(03-27-2013 04:53 PM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  A nation's population size isn't a direct, absolute correlation with international football success, although a strong correlation between population size and international football success can easily be made. Some small countries can punch above their weight, but since when was Iceland or Belgium ever an international powerhouse??? I actually once saw Iceland play live, and Iceland played like you would expect a country of 300,000 would play: badly. Iceland might try to hold out for a draw against the US -- such is football strategy -- but the US would have vastly more talent. How might you think the Faroe Islands fare in international football? They do love their football too.

It seems a critical level of population is necessary to achieve a high level of success internationally. The critical mass seems to be about 40 million in population. I can't think of country with less than 40 million that has notable success. Sweden and Scotland have punched above their weight at times, but neither has won an international competition.

BTW, no Central American or Caribbean country has a population that is even remotely close to 40 million.

What I'm getting at is that given the fact that we have approximately 1000 times the number of people that Iceland does, there is no way that they should even be in our league in soccer. Yet they are much closer to our level than they have any right to be. That is not an endorsement of their aptitude, but rather an indictment of ours. Given the colossal difference in size, we are truly dreadful by comparison, and that is because we play "soccer," not football.

The U.S. has never produced a single player as good as Eidur Gudjohnsen. NEVER. Why is that? [/rhetorical question]

Re: the Edu tackle:

It should have been a penalty. However, the simulation of whiplash by the