(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

(04-19-2013 11:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 07:56 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  how is this a big blow to the conference? ACC teams stand to make millions more per home game when ND comes to town.

Maybe for some teams. Clemson doesn't need ND to sell out.

NCAA Stats

What benefit does Clemson see from Notre Dame partial membership?

No Offense to a level headed Clemson poster like yourself, but if you read some of the rants posted by former Clemson posters, you would think that the only way the Tigers could sell out was to get rid of all of the ACC schools and replace them with high-profile games (which the Clemson fans deserved to see every Saturday).
Benefits would include increased revenue and increased exposure of Clemson and Clemson athletics to a new region of the country.

(04-19-2013 11:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 07:56 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  how is this a big blow to the conference? ACC teams stand to make millions more per home game when ND comes to town.

Maybe for some teams. Clemson doesn't need ND to sell out.

NCAA Stats

What benefit does Clemson see from Notre Dame partial membership?

If Clemson continues to be good, then they will need higher profile games to be considered among the elite. FSU and SC every year is good. Having Miami on the schedule every few years is good. Now you have ND every 3 years on national TV...good. ND generally doesn't play teams like Clemson as they haven't played in over 30 years. It's good for recruiting. You get a little extra money in your pocket. It's a win-win.

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

I'm not so sure all schools are dying to have ND join full time. You'd essentially be creating another "Texas" like situation, but if ND does decide to join a conference it most likely will be the ACC. The conference will just wait it out like everyone else.

ND signing the extension does make it less likely they join the ACC but it does not close the door. I'm sure this contract has an out clause just like all others. ESPN already has split deals with other networks with other conferences so even if they had to split with NBC for a few years, they'd make it work.

(04-20-2013 02:23 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

I'm not so sure all schools are dying to have ND join full time. You'd essentially be creating another "Texas" like situation, but if ND does decide to join a conference it most likely will be the ACC. The conference will just wait it out like everyone else.

ND signing the extension does make it less likely they join the ACC but it does not close the door. I'm sure this contract has an out clause just like all others. ESPN already has split deals with other networks with other conferences so even if they had to split with NBC for a few years, they'd make it work.

The ND way you give us what you have(non-football) and we give you what we like of our share.Of course that far from equal.

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining in on the ACC's television contract would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining in on the ACC's television contract would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

I am not certain about the bolded part. I do not know that ND would have had the same cash and the same OTA broadcast exposure if it had signed with ESPN/ACC/ABC.

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I know ND ran over the Big East, but I'm not so sure they would be able to do the same to the ACC. ND could have joined the C7/Big East and kept their 5 games but they didn't. While they have Playoff access they need Bowl access, this is why they need the ACC
(score 1 for the ACC).

The ACC schools got a $1m bump per year (if recent reports are true) from the addition of those 5 games and their Olympic sports (but hockey). Nice little add but not tremendous when your making $17m per year. So the ACC doesn't need ND like the BE did. The ACC can afford to lose ND. (score another one for the ACC).

I also have to believe that the exposure that ESPN (by way of the ACC) provides Notre Dame, also played apart in shifting all their Olympic sports (but hockey) over to the ACC. After all, I'm sure NBC (as well as FOX) would really love all that content and would have paid big-time for it. Got to believe the ACC Network/ESPN gives ND more of what it is looking for than either the Big East (FOX) or NBC could offer (leverage, ACC)

I think both sides win in this agreement, and so there will be no "running over" each other. ND is fulfilling the agreement to play all the teams in the ACC. The schedule is set for the next 3 years.

FYI, we make a few coins ourselves.

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships. Most prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in ways that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

(04-20-2013 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships that most always prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in way that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

Maryland jumped because of Wallace Loh who didn't even have the guts to tell folks what he was doing for fear of backlash.


There's already a disparity between teams and that disparity is all relative. Texas makes 100 million more than everyone else over the course of a decade and there's a lot of schools still doing quite well.

(04-20-2013 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships. Most prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in ways that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

I had a better outlook on life and a lot more hope for my kids future before I read your post.

(04-20-2013 03:49 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 06:16 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-18-2013 12:21 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The ACC must just love this announcement.

I imagine they do. It likely means ND will be an ACC member in non FB for a long time to come.

Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I know ND ran over the Big East, but I'm not so sure they would be able to do the same to the ACC. ND could have joined the C7/Big East and kept their 5 games but they didn't. While they have Playoff access they need Bowl access, this is why they need the ACC
(score 1 for the ACC).

