(05-04-2013 07:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:24 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  So you're saying there is no correlation between attendance and TV draws?

I have argued that attendance and TV ratings are directly related to each other numerous times. Fans from schools that can't average 30K on yearly basis obviously disagree with me.

If fans don't care enough to drive 30 miles to support the hometown University on a consistent basis, how can you expect them to watch you on TV?

Any idea how many people living in Dallas dont drive to the Cowboys games but watch them religiously? There was a time when I had other commitments and I stopped going to games. We all have different priorities. There is certainly a link between attendance and viewership, but I think its more tenuous in large cities. Check out Miami or Pitt as examples.

As a Houston Texan fan living in DFW, I could care less how many show up to watch the girls in overpriced Jerryworld. Cowgirl fans are some of the most obnoxious fans on this planet and I get tired of seeing them on TV. In fact, I make it a point to change the channel unless its Sunday/Monday night football.

You are right, we all have different priorities. I consider going to Tech games as an investment in Tech's future. When conference realignment happens in the future, schools like Texas Tech with 70K in the stands and a huge TV following will be highly sought after. Fans that still struggle to fill a 40K seat stadium with prior commitments will remain in their current dire financial situation. It is what it is.

(05-04-2013 08:35 PM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 12:39 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(05-03-2013 04:48 PM)NuMexAg Wrote:  

(05-03-2013 04:36 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  The only school in Texas that would make any sense for the Big XII is UTEP. The rest don't add anything new to the conference. Besides, if the Big XII expands their number one target would likely be BYU.

Houston would add a lot more to the B12 than UTEP. El Paso is a relatively poor recruiting area for both football and BB and has 1/5 the population of greater Houston. Texas (and Texas A&M) may own most of the Houston market, but the Cougars would still add market share. UTEP owns the EP market, but from the B12 perspective, there is not much to own.

Nah. Don't see an invite...

Houston 27,247 -14% (2012) with five times the population?
UTEP 29,374 +11% with five times less population?
Rice 20,325 +17% same as Houston - pitiful

Sad, but I have to agree. No invite for any of the three listed above.
However, there is a solution here.... Invite UTEP (pop 820K) and Houston, and kick out Iowa State (Aimes IA, pop 60K) and Baylor (Waco, pop 150K).

Iowa State gets dumped on quite a but here but they put 55K in the stands on a regular basis. I like UTEP and think they would be an instant rival of Tech but when is the last time UTEP or Houston put 55K in the stands without UT or A&M coming to town? Baylor could get kicked to the curb and I wouldn't shed a tear but you have to replace them with a quality team that will help the Big 12. Is that Houston or UTEP? I doubt it

(05-04-2013 11:12 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:24 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  So you're saying there is no correlation between attendance and TV draws?

I have argued that attendance and TV ratings are directly related to each other numerous times. Fans from schools that can't average 30K on yearly basis obviously disagree with me.

If fans don't care enough to drive 30 miles to support the hometown University on a consistent basis, how can you expect them to watch you on TV?

Any idea how many people living in Dallas dont drive to the Cowboys games but watch them religiously? There was a time when I had other commitments and I stopped going to games. We all have different priorities. There is certainly a link between attendance and viewership, but I think its more tenuous in large cities. Check out Miami or Pitt as examples.

As a Houston Texan fan living in DFW, I could care less how many show up to watch the girls in overpriced Jerryworld. Cowgirl fans are some of the most obnoxious fans on this planet and I get tired of seeing them on TV. In fact, I make it a point to change the channel unless its Sunday/Monday night football.

You are right, we all have different priorities. I consider going to Tech games as an investment in Tech's future. When conference realignment happens in the future, schools like Texas Tech with 70K in the stands and a huge TV following will be highly sought after. Fans that still struggle to fill a 40K seat stadium with prior commitments will remain in their current dire financial situation. It is what it is.

You overrate attendance like its the end all be all. That is definitely not true.

(05-04-2013 11:20 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 11:12 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:24 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  So you're saying there is no correlation between attendance and TV draws?

I have argued that attendance and TV ratings are directly related to each other numerous times. Fans from schools that can't average 30K on yearly basis obviously disagree with me.

