(04-20-2013 07:26 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:16 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:12 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:10 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:03 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  Yeah, I'm really disappointed in many people here that I've seen berate Obama about trampling on certain Constitutional rights (2nd amendment) but on the other hand want us to just ignore this guy's 5th and 6th amendment rights. If you support the Constitution, you have to support all of it, otherwise shut up on the rest of it. And, Smaug's right: ignoring this guy's rights this time around may make you feel good but in 20 years when you're on a plane to Gitmo you might think differently.

that is simply incorrect. he has no constitutional rights if he he acquired his citizenship upon fraudulent grounds in the first place (all of 7 months ago), which is almost certainly the case. there are many worthy grounds for denaturalization in the case of this hateful little bastard.

You keep saying that.

that's because it keeps being true.

Except you don't know that.

are you really trying to tell me that this bastard wasn't plotting this six months ago? that he was all hot dogs and apple pie until the millisecond before he remotely detonated the bomb that he placed next to an 8 year old boy and his little sister?

sending this monster to some distant dungeon will NOT, I REPEAT, WILL NOT result in the unraveling of the republic.

don't confuse citizenship with absolution. they aren't the same things.

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:10 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:03 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  Yeah, I'm really disappointed in many people here that I've seen berate Obama about trampling on certain Constitutional rights (2nd amendment) but on the other hand want us to just ignore this guy's 5th and 6th amendment rights. If you support the Constitution, you have to support all of it, otherwise shut up on the rest of it. And, Smaug's right: ignoring this guy's rights this time around may make you feel good but in 20 years when you're on a plane to Gitmo you might think differently.

that is simply incorrect. he has no constitutional rights if he he acquired his citizenship upon fraudulent grounds in the first place (all of 7 months ago), which is almost certainly the case. there are many worthy grounds for denaturalization in the case of this hateful little bastard.

What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

first of all, the number of people killed in a terrorist act doesn't make it any less of a terrorist act.

there are numerous legal grounds to strip this kid of his citizenship (quite frankly, I was a little surprised until I googled a few things, and I was so surprised that called a lawyer friend of mine)

due process doesn't apply to this ****** in the way you want it to. if the obama administration had any balls, they would be moving to strip him of his citizenship now.

you need to quit equating "what happens to him = what happens to me". you and me aren't him. please, get past that.

(04-20-2013 07:32 PM)EagleX Wrote:  are you really trying to tell me that this bastard wasn't plotting this six months ago?

No. I'm saying I have no idea and neither do you. You realize he's been in the US a lot longer than six months right? That he probably started the naturalization process the day he hit the ground?

Quote:that he was all hot dogs and apple pie until the millisecond before he remotely detonated the bomb that he placed next to an 8 year old boy and his little sister?

I had never heard of the guy until a couple of days ago, and neither had you, so who knows? I know he took a Jewish girl to the prom, so there's that.

Quote:sending this monster to some distant dungeon will NOT, I REPEAT, WILL NOT result in the unraveling of the republic.

Maybe not, but let's not start pulling threads, just the same, 'kay?

Quote:don't confuse citizenship with absolution. they aren't the same things.

What?

(04-20-2013 07:38 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:10 PM)EagleX Wrote:  that is simply incorrect. he has no constitutional rights if he he acquired his citizenship upon fraudulent grounds in the first place (all of 7 months ago), which is almost certainly the case. there are many worthy grounds for denaturalization in the case of this hateful little bastard.

What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

first of all, the number of people killed in a terrorist act doesn't make it any less of a terrorist act.

there are numerous legal grounds to strip this kid of his citizenship (quite frankly, I was a little surprised until I googled a few things, and I was so surprised that called a lawyer friend of mine)

due process doesn't apply to this ****** in the way you want it to. if the obama administration had any balls, they would be moving to strip him of his citizenship now.

you need to quit equating "what happens to him = what happens to me". you and me aren't him. please, get past that.

Actually the severity of the act does matter. Phoning in a bomb threat is a terrorist act (that is the actual charge you will get when arrested) but it's obviously much less severe than say blowing up a federal building with a daycare on the first floor.

And, yes, what happens to him could happen to me. He's a citizen of the United States of America, and so am I. If we don't protect our own, and, for the moment he is our own, then what the hell are we doing here? You act as if I'm advocating for releasing him and giving him a scholarship to Harvard. I think he should rot in prison or perhaps even be executed. That will happen. There's no need to throw out our ideals as a society and our laws as a country.

