Let's assume that those schools in the top 5 conferences make the cut plus ND and BYU. There are neatly 64 teams in the big 5, but ND is not going to be left out and you need an even number for scheduling. So BYU makes the cut too.

With 66 teams, how do you break down the divisions? 6 11-team, 11 6-team, or other break down? I'm going to go with 6 7-team and 3 8-team divisions.

South East
-----
Clemson
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
Georgia Tech
South Carolina
Miami

Atlantic
-----
Duke
Maryland
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech

North East
-----
Boston College
Louisville
Kentucky
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Virginia

South
-----
Alabama
Auburn
Arkansas
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

South West
-----
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Christian
Texas Tech

Mid West
-----
Indiana
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Purdue

Pacific
-----
California
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
USC
UCLA
Washington
Washington State

Central
-----
Iowa
Iowa State
Minnesota
Missouri
Nebraska
Northwestern
Wisconsin

Mountain
-----
Arizona
Arizona State
BYU
Colorado
Kansas
Kansas State
Utah

Divisions would be for all sports. Play everyone in your division home and away in basketball. 16 or 24 team playoff in football. 66 teams playoff in basketball. Out of Division match-ups to be made prior to the season NFL style.

I went regional, and tried to respect all the major regional rivalries. Kentucky goes from South to North but gets a much tougher basketball division. I definitely wanted PSU in the North East, where they should have always been.

Instead of a breakaway with new leagues...lets just institute new guidelines.

How about your league or as an independant must average 25 or 30k actual turnstile count. Attendance is the easiest and most accurate way I know to determine support. I think we would see MWC and AAC included in it. Once that happens we'll have closer to 85 teams. I think it is healthier to include more. Army, Navy and Air Force will have to decide which way to go. Personally I want to include them.

(05-06-2013 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Instead of a breakaway with new leagues...lets just institute new guidelines.

How about your league or as an independant must average 25 or 30k actual turnstile count. Attendance is the easiest and most accurate way I know to determine support. I think we would see MWC and AAC included in it. Once that happens we'll have closer to 85 teams. I think it is healthier to include more. Army, Navy and Air Force will have to decide which way to go. Personally I want to include them.

I chose those 66 teams because I think that's the way it's going to eventually happen. Theoretically, you can do any thing you want. I think 85 is too many. Ideally 64 would be perfect but we're already over that number.

(05-06-2013 07:49 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Instead of a breakaway with new leagues...lets just institute new guidelines.

How about your league or as an independant must average 25 or 30k actual turnstile count. Attendance is the easiest and most accurate way I know to determine support. I think we would see MWC and AAC included in it. Once that happens we'll have closer to 85 teams. I think it is healthier to include more. Army, Navy and Air Force will have to decide which way to go. Personally I want to include them.

I chose those 66 teams because I think that's the way it's going to eventually happen. Theoretically, you can do any thing you want. I think 85 is too many. Ideally 64 would be perfect but we're already over that number.

How do you work basketball? The NCAA BB Tourney is built on the FGCU, VCU and Butlers winning the first weekend? I'd hate to see a tourney with just 66 teams. I think there are about 150 relevant BB teams out there.

(05-06-2013 07:53 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:49 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Instead of a breakaway with new leagues...lets just institute new guidelines.

How about your league or as an independant must average 25 or 30k actual turnstile count. Attendance is the easiest and most accurate way I know to determine support. I think we would see MWC and AAC included in it. Once that happens we'll have closer to 85 teams. I think it is healthier to include more. Army, Navy and Air Force will have to decide which way to go. Personally I want to include them.

I chose those 66 teams because I think that's the way it's going to eventually happen. Theoretically, you can do any thing you want. I think 85 is too many. Ideally 64 would be perfect but we're already over that number.

How do you work basketball? The NCAA BB Tourney is built on the FGCU, VCU and Butlers winning the first weekend? I'd hate to see a tourney with just 66 teams. I think there are about 150 relevant BB teams out there.

How would I work it? I like it the way it is. Maybe even better with 96 or 128 teams but if the major schools are going to break away, they are going to take the basketball tournament with them. Too much money not too. If you want, just make this for football and every other sport stays the same.

I'm just fearful of this turning into a monster we don't need. What sez the 32 biggest schools don't breakoff and form a Super-Super FB Division? Greed and ego...you get meglomaniacs like Delaney involved who knows.

