(04-02-2013 03:34 PM)transitt Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Ummm...the discussion about teams (again) is the 03-04 vs. the 12-13 team.

Transitt said the '13 team was tougher than the '04 team and that the '13 team would win 9 out of 10 games vs. the '04 team.

Care to re-focus on that?

I said the 13 team was better...not tougher.

I think Burks may have been a BIT better than Joe, but not much.
Geron is better than either Hunt or Rice. (both of whom were good)
Crawford is more versatile than either Hunt or Rice were. Carney showed spurts that season but also did things like dribble the ball off his foot a lot. He hadn't grown into the All American we remember.

the 13 team's backcourt, imho, would be too deep for the 04 team. That's my opinion.

I also think the statement that Banks and Burks were both better than anyone on the 13 team is flawed. Yes, both put up better numbers individually. However, was the 04 team top five in the country in assists? The 13 team was more balanced

This is all conjecture. However, the discussion is ridiculous to begin with. How is it that a team goes 31-5 and people still act like the coach and all the players suck and the season was somehow a failure (and no , Saluki, I'm not being overly dramatic. If you read this board and don't see people posting in that fashion then I suggest Hooked on Phonics because it's pretty in your face).

I don't care what league we're in. 31-5 and 16-0 in conference is hard to do and requires a combination of good coaching and good playing. I cannot even believe that's up for debate on this board.

Quote:However, the discussion is ridiculous to begin with. How is it that a team goes 31-5 and people still act like the coach and all the players suck and the season was somehow a failure

Socrates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

(04-02-2013 03:34 PM)transitt Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Ummm...the discussion about teams (again) is the 03-04 vs. the 12-13 team.

Transitt said the '13 team was tougher than the '04 team and that the '13 team would win 9 out of 10 games vs. the '04 team.

Care to re-focus on that?

I said the 13 team was better...not tougher.

I think Burks may have been a BIT better than Joe, but not much.
Geron is better than either Hunt or Rice. (both of whom were good)
Crawford is more versatile than either Hunt or Rice were. Carney showed spurts that season but also did things like dribble the ball off his foot a lot. He hadn't grown into the All American we remember.

the 13 team's backcourt, imho, would be too deep for the 04 team. That's my opinion.

I also think the statement that Banks and Burks were both better than anyone on the 13 team is flawed. Yes, both put up better numbers individually. However, was the 04 team top five in the country in assists? The 13 team was more balanced

This is all conjecture. However, the discussion is ridiculous to begin with. How is it that a team goes 31-5 and people still act like the coach and all the players suck and the season was somehow a failure (and no , Saluki, I'm not being overly dramatic. If you read this board and don't see people posting in that fashion then I suggest Hooked on Phonics because it's pretty in your face).

I don't care what league we're in. 31-5 and 16-0 in conference is hard to do and requires a combination of good coaching and good playing. I cannot even believe that's up for debate on this board.

Sorry...you said just as tough. Still curious, almost as much as the 9/10 comment.

(03-31-2013 12:16 AM)transitt Wrote:  I would submit that Josh's forth year team was just as tough as Cal's forth year team and would beat them 9 times out of ten.

(04-02-2013 03:36 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 02:45 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  The 05 team also had wins agains nationally ranked Louisville and Charlotte. Had win vs. at large St. Mary's too.

More importantly, though, the comparison was between the 04 and 13 teams. Sean Banks would have been the best player on THIS year's team, and if not Banks, Burks would have been the best player on this year's team too.

Sorry to correct you, but Charlotte was not ranked when we beat them.

Liar.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...asontype/2

24 Charlotte21-6
Last Week: @ Louisville L 94-82, @ South Florida L 85-73
This Week: vs Memphis L 83-69

Half wrong; unranked in the AP. Ranked #18 in both polls the week before and falling like a stone.

So josh has only won half a game against a ranked teAm??

the argument is somewhere in between - yes, 31-5 and 16-0 in conference takes good coaching and good players and is nothing to sneeze at, but when the talent disparity is so great between the top team and the rest of the league, then you have to look at that overall record and ask who did they beat? and it was no one of consequence.

harvard i guess...and that's about it. they lost to a bad xavier team and beat southern miss three times.

i would also guess that the rest of cusa combined doesn't have as many top 100 players as memphis.

(04-02-2013 03:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  So-crates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :

Quote:What If We Replace JJ With...

Antonio Burks
Exactly what we need this year. Burks was a GREAT point guard in every way. JJ is supposedly just as fast as Burks, but almost never pushes the ball up the court like Burks did. Burks worked his ass off too.

Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

(04-02-2013 03:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Half wrong; unranked in the AP. Ranked #18 in both polls the week before and falling like a stone.

Look at you. Don't have the stones to man up.

By that logic, then, has or has not Josh garnered a win vs. a Top 25 team? As you know St. Mary's is unranked in the AP Poll.

(04-02-2013 03:53 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  So-crates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :

Quote:What If We Replace JJ With...

Antonio Burks
Exactly what we need this year. Burks was a GREAT point guard in every way. JJ is supposedly just as fast as Burks, but almost never pushes the ball up the court like Burks did. Burks worked his ass off too.

Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

(04-02-2013 03:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Half wrong; unranked in the AP. Ranked #18 in both polls the week before and falling like a stone.

Look at you. Don't have the stones to man up.

By that logic, then, has or has not Josh garnered a win vs. a Top 25 team? As you know St. Mary's is unranked in the AP Poll.