If fans don't care enough to drive 30 miles to support the hometown University on a consistent basis, how can you expect them to watch you on TV?

Any idea how many people living in Dallas dont drive to the Cowboys games but watch them religiously? There was a time when I had other commitments and I stopped going to games. We all have different priorities. There is certainly a link between attendance and viewership, but I think its more tenuous in large cities. Check out Miami or Pitt as examples.

As a Houston Texan fan living in DFW, I could care less how many show up to watch the girls in overpriced Jerryworld. Cowgirl fans are some of the most obnoxious fans on this planet and I get tired of seeing them on TV. In fact, I make it a point to change the channel unless its Sunday/Monday night football.

You are right, we all have different priorities. I consider going to Tech games as an investment in Tech's future. When conference realignment happens in the future, schools like Texas Tech with 70K in the stands and a huge TV following will be highly sought after. Fans that still struggle to fill a 40K seat stadium with prior commitments will remain in their current dire financial situation. It is what it is.

You overrate attendance like its the end all be all. That is definitely not true.

Along with TV ratings, the Big 12 and our TV partners look at attendance. TCU and their small fan base were given an exception. Similar small fan bases will have to attract large numbers of TV viewers on the tube and pack a 50K plus stadium to get an invite. Other than ECU, how many Gof5 schools can do that on a yearly basis without a big state school coming to town?

(05-04-2013 11:28 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 11:20 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 11:12 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:24 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  I have argued that attendance and TV ratings are directly related to each other numerous times. Fans from schools that can't average 30K on yearly basis obviously disagree with me.

If fans don't care enough to drive 30 miles to support the hometown University on a consistent basis, how can you expect them to watch you on TV?

Any idea how many people living in Dallas dont drive to the Cowboys games but watch them religiously? There was a time when I had other commitments and I stopped going to games. We all have different priorities. There is certainly a link between attendance and viewership, but I think its more tenuous in large cities. Check out Miami or Pitt as examples.

As a Houston Texan fan living in DFW, I could care less how many show up to watch the girls in overpriced Jerryworld. Cowgirl fans are some of the most obnoxious fans on this planet and I get tired of seeing them on TV. In fact, I make it a point to change the channel unless its Sunday/Monday night football.

You are right, we all have different priorities. I consider going to Tech games as an investment in Tech's future. When conference realignment happens in the future, schools like Texas Tech with 70K in the stands and a huge TV following will be highly sought after. Fans that still struggle to fill a 40K seat stadium with prior commitments will remain in their current dire financial situation. It is what it is.

You overrate attendance like its the end all be all. That is definitely not true.

Along with TV ratings, the Big 12 and our TV partners look at attendance. TCU and their small fan base were given an exception. Similar small fan bases will have to attract large numbers of TV viewers on the tube and pack a 50K plus stadium to get an invite. Other than ECU, how many Gof5 schools can do that on a yearly basis without a big state school coming to town?

The additon of Cincinatti does make sense due to West Virginia plus now that Louisville is going to the ACC. So does UTEP makes more sense than Houston/Rice? I still don't see it.

(05-04-2013 07:54 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:47 PM)esayem Wrote:  Based on TV then it's obvious BYU and either Boise or a military academy would be top choices. Boise is still the darling and BYU brings too many fans to ignore. ECU still has a packed stadium when Navy hangs 60 on 'em.

The military academies don't want to join the big power conferences ~ playing against those big offensive and defensive lines week in and week out tears up the bodies of the future officers and gentlemen.

Indeed, the fact that Navy was willing to join the Old Big East was kind of an indicator where the football in that conference was at, before it all fell apart.

I have to call BS on this. You think the power conferences are so much more physical that week in and week out the players will be substantially more injured. This indicates to me that the poster has no idea about the difference in the levels of play. Yes, the power conferences have better players. For instance, they may be an inch or two taller, a tenth of a second faster or three or four reps stronger in the bench press. It is not like high school players lineing up against JV or Junior high school football players.

(05-04-2013 01:42 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 12:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Imagine a Saturday afternoon in Cincy with Cincy playing UConn at your stadium and Ohio State playing say Minnesota (not Michigan or Nebraska, but Minnesota) at the Bengal's field? Who would draw the bigger crowd?

the buckeyes would sell-out paul brown stadium
against any b1g opponent
and most ooc opponents

Isn't Paul Brown Stadium smaller than Ohio St's stadium. Why would Ohio St play there in the first place giving up a higher profit from the game on seats and giving up all that concession stand and parking money. Then on top of that pay a rental fee to boot to play at the Bengals stadium.