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:10 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:03 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  Yeah, I'm really disappointed in many people here that I've seen berate Obama about trampling on certain Constitutional rights (2nd amendment) but on the other hand want us to just ignore this guy's 5th and 6th amendment rights. If you support the Constitution, you have to support all of it, otherwise shut up on the rest of it. And, Smaug's right: ignoring this guy's rights this time around may make you feel good but in 20 years when you're on a plane to Gitmo you might think differently.

that is simply incorrect. he has no constitutional rights if he he acquired his citizenship upon fraudulent grounds in the first place (all of 7 months ago), which is almost certainly the case. there are many worthy grounds for denaturalization in the case of this hateful little bastard.

What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

We killed OBL without a trial. There are times when you do what needs to be done.

OBL was not a US citizen.

(04-20-2013 07:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:10 PM)EagleX Wrote:  that is simply incorrect. he has no constitutional rights if he he acquired his citizenship upon fraudulent grounds in the first place (all of 7 months ago), which is almost certainly the case. there are many worthy grounds for denaturalization in the case of this hateful little bastard.

What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

We killed OBL without a trial. There are times when you do what needs to be done.

1. not a citizen
2. not on US soil
3. was in armed conflict with our military (quite literally, not even in the metaphorical sense Obama and Bush use to justify drone strikes, he had a gun)
4. we intended to take him alive. his fault he's dead

(04-20-2013 07:46 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

We killed OBL without a trial. There are times when you do what needs to be done.

1. not a citizen
2. not on US soil
3. was in armed conflict with our military (quite literally, not even in the metaphorical sense Obama and Bush use to justify drone strikes, he had a gun)
4. we intended to take him alive. his fault he's dead

The citizen and US soil thing are pointless because dead is dead, unless being who you are and where you die matters. Point number 3 is correct. Do you really believe point number 4? I'm not sure I do.

(04-20-2013 07:38 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:10 PM)EagleX Wrote:  that is simply incorrect. he has no constitutional rights if he he acquired his citizenship upon fraudulent grounds in the first place (all of 7 months ago), which is almost certainly the case. there are many worthy grounds for denaturalization in the case of this hateful little bastard.

What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

first of all, the number of people killed in a terrorist act doesn't make it any less of a terrorist act.

there are numerous legal grounds to strip this kid of his citizenship (quite frankly, I was a little surprised until I googled a few things, and I was so surprised that called a lawyer friend of mine)

due process doesn't apply to this ****** in the way you want it to. if the obama administration had any balls, they would be moving to strip him of his citizenship now.

you need to quit equating "what happens to him = what happens to me". you and me aren't him. please, get past that.

Can you direct me to the parts of the Constitution that tell us which citizens that due process does/does not apply to?

You clearly don't understand the concept of precedence. If the gov't decides they can strip citizenship or deny due process because someone is suspected (not "already convicted") of terrorism, they can do it to anyone. Have you seen some of the things that get you put on a terrorist watch list these days?

Quote:Speaking out against government policies

Protesting anything

Questioning war (even though war reduces our national security; and see this)

Criticizing the government’s targeting of innocent civilians with drones (although killing innocent civilians with drones is one of the main things which increases terrorism. And see this)

Asking questions about pollution (even at a public Congressional hearing?)

Paying cash at an Internet cafe

Asking questions about Wall Street shenanigans

Holding gold

Creating alternative currencies

Stocking up on more than 7 days of food (even though all Mormons are taught to stockpile food, and most Hawaiians store up on extra food)

Having bumper stickers saying things like “Know Your Rights Or Lose Them”

Investigating factory farming

Infringing a copyright

Taking pictures or videos

Talking to police officers

Wearing a hoodie

Driving a van

Writing on a piece of paper

(Not having a Facebook account may soon be added)

Holding the following beliefs may also be considered grounds for suspected terrorism:

Valuing online privacy

Supporting Ron Paul or being a libertarian

Liking the Founding Fathers

Being a Christian

Being anti-tax, anti-regulation or for the gold standard

Being “reverent of individual liberty”

Being “anti-nuclear”

“Believe in conspiracy theories”

“A belief that one’s personal and/or national “way of life” is under attack”

“Impose strict religious tenets or laws on society (fundamentalists)”

“Insert religion into the political sphere”

“Those who seek to politicize religion”

“Supported political movements for autonomy”

Being “anti-abortion”

Being “anti-Catholic”

Being “anti-global”

“Suspicious of centralized federal authority”

“Fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation)”

“A belief in the need to be prepared for an attack either by participating in … survivalism”

Opposing genetically engineered food

Opposing surveillance

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=589002

You should be comparing him to Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph rather than OBL.