Bam^^^
II'll never forget the quote from one of the announcers during one of the games about Burks, the announcer said Burks was so quick that he could get from one end of the floor to the other quicker than when you flipped a light switch on for the lights to actually come on..something like that..Burks was IMO a better all around player than is JJ..

(04-02-2013 03:53 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  So-crates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :

Quote:What If We Replace JJ With...

Antonio Burks
Exactly what we need this year. Burks was a GREAT point guard in every way. JJ is supposedly just as fast as Burks, but almost never pushes the ball up the court like Burks did. Burks worked his ass off too.

Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

What is your stupid point? Oh right, nothing.

(04-02-2013 03:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Half wrong; unranked in the AP. Ranked #18 in both polls the week before and falling like a stone.

Look at you. Don't have the stones to man up.

By that logic, then, has or has not Josh garnered a win vs. a Top 25 team? As you know St. Mary's is unranked in the AP Poll.

Half Socrates. I know you are pleasuring yourself over the prospect of being half right for once.

(04-02-2013 08:20 PM)tigergg Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Half wrong; unranked in the AP. Ranked #18 in both polls the week before and falling like a stone.

Look at you. Don't have the stones to man up.

By that logic, then, has or has not Josh garnered a win vs. a Top 25 team? As you know St. Mary's is unranked in the AP Poll.

Bam^^^
II'll never forget the quote from one of the announcers during one of the games about Burks, the announcer said Burks was so quick that he could get from one end of the floor to the other quicker than when you flipped a light switch on for the lights to actually come on..something like that..Burks was IMO a better all around player than is JJ..

Burks had one of the greatest seasons in Memphis Tiger point guard history. No shame in saying that. Saluki, as always the clueless amateur philosopher can't tell the difference between JJ who is very good and Burks, who was an absolute beast.

(04-02-2013 09:15 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:53 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  So-crates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :

Quote:What If We Replace JJ With...

Antonio Burks
Exactly what we need this year. Burks was a GREAT point guard in every way. JJ is supposedly just as fast as Burks, but almost never pushes the ball up the court like Burks did. Burks worked his ass off too.

Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

What is your stupid point? Oh right, nothing.

Is it in your vernaculer to just f'ng disagree psycho?

(04-02-2013 10:27 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 09:15 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:53 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  So-crates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :

Quote:What If We Replace JJ With...

Antonio Burks
Exactly what we need this year. Burks was a GREAT point guard in every way. JJ is supposedly just as fast as Burks, but almost never pushes the ball up the court like Burks did. Burks worked his ass off too.

Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

What is your stupid point? Oh right, nothing.

Is it in your vernaculer to just f'ng disagree psycho?

JJ is better than Burks?

(04-02-2013 10:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 10:27 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 09:15 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:53 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  So-crates in a nutshell. He will go out of his way to make every single crazy argument under the sun to try and show Pastner in a bad light.

First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :

Quote:What If We Replace JJ With...

Antonio Burks
Exactly what we need this year. Burks was a GREAT point guard in every way. JJ is supposedly just as fast as Burks, but almost never pushes the ball up the court like Burks did. Burks worked his ass off too.

Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

What is your stupid point? Oh right, nothing.

Is it in your vernaculer to just f'ng disagree psycho?

JJ is better than Burks?

As a college player or as a potential pro?

Burks was better than JJ is!!

(04-02-2013 10:39 PM)tigergg Wrote:  Burks was better than JJ is!!

Careful some here will want to fight you for making that statement, and I mean fight you "GOOOODDD."

As to comparing toughness of players, see also:
Parrish tearing up Black

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=627852

(04-02-2013 10:32 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 10:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 10:27 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 09:15 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:53 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  First off, this is a discussion of TIGER teams. Just like a discussion about the 08 vs. the 85 team. It isn't a referendum on Kirk vs. Cal.

YOU and others are SO worried about defending JP for whatever reason that you will LOOK for fights or blindly start going crazy whenever there is a POSSIBILITY that any non-positive outcome could be inferred.

Hey, Transitt, this is what your boy Stammers said re; Burks v. Joe (http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=602206) :


Now it just turns to the tired "So-crates hates Pastner rhetoric" that you spout off when you have nothing substantive to offer. Congrats for effing up another thread.

What is your stupid point? Oh right, nothing.

Is it in your vernaculer to just f'ng disagree psycho?

JJ is better than Burks?

As a college player or as a potential pro?

Nobody brought up pro potential. Btw, I agree with most people, but I don't happen to agree with you and a couple of others very often. That makes me the opposite of a psycho.

(04-02-2013 11:26 PM)hollywoodtigerhound Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 10:39 PM)tigergg Wrote:  Burks was better than JJ is!!

Careful some here will want to fight you for making that statement, and I mean fight you "GOOOODDD."

There shouldn't be any fighting. JJ had a great season, but Burks had possibly the greatest season of any Memphis point guard in the last 25 years. You can make a reasonable argument that he had a better senior season than Rose's season.

Burks
16.0 points
5.5 assists
47.4% field goal
41.3% 3 point
2.4 steals
2.5 turnovers
2.2/1 assist/turnover

Rose
14.9 points
4.7 assists
47.7% field goal
33.7% 3 point
1.2 steals
2.7 turnovers
1.7/1 assist/turnover

It would be interesting to see Burks on the 2008 team and Rose on the 2004 team.