(05-04-2013 06:50 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  So from reviewing the thread is the consensus that Cincinatti would be chosen over Houston?

Yes, I think considering that WVU needs a close rival, Cincinnati would be a leading candidate. I do think that the Big XII may take several years to make a choice & I could see Colorado State being picked, along with Cincy/someone closer to WVU. Colorado State would bring a large TV market, Denver, & would geographically fit with KU & KSU.

(05-05-2013 03:48 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 06:50 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  So from reviewing the thread is the consensus that Cincinatti would be chosen over Houston?

Yes, I think considering that WVU needs a close rival, Cincinnati would be a leading candidate. I do think that the Big XII may take several years to make a choice & I could see Colorado State being picked, along with Cincy/someone closer to WVU. Colorado State would bring a large TV market, Denver, & would geographically fit with KU & KSU.

California is probably too far away. But Fresno is at heart a Big 12 school sitting in the heart of Pac12 country. We fit the Big12 culturally. See this promotional video and see if you agree.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=pla...r_embedded

(05-04-2013 07:46 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:24 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  So you're saying there is no correlation between attendance and TV draws?

I have argued that attendance and TV ratings are directly related to each other numerous times. Fans from schools that can't average 30K on yearly basis obviously disagree with me.

If fans don't care enough to drive 30 miles to support the hometown University on a consistent basis, how can you expect them to watch you on TV?

Because it's a lot easier, cheaper, and quicker to watch them on television.

Not to mention there is stuff to do in major cities. What exactly is there to do in Fayetteville, Arkansas or anywhere in that state not within 20 miles of Little Rock or Memphis?

(05-05-2013 02:21 PM)rosewater Wrote:  I have to call BS on this. You think the power conferences are so much more physical that week in and week out the players will be substantially more injured.

No, the commandants of the service academies think that. As you are well aware (being such an expert), the service academies tend to have some of the lightest lines in FBS football ~ for instance, the offensive lines of Air Force and Army in 2012 were 253lbs and 261lbs on average, while the offensive lines of LSU and Wisconsin average 320lbs+.

(05-05-2013 11:39 PM)Caltex2 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:46 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 07:24 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  So you're saying there is no correlation between attendance and TV draws?

I have argued that attendance and TV ratings are directly related to each other numerous times. Fans from schools that can't average 30K on yearly basis obviously disagree with me.

If fans don't care enough to drive 30 miles to support the hometown University on a consistent basis, how can you expect them to watch you on TV?

Because it's a lot easier, cheaper, and quicker to watch them on television.

Not to mention there is stuff to do in major cities. What exactly is there to do in Fayetteville, Arkansas or anywhere in that state not within 20 miles of Little Rock or Memphis?

Fans that care about their University find a way to make gameday in the fall. Those that don't, go shopping etc in large urban areas instead of caring about their University and then complain because their University is stuck in a g5 conference. Fans can tout TV market and large metro cities until they are blue in the face but it doesn't matter if no one cares about you.

The concern I have with the Big XII expanding and doing so in the east is that do both #11 -and- #12 sit relatively close to WVU? I could see Cincinnati politely declining the offer because they value their "eastern" identity. Would they accept membership with the provision of another nearby institution?

I don't know if UConn, ECU, USF, or some of the others help. Sounds like an itch only Louisville and/or Memphis could scratch?

(05-06-2013 09:23 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The concern I have with the Big XII expanding and doing so in the east is that do both #11 -and- #12 sit relatively close to WVU? I could see Cincinnati politely declining the offer because they value their "eastern" identity. Would they accept membership with the provision of another nearby institution?

I don't know if UConn, ECU, USF, or some of the others help. Sounds like an itch only Louisville and/or Memphis could scratch?

Seriously---no AAC team will decline a Big-12 invitation. Any AAC member will accept before Bowlsby is finished asking the question. That goes for any of the little regional gang of 5 conferences.

