening" the brand by adding directional, city or small religious, non-flagship schools. Vandy is the lone private school, and without them being a charter member they would not likely get an invite in todays world. If the Texoma 4 to the Big-12 does not happen, then I see the SEC staying put at 14. If the Big-12 does collapse, I see WVU and 1 more. Kansas State would get the nod before any of the aforementioned schools.

South Florida? No, needs an-on campus stadium to even begin the conversation. Playing every weekend at a pro stadium is just not the southern college football culture. Besides, there are more Gator fans in Tampa than Bulls fans.

Cincinnati? No, not a flagship land grant school as stated above. And "Southern Ohio" is the only thing southern about Cincinnati.

SMU is in Dallas, and LSU/Texas A&M already deliver Houston (and Dallas for that matter) better than any addition could. Unless the Longhorns come over, A&M will remain the lone representative for the state of Texas (like the Gators in Florida and the Bulldogs in Georgia).

ECU would be the most likely candidate (assuming the ACC sticks together), but again only as a partner with WVU following a Big-12 collapse, and assuming K-State was off the table. As someone stated earlier, ECU needs to go on a "Boise State, Utah, TCU-esque run" over the next 10 years to improve brand and get into the discussion.

LSUtah, we are of course not talking about ideal candidates, but expansion in extremis due to a lack of options. 14 is just a terrible number and you end up with a frequency of opponents that is less than ideal.

For me, I'd go with ECU and SMU based solely on their potential. Texas is too big of a state for one team to possible command. While A&M would reject Texas, I think they would be more amenable to SMU.

(05-13-2013 12:00 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 11:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 11:46 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  I just don't see the SEC "cheapening" the brand by adding directional, city or small religious, non-flagship schools. Vandy is the lone private school, and without them being a charter member they would not likely get an invite in todays world. If the Texoma 4 to the Big-12 does not happen, then I see the SEC staying put at 14. If the Big-12 does collapse, I see WVU and 1 more. Kansas State would get the nod before any of the aforementioned schools.

South Florida? No, needs an-on campus stadium to even begin the conversation. Playing every weekend at a pro stadium is just not the southern college football culture. Besides, there are more Gator fans in Tampa than Bulls fans.

Cincinnati? No, not a flagship land grant school as stated above. And "Southern Ohio" is the only thing southern about Cincinnati.

SMU is in Dallas, and LSU/Texas A&M already deliver Houston (and Dallas for that matter) better than any addition could. Unless the Longhorns come over, A&M will remain the lone representative for the state of Texas (like the Gators in Florida and the Bulldogs in Georgia).

ECU would be the most likely candidate (assuming the ACC sticks together), but again only as a partner with WVU following a Big-12 collapse, and assuming K-State was off the table. As someone stated earlier, ECU needs to go on a "Boise State, Utah, TCU-esque run" over the next 10 years to improve brand and get into the discussion.

I certainly don't disagree with any of your assessment. The speculation was merely what do you do if the Big 12 sticks and expands and we are locked into 5 conferences and sick of scheduling 14. BTW, I know that SMU is in Dallas and was thinking of that market when I typed in Houston so my mistake there.

So if you had to pick two who would you take under those circumstances?

Honestly stick at 14. Put a gun to my head and I would say ECU and Cinci, but only if they could deliver cable subscription fees for the SEC network. Even that is a stretch as I don't realistically think Ohio or North Carolina would become "SEC states" with those 2 additions.

I really hope we don't go down that path to 16. Until the GOR became the new tool in the obstacle box I would have said we would have taken whomever we wished and let the other conference worry about back-filling.

I still have some profound doubts about the Big 12 for numerous reasons. I will not be on board with the idea that we are stabilizing at 5 conferences until they expand to 12. I'm not sure that we move to 72 upper tier teams, but 64 and two hybrids of which the Horns were one and the Irish the other is more what I think we wind up with if the Big 12 doesn't expand. FOX holds rights to teams that move to the PAC and Big 10 and ESPN holds rights for those who move to the SEC and ACC. And ESPN doesn't lose total rights to anyone moving to the PAC or Big 10, at least for now. With the limited footprint of the Big 12, and with even fewer profitable targets left on the table for them to expand with, I think Texas is weighing options. What they decide will dictate the landscape for the future. I'm not sure they want to be locked into the schedule that the new Big 12 offers.

But, I do think that if Texas decides to make a move that the other 9 schools will have to have P4 landing spots to make it feasible. I kind of lean toward the KState/OSU and WVU answer to the SEC's dilemma. I can see Kansas in the Big 10. I could see Texas as a hybrid in the ACC but where everyone else lands is probably the big sticking point. I don't think if any of this happens it will have any drama associated with it. The conferences will work it out and there will simply be a day of announcements and it will be over. If not you are probably correct and we are looking at 14 for the long term.

Ultimately I think Texas/Tech/Oklahoma/Okie St head west (after the Longhorn network flames out and the GOR expires). The idea of a PAC anchored by USC/Oregon west and Texas/Oklahoma east is just to compelling/valuable a product to ignore. And I agree, there is probably enough landing spots within the "P4" at that point to keep most (if not all) Big 12 orphans in play.