US citizen/terrorist act/US soil.

(04-20-2013 07:51 PM)Smaug Wrote:  You should be comparing him to Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph rather than OBL.

US citizen/terrorist act/US soil.

You seem to see it as a constitutional thing. I see it as a life being a life and who decides to take that life.

Edit: and I don't care one bit about this kid. If he dies, oh well....

(04-20-2013 07:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  You seem to see it as a constitutional thing.

Guilty as charged.

Like I said, I want this kid hung up by his Buster Browns as much as anyone, but I want due process observed even more.

If we aren't willing to presume he's innocent, and make the state convince 12 people he's not, then none of us is safe from the gulag.

(04-20-2013 07:50 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:38 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  What do you mean by fraudulent grounds? He didn't buy his passport on the black market. He went through the normal naturalization process just like anyone else. His future intentions, if he even had them at that time, in no way make it fraudulent.

what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

first of all, the number of people killed in a terrorist act doesn't make it any less of a terrorist act.

there are numerous legal grounds to strip this kid of his citizenship (quite frankly, I was a little surprised until I googled a few things, and I was so surprised that called a lawyer friend of mine)

due process doesn't apply to this ****** in the way you want it to. if the obama administration had any balls, they would be moving to strip him of his citizenship now.

you need to quit equating "what happens to him = what happens to me". you and me aren't him. please, get past that.

Can you direct me to the parts of the Constitution that tell us which citizens that due process does/does not apply to?

You clearly don't understand the concept of precedence. If the gov't decides they can strip citizenship or deny due process because someone is suspected (not "already convicted") of terrorism, they can do it to anyone. Have you seen some of the things that get you put on a terrorist watch list these days?

that is just untrue. you're just wrong. what happens to a Chechnyan that acquired citizenship in september under fraudulent grounds cant happen to me or you. well, wait. you aren't from chechnya, are you?

and there is over 200 years of precedent that says you are worried about nothing, and you are willing to risk the ability of the republic to defend itself based upon your wrongness.

(04-20-2013 08:00 PM)EagleX Wrote:  what happens to a Chechnyan that acquired citizenship in september under fraudulent grounds cant happen to me or you. well, wait. you aren't from chechnya, are you?

Keep beating that drum if you want, even though you can't possibly know what was going on in that kid's head in September.

That, and he hasn't been convicted of a crime, remember? Just accused of some.

(04-20-2013 08:00 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:50 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:38 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:23 PM)EagleX Wrote:  what do you think that the process of obtaining US citizenship entails? it simply isn't a purely administrative process of pushing around paperwork. you swear fidelity, you swear off old allegiances. you sign documents that are statements of the past and present actions.

it's just absurd to think that this guy had a hard on to be an american 6 months ago without a ton of ulterior motives.

He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

first of all, the number of people killed in a terrorist act doesn't make it any less of a terrorist act.

there are numerous legal grounds to strip this kid of his citizenship (quite frankly, I was a little surprised until I googled a few things, and I was so surprised that called a lawyer friend of mine)

due process doesn't apply to this ****** in the way you want it to. if the obama administration had any balls, they would be moving to strip him of his citizenship now.

you need to quit equating "what happens to him = what happens to me". you and me aren't him. please, get past that.

Can you direct me to the parts of the Constitution that tell us which citizens that due process does/does not apply to?

You clearly don't understand the concept of precedence. If the gov't decides they can strip citizenship or deny due process because someone is suspected (not "already convicted") of terrorism, they can do it to anyone. Have you seen some of the things that get you put on a terrorist watch list these days?

that is just untrue. you're just wrong. what happens to a Chechnyan that acquired citizenship in september under fraudulent grounds cant happen to me or you. well, wait. you aren't from chechnya, are you?

and there is over 200 years of precedent that says you are worried about nothing, and you are willing to risk the ability of the republic to defend itself based upon your wrongness.

In what way does giving this guy a trial and putting him in prison vs. summarily executing him on Boylston Street harm the ability of the country to defend itself?

(04-20-2013 07:51 PM)Smaug Wrote:  You should be comparing him to Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph rather than OBL.