(05-03-2013 03:33 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  Looking at the Big Picture and the money involved, the Big 12 will go back to twelve to have a Championship game. I believe the Big 12
will eventually invite Houston and Rice which would effect the AAC, CUSA.

The CUSA will probably pull schools from the MAC and SBC to get back to twelve.

0 chance of happening on both accounts.

(05-04-2013 01:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The difference between the Big 12 adding TCU and WVU and adding two more after that is: They had to reload to 10 schools to satisfy their TV partners. They don't have to add more now, and won't even consider it unless it means an increase in the per-school payout in the Big 12's TV deal. I'm very skeptical that ESPN and Fox would ante up enough money for any of the teams bolded above, even more so because it seems the networks are sick and tired of conferences expanding one day and demanding more money from TV networks the next day.

Everything you said was spot on. If the Big 12 didn't expand with Louisville and BYU, I don't see why they would expand now.

(05-06-2013 09:52 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 01:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The difference between the Big 12 adding TCU and WVU and adding two more after that is: They had to reload to 10 schools to satisfy their TV partners. They don't have to add more now, and won't even consider it unless it means an increase in the per-school payout in the Big 12's TV deal. I'm very skeptical that ESPN and Fox would ante up enough money for any of the teams bolded above, even more so because it seems the networks are sick and tired of conferences expanding one day and demanding more money from TV networks the next day.

Everything you said was spot on. If the Big 12 didn't expand with Louisville and BYU, I don't see why they would expand now.

I, like Bit, believe that unless rules prohibit access to the CFB Championship game without a CCG, the Big XII is really finished with expansion. The Round robin system does build conference unity.

(05-06-2013 12:49 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 09:52 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 01:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The difference between the Big 12 adding TCU and WVU and adding two more after that is: They had to reload to 10 schools to satisfy their TV partners. They don't have to add more now, and won't even consider it unless it means an increase in the per-school payout in the Big 12's TV deal. I'm very skeptical that ESPN and Fox would ante up enough money for any of the teams bolded above, even more so because it seems the networks are sick and tired of conferences expanding one day and demanding more money from TV networks the next day.

Everything you said was spot on. If the Big 12 didn't expand with Louisville and BYU, I don't see why they would expand now.

I, like Bit, believe that unless rules prohibit access to the CFB Championship game without a CCG, the Big XII is really finished with expansion. The Round robin system does build conference unity.

The original Big 12 certainly had a lack of cohesion largely along North Division/South Division lines (which were, of course, also mostly along Big 8/SWC lines). I think at this stage the remaining members do have a pretty good amount of cohesion, and that the round-robin scheduling will only serve to reinforce that.

(05-06-2013 12:49 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 09:52 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 01:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The difference between the Big 12 adding TCU and WVU and adding two more after that is: They had to reload to 10 schools to satisfy their TV partners. They don't have to add more now, and won't even consider it unless it means an increase in the per-school payout in the Big 12's TV deal. I'm very skeptical that ESPN and Fox would ante up enough money for any of the teams bolded above, even more so because it seems the networks are sick and tired of conferences expanding one day and demanding more money from TV networks the next day.

Everything you said was spot on. If the Big 12 didn't expand with Louisville and BYU, I don't see why they would expand now.

I, like Bit, believe that unless rules prohibit access to the CFB Championship game without a CCG, the Big XII is really finished with expansion. The Round robin system does build conference unity.

I think you are spot on.

(05-06-2013 12:49 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 09:52 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(05-04-2013 01:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The difference between the Big 12 adding TCU and WVU and adding two more after that is: They had to reload to 10 schools to satisfy their TV partners. They don't have to add more now, and won't even consider it unless it means an increase in the per-school payout in the Big 12's TV deal. I'm very skeptical that ESPN and Fox would ante up enough money for any of the teams bolded above, even more so because it seems the networks are sick and tired of conferences expanding one day and demanding more money from TV networks the next day.

Everything you said was spot on. If the Big 12 didn't expand with Louisville and BYU, I don't see why they would expand now.

I, like Bit, believe that unless rules prohibit access to the CFB Championship game without a CCG, the Big XII is really finished with expansion. The Round robin system does build conference unity.

I don't see a lack of a Round Robin hurting the SEC or the PAC 12 unity.