The ACC schools got a $1m bump per year (if recent reports are true) from the addition of those 5 games and their Olympic sports (but hockey). Nice little add but not tremendous when your making $17m per year. So the ACC doesn't need ND like the BE did. The ACC can afford to lose ND. (score another one for the ACC).

I also have to believe that the exposure that ESPN (by way of the ACC) provides Notre Dame, also played apart in shifting all their Olympic sports (but hockey) over to the ACC. After all, I'm sure NBC (as well as FOX) would really love all that content and would have paid big-time for it. Got to believe the ACC Network/ESPN gives ND more of what it is looking for than either the Big East (FOX) or NBC could offer (leverage, ACC)

I think both sides win in this agreement, and so there will be no "running over" each other. ND is fulfilling the agreement to play all the teams in the ACC. The schedule is set for the next 3 years.

FYI, we make a few coins ourselves.

The relationship between Notre Dame and the ACC is a win-win for both.
Keep in mind that that Notre Dame was going to join the ACC as a full member after a 7 year partial membership period the first time. Who is to say they haven't already agreed to join as a full member after a ten year period of partial membership?

(04-20-2013 05:33 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships. Most prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in ways that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

I had a better outlook on life and a lot more hope for my kids future before I read your post.

It is better to be prepared than surprised. If you think you know the truth because you listen to the news...good luck. If you think you've been educated and you are under 40...good luck with that too!

(04-20-2013 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:33 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships. Most prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in ways that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

I had a better outlook on life and a lot more hope for my kids future before I read your post.

It is better to be prepared than surprised. If you think you know the truth because you listen to the news...good luck. If you think you've been educated and you are under 40...good luck with that too!

How much does your Athletic Department give back to the University?

(04-20-2013 07:12 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:33 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships. Most prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in ways that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

I had a better outlook on life and a lot more hope for my kids future before I read your post.

It is better to be prepared than surprised. If you think you know the truth because you listen to the news...good luck. If you think you've been educated and you are under 40...good luck with that too!

How much does your Athletic Department give back to the University?

The two are separate. Last year there was some kind of give back and it may be the first of many. But the vast majority of the money goes to support non-revenue and title 9 sports like they do everywhere else. Which by the way is fairly much the norm in the SEC with a few exceptions. But, there are discussions about that becoming a bigger mission as state funding suffers setbacks. Most employees and much of the faculty of the University went for a 3 year stretch with no raises from 2008 through 2011. Last year there were merit based raises in which 3% was the maximum. If you were fortunate to get a 3% merit raise (and there were few per department) then the cost of health insurance went up about 2.7% which meant that during a 4 year period in which the purchasing power of the dollar shrank significantly that the average university employee and many faculty lost money (not a lot but still a loss). When the SSI with-holdings went up this year it finished off most of the 3% raises.

Still Auburn has done better than a lot of regional schools in this respect. Some losses have been stiffer, up to and including hiring freezes and some cuts. So there will be more support from athletic contracts drifting back into the general University coffers.

The SEC had some schools that suffered ticket sales declines and Auburn was one of those, but that was do to an on field product that wreaked under Chiz. There were 83,700 at A Day this afternoon. The SEC as a whole suffered a slight decline in ticket sales last year. Other conferences had a few percentage points more of a decline. Priorities are changing. And, HD TV is more enjoyable in many circumstances than the games. I've had season tickets for 40 plus, but have enjoyed the comforts of my on home more and more. I'll have season tickets again this year. But I am beginning to question the merits of sending of $1000 for tickets and another $800 for the right to order them. Many folks haven't had the luxury of weighing that decision. That's another reason this realignment mess is different. And the trends towards declines in ticket revenues are expected to continue downwards. College presidents are looking at their faculty and staff and questioning every state budget cut and trying to find new revenue to keep old and trusted faces around. Even whole programs of education are being considered for elimination. 100 million will mean a lot more to schools than many people realize especially if that is 10 million more per year you can bank on when laying out your 10 year plan. That's not designed to bust anyone's bubble, just to sober them up a bit.

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yeah because I am sure the ACC member schools had no desire for the possibility of ND becoming a full time member in the ACC. This 10 year extension closes the door on that opportunity.

This extension doesn't solidify ND in the ACC anymore than they were before this extension. It just solidifies that ND won't be fully joining ANY conference anytime soon.

The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

(04-20-2013 08:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:12 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:33 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All things being equal with a healthy economy and I would accept your logic as it was proven by years of relative stasis in conference memberships. Most prefer to stay where they are if they are happy and most were happy. I hope for the ACC's sake your are correct now.