US citizen/terrorist act/US soil.

you do realize that citizenship is bestowed in error, and is revoked, right? it happens all the time.

you seem to confuse "naturalization" with "dying and going to heaven", as though it happens once, and is permanent. it isn't.

(04-20-2013 08:04 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 08:00 PM)EagleX Wrote:  what happens to a Chechnyan that acquired citizenship in september under fraudulent grounds cant happen to me or you. well, wait. you aren't from chechnya, are you?

Keep beating that drum if you want, even though you can't possibly know what was going on in that kid's head in September.

That, and he hasn't been convicted of a crime, remember? Just accused of some.

dude. I saw the video. while I totally support due process, I think you are just raising the bar of snuffing out this little bastard for no good reason.

(04-20-2013 08:05 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:51 PM)Smaug Wrote:  You should be comparing him to Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph rather than OBL.

US citizen/terrorist act/US soil.

you do realize that citizenship is bestowed in error, and is revoked, right? it happens all the time.

That may be true. I'm certainly no expert on the subject. You, however, seem pretty invested in the idea that it applies here.

Quote:you seem to confuse "naturalization" with "dying and going to heaven", as though it happens once, and is permanent. it isn't.

I'm operating on the premise that he is a US citizen, with all the rights and privileges of same.

(04-20-2013 08:05 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 08:00 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:50 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:38 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:27 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  He's been in the US for over a decade. He didn't sign up to do it 7 months ago. From what I've heard his brother was likely the leader of this thing and he was just following along because he looked up to his brother so much. Of course that's speculation but there is a tiny bit of evidence behind it. At any rate, if there's evidence he was a member of a radical group for longer than he's been a citizen, OK. If this plot started after that, or there's no larger group, then try again.

He killed four people. There is a huge reaction to this thing like it was 9/11. Yes, it was a terrible act, and yes, he should and will pay for it, and yes the loss of those four people is horrible. It doesn't mean we should act as if the republic will fall if we don't literally run this guy through a wood chipper.

first of all, the number of people killed in a terrorist act doesn't make it any less of a terrorist act.

there are numerous legal grounds to strip this kid of his citizenship (quite frankly, I was a little surprised until I googled a few things, and I was so surprised that called a lawyer friend of mine)

due process doesn't apply to this ****** in the way you want it to. if the obama administration had any balls, they would be moving to strip him of his citizenship now.

you need to quit equating "what happens to him = what happens to me". you and me aren't him. please, get past that.

Can you direct me to the parts of the Constitution that tell us which citizens that due process does/does not apply to?

You clearly don't understand the concept of precedence. If the gov't decides they can strip citizenship or deny due process because someone is suspected (not "already convicted") of terrorism, they can do it to anyone. Have you seen some of the things that get you put on a terrorist watch list these days?

that is just untrue. you're just wrong. what happens to a Chechnyan that acquired citizenship in september under fraudulent grounds cant happen to me or you. well, wait. you aren't from chechnya, are you?

and there is over 200 years of precedent that says you are worried about nothing, and you are willing to risk the ability of the republic to defend itself based upon your wrongness.

In what way does giving this guy a trial and putting him in prison vs. summarily executing him on Boylston Street harm the ability of the country to defend itself?

more spectators, for one. more of a spectacle, for another. a trial will inevitably result in the exposure of intelligence gathering sources and methods. that's always a bad damn idea -- and I'm not convinced that the obamite habit of trying these bastards in court, rather than burying them at gitmo, hasn't been the cause of our intelligence methods being exposed in the first place.

and while I didn't want to blow his brains out on boylston (too messy) I do want to send him to gitmo and waterboard the little bastard until he tells us who his masters are.

(04-20-2013 08:07 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 08:04 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 08:00 PM)EagleX Wrote:  what happens to a Chechnyan that acquired citizenship in september under fraudulent grounds cant happen to me or you. well, wait. you aren't from chechnya, are you?

Keep beating that drum if you want, even though you can't possibly know what was going on in that kid's head in September.

That, and he hasn't been convicted of a crime, remember? Just accused of some.

dude. I saw the video. while I totally support due process, I think you are just raising the bar of snuffing out this little bastard for no good reason.

How am I raising the bar? I just think accused people have a right to due process before they are run up the flagpole.

Sure, the video's pretty damning, and I have no doubt it will be the prosecution's smoking gun, unless he straight up confesses, but as for how damning, that's for 12 of his neighbors to decide.

Dude.