I kinda like watching midmajors play the big boys in both BB and FB. There has to be a balance in college.

My view: let's get 80-90 FB schools who can play at high support levels in FB as a subset of a larger group of schools that can support high levels in hoops and olympic sports. Maybe 150-200 total teams.

(05-06-2013 08:21 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I'm just fearful of this turning into a monster we don't need. What sez the 32 biggest schools don't breakoff and form a Super-Super FB Division? Greed and ego...you get meglomaniacs like Delaney involved who knows.

I kinda like watching midmajors play the big boys in both BB and FB. There has to be a balance in college.

My view: let's get 80-90 FB schools who can play at high support levels in FB as a subset of a larger group of schools that can support high levels in hoops and olympic sports. Maybe 150-200 total teams.

How about something like the top 64 teams picked by committee each year/2years/4years get in the high league and the rest fall to a lower league?

The more I think about it, the more I hope if it goes down with 66 teams, that it's just for football.

(05-06-2013 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Instead of a breakaway with new leagues...lets just institute new guidelines.

How about your league or as an independant must average 25 or 30k actual turnstile count. Attendance is the easiest and most accurate way I know to determine support. I think we would see MWC and AAC included in it. Once that happens we'll have closer to 85 teams. I think it is healthier to include more. Army, Navy and Air Force will have to decide which way to go. Personally I want to include them.

Something along these lines is bound to happen. Historically, during the modern era, the number of teams playing at the top level of college football has been between 80-100. We are way over those historical aveages (126 teams right now). Basically, we need to reset FBS (or create a new higher level) that gets back to around 80-90 schools. That puts things back into the "normal" range---yet doesnt reduce the size of the division so much that half the college fans get turned off. Reducing the top division from 126 to 66 schools eliminates nearly half of all FBS. Thats going to have a huge backsplash against college football and will result in much lower TV ratings. Trimming FBS baack to 80-90 schools will also have a backlash, but it wont be nearly as bad as 90 schools will cover most of the country far more completely than 66. A number in the 80-90 range would include most every school with a decent argument for being part of the top division.

(05-06-2013 09:31 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Instead of a breakaway with new leagues...lets just institute new guidelines.

How about your league or as an independant must average 25 or 30k actual turnstile count. Attendance is the easiest and most accurate way I know to determine support. I think we would see MWC and AAC included in it. Once that happens we'll have closer to 85 teams. I think it is healthier to include more. Army, Navy and Air Force will have to decide which way to go. Personally I want to include them.

Something along these lines is bound to happen. Historically, during the modern era, the number of teams playing at the top level of college football has been between 80-100. We are way over those historical aveages (126 teams right now). Basically, we need to reset FBS (or create a new higher level) that gets back to around 80-90 schools. That puts things back into the "normal" range---yet doesnt reduce the size of the division so much that half the college fans get turned off. Reducing the top division from 126 to 66 schools eliminates nearly half of all FBS. Thats going to have a huge backsplash against college football and will result in much lower TV ratings. Trimming FBS baack to 80-90 schools will also have a backlash, but it wont be nearly as bad as 90 schools will cover most of the country far more completely than 66. A number in the 80-90 range would include most every school with a decent argument for being part of the top division.

This---^

I enjoy watching AAC, MWC and a few other schools play from the GoF like Toledo, UTSA, Troy, etc.... Ninety might be the right number...25k should be the number for attendance to make the cut. I'd allow more basketball/Olympic programs to join above 90. But they would have to agree to the regulations set up by the FB 90 in regards to NCAA like rules on scholies, stipends, recruiting, etc...

For football, you have the P5 plus the AAC and MWC.
For basketball, you have those conferences, plus the BE, A10, and a couple more mid-major conferences.

For football, I'd anticipate about 96 members. Four 16 team superconferences, 30ish smaller teams, and BYU + ND as independents. Let's assume the ACC beats out the Big 12 as the last superconference.

Superconferences (64):
B1G: Current members + KU + Missouri
SEC: Current members - Missouri + NCState + Virginia School + West Virginia
Pac16: Current members + Texas + OU/OSU + Texas Tech?
ACC: Current members - NCState - Virginia School + UConn + Cincinnati + UCF/USF? (or two other schools from the AAC or Big 12)

Smaller Conferences (30)
MWC: Current members + Left out Big 12 Members (TCU + Baylor + KState)
AAC: Current members - Cincinnati/UConn + Iowa State + Southern Miss + Marshall? + UAB? + Missouri State?

Independents (2)
BYU
ND

Basketball Only (48)
BE: Current members + Saint Louis/Dayton
A10: Current members - Saint Louis/Dayton - UMass + Davidson + Belmont
MVC: Current members
Horizon: Current members + SDSU/NDSU + UNO + UMKC

That gives you a total of 144 teams, 96 in 6 football conferences, and 48 in 4 basketball conferences. Football would be a playoff with four automatic qualifiers from the superconferences, two at-large teams from the four superconferences, and then two completely open spots that could go to BYU/ND, the two smaller conferences, or to two more superconference teams.

The basketball playoff would have 48 teams. Conference regular season and tournament champions get auto-bids, for a maximum of 20 automatic bids. The remaining 28-38 bids would be at-large.

You can't go with too few schools in FB because the big boys don't want to play just BCS level teams. They need some lower level of teams to play.

BBall wise if this does happen, the big east will definitely be invited along. They add depth to the BBall side without taking any of the FB money.

It won't be a true breakaway and there won't be mass realignment either

The P5 will become their own subdivision in the NCAA for football only. They will then expand the playoff to 8 with 5 AQs for the 5 champs and 3 wild cards for the SEC (j/k...sort of :) )

(05-06-2013 10:34 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  For football, you have the P5 plus the AAC and MWC.
For basketball, you have those conferences, plus the BE, A10, and a couple more mid-major conferences.

For football, I'd anticipate about 96 members. Four 16 team superconferences, 30ish smaller teams, and BYU + ND as independents. Let's assume the ACC beats out the Big 12 as the last superconference.

Superconferences (64):
B1G: Current members + KU + Missouri
SEC: Current members - Missouri + NCState + Virginia School + West Virginia
Pac16: Current members + Texas + OU/OSU + Texas Tech?
ACC: Current members - NCState - Virginia School + UConn + Cincinnati + UCF/USF? (or two other schools from the AAC or Big 12)

Smaller Conferences (30)
MWC: Current members + Left out Big 12 Members (TCU + Baylor + KState)
AAC: Current members - Cincinnati/UConn + Iowa State + Southern Miss + Marshall? + UAB? + Missouri State?

Independents (2)
BYU
ND

Basketball Only (48)
BE: Current members + Saint Louis/Dayton
A10: Current members - Saint Louis/Dayton - UMass + Davidson + Belmont
MVC: Current members
Horizon: Current members + SDSU/NDSU + UNO + UMKC

That gives you a total of 144 teams, 96 in 6 football conferences, and 48 in 4 basketball conferences. Football would be a playoff with four automatic qualifiers from the superconferences, two at-large teams from the four superconferences, and then two completely open spots that could go to BYU/ND, the two smaller conferences, or to two more superconference teams.

The basketball playoff would have 48 teams. Conference regular season and tournament champions get auto-bids, for a maximum of 20 automatic bids. The remaining 28-38 bids would be at-large.

Keep basketball tourney at 64...TV will dictate it.

But overall I like your post.

I agree that while the big conference schools hate to share the hoops money with smaller schools, it's the David v Goliath aspect of the NCAA tournament that has helped make it so lucrative. If you take that away, I think there'd be a significant decline in interest among casual fans, which would ultimately make the tournament less lucrative. I can see a football breakaway, but anything that would impact basketball would have to include a significant accommodation for "Cinderellas".

And that is why I think the compromise will be:

No full break off so the NCAA keeps their Tournament revenues they depend on (only thing less profitable than no Cinderella is no rich, handsome prince for her to dance with)

in exchange, the NCAA is agreeing to let the P5 maximize their post season revenue in football by breaking off within the NCAA structure so only p5 teams are a part of their new post season.

It all depends on why they decide to split. If the split is about money the it is also about football. Many of the schools on this list would not make the cut.

There is also the possibility that some schools just take their football programs and form a league of just football schools. Then the question becomes, "Would the SEC let Alabama keep its Olympic sports in the SEC if they pulled their football program?"

I think anything less than 80 teams is insufficient for a separate division. I also think that any future split would be for all sports and will be based on the ability of those institutions to pay a player stipend.

That said, I don't think there would be a full split because of the success of the basketball tournament. Plus, the power schools can't even get it together enough to pass deregulation proposals or the player stipend. Those override requests aren't just from small schools. There are several P5 schools putting the squash on those proposals as well.

(05-06-2013 10:34 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  For football, you have the P5 plus the AAC and MWC.
For basketball, you have those conferences, plus the BE, A10, and a couple more mid-major conferences.

For football, I'd anticipate about 96 members. Four 16 team superconferences, 30ish smaller teams, and BYU + ND as independents. Let's assume the ACC beats out the Big 12 as the last superconference.

Superconferences (64):
B1G: Current members + KU + Missouri
SEC: Current members - Missouri + NCState + Virginia School + West Virginia
Pac16: Current members + Texas + OU/OSU + Texas Tech?
ACC: Current members - NCState - Virginia School + UConn + Cincinnati + UCF/USF? (or two other schools from the AAC or Big 12)

Smaller Conferences (30)
MWC: Current members + Left out Big 12 Members (TCU + Baylor + KState)
AAC: Current members - Cincinnati/UConn + Iowa State + Southern Miss + Marshall? + UAB? + Missouri State?

Independents (2)
BYU
ND

Basketball Only (48)
BE: Current members + Saint Louis/Dayton
A10: Current members - Saint Louis/Dayton - UMass + Davidson + Belmont
MVC: Current members
Horizon: Current members + SDSU/NDSU + UNO + UMKC

That gives you a total of 144 teams, 96 in 6 football conferences, and 48 in 4 basketball conferences. Football would be a playoff with four automatic qualifiers from the superconferences, two at-large teams from the four superconferences, and then two completely open spots that could go to BYU/ND, the two smaller conferences, or to two more superconference teams.

The basketball playoff would have 48 teams. Conference regular season and tournament champions get auto-bids, for a maximum of 20 automatic bids. The remaining 28-38 bids would be at-large.

You would need to add a couple of Western conferences as well - otherwise you are leaving out a huge chunk of the country.

WCC and Big Sky cover a huge chunk of terrority, as well as good basketball.

You alse have some political ramifications - Senators from Idaho/Montana/North and South Dakota, and to a lesser extent Arizona, Washington, Oregon, California all would not be happy with this set up.

UMKC/UNO? They are the type of program you would want to eliminate if you were trying to cut DI down.

(05-06-2013 11:32 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It all depends on why they decide to split. If the split is about money the it is also about football.

However there is just about as much money in BBall as in FB ... the reason that FB drives the bus is that the NCAA taps the BBall money to run everything else and to subsidize scholarships, with only a small fraction of the total revenues going to the schools competing in the NCAA tourney, and the big FB conferences get to keep the FB money. If the majority of the BBall money stayed with the schools/conferences, the balance between FB money and BBall money would be much closer to even.

(05-06-2013 11:43 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  You would need to add a couple of Western conferences as well - otherwise you are leaving out a huge chunk of the country.

WCC and Big Sky cover a huge chunk of terrority, as well as good basketball.

You alse have some political ramifications - Senators from Idaho/Montana/North and South Dakota, and to a lesser extent Arizona, Washington, Oregon, California all would not be happy with this set up.

UMKC/UNO? They are the type of program you would want to eliminate if you were trying to cut DI down.

I think UMKC and UNO have the potential to grow, simply because they are located in metro areas surrounded by a population desert. They may suck now, but in 10-20 years (when I see realignment on this scale happening), I think they'll be at that level.

On a state-level, I have teams from from most of the states, even though some are in basketball-only conferences. I think the only states left unrepresented are Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, and Wyoming.

However, I could see 6 football conferences and 6 basketball conferences. I was trying to give the football conferences exactly two thirds of the teams, so that they would have power in any voting scenario. However, it was absolutely necessary you could add:

Western conferences:
WCC: Current members + Long Beach State + New Mexico State + Denver + Seattle
Big Sky: Current members

Then you would have 96 football teams and 60 basketball-only teams. You would have somewhere between 12-24 auto bids, and probably enough teams for a 64 team tournament (with enough midmajor teams to satisfy anyone that wants to root for Cinderella).