But all things aren't equal. State revenue support of Universities are being trimmed, along with the rest of the squeezed state budgets. Tax revenue for the states are down because people are working less and spending less. Maybe it is not happening as much at our socioeconomic strata but it is in the lower middle-class and especially among skilled blue collar labor and wage an hour workers. As private business has been replaced with Big Box stores the sales tax revenue and property tax revenue shrinks again, because the latter doesn't locate without significant reductions, or breaks, on those rates. So to bring the promise of jobs local and state politicians cave in to the demands. The result is more private business is lost and the tax base shrinks now for both reasons, the loss of full payers with the loss of Mom & Pop, and the loss of the guaranteed breaks to the Big Box stores.

To make up for this property tax rates are raised on the private sector. The public now has even less discretionary income to spend in ways that generate tax revenue and round and round we go. The result upon our discussion is that Universities are seeking the strongest and most reliable revenue streams possible. In athletics that is in television revenue, especially because there is a trend in the country running against ticket sales increases for many, not all, schools.

So there are factors in place that have never had to be considered before. This creates the instability that is fueling realignment. I hope the ACC can resist the pressure to jump for cash. Maryland didn't and I suspect they won't be the last. So yes, I had hoped that N.D. would help the ACC in more tangible ways, especially with the T.V. contract. I never said that they should join in full, or that they would. But a switch to ESPN for broadcast of their games may have helped the ACC more. But the economic factors in place will likely be of long duration. The question is will that protracted timeline weaken the resolve of some the top brands of the ACC to keep things in order thereby spurring them to move for what in a decade could equal 100 million or more, or will they be able to ride this out? We'll see.

I had a better outlook on life and a lot more hope for my kids future before I read your post.

It is better to be prepared than surprised. If you think you know the truth because you listen to the news...good luck. If you think you've been educated and you are under 40...good luck with that too!

How much does your Athletic Department give back to the University?

The two are separate. Last year there was some kind of give back and it may be the first of many. But the vast majority of the money goes to support non-revenue and title 9 sports like they do everywhere else. Which by the way is fairly much the norm in the SEC with a few exceptions. But, there are discussions about that becoming a bigger mission as state funding suffers setbacks. Most employees and much of the faculty of the University went for a 3 year stretch with no raises from 2008 through 2011. Last year there were merit based raises in which 3% was the maximum. If you were fortunate to get a 3% merit raise (and there were few per department) then the cost of health insurance went up about 2.7% which meant that during a 4 year period in which the purchasing power of the dollar shrank significantly that the average university employee and many faculty lost money (not a lot but still a loss). When the SSI with-holdings went up this year it finished off most of the 3% raises.

Still Auburn has done better than a lot of regional schools in this respect. Some losses have been stiffer, up to and including hiring freezes and some cuts. So there will be more support from athletic contracts drifting back into the general University coffers.

The SEC had some schools that suffered ticket sales declines and Auburn was one of those, but that was do to an on field product that wreaked under Chiz. There were 83,700 at A Day this afternoon. The SEC as a whole suffered a slight decline in ticket sales last year. Other conferences had a few percentage points more of a decline. Priorities are changing. And, HD TV is more enjoyable in many circumstances than the games. I've had season tickets for 40 plus, but have enjoyed the comforts of my on home more and more. I'll have season tickets again this year. But I am beginning to question the merits of sending of $1000 for tickets and another $800 for the right to order them. Many folks haven't had the luxury of weighing that decision. That's another reason this realignment mess is different. And the trends towards declines in ticket revenues are expected to continue downwards. College presidents are looking at their faculty and staff and questioning every state budget cut and trying to find new revenue to keep old and trusted faces around. Even whole programs of education are being considered for elimination. 100 million will mean a lot more to schools than many people realize especially if that is 10 million more per year you can bank on when laying out your 10 year plan. That's not designed to bust anyone's bubble, just to sober them up a bit.

"Revenues from the NBC contract have played a key role in Notre Dame's financial aid endowment since the start of the relationship in 1991. University officers decided then to use a portion of the football television contract revenue for undergraduate scholarship endowment (not athletic scholarships). To date, some 6,300 Notre Dame undergraduate students have received nearly $80 million in aid from revenue generated through the NBC contract.

The University also has committed revenue from NBC to endow doctoral fellowships in its Graduate School and MBA scholarships in its Mendoza College of Business."


http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-...13aaa.html

"Unlike the other programs on our list, Notre Dame's athletic department operates under the umbrella of the university and is not run as its own distinct entity. As a result, a much higher share of profits are retained by university for academic use. The football team's contribution to academics totaled $21.1 million for the 2006-2007 season--that's as much as the next five most valuable teams contributed to their respective schools combined."



http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/20/notre-d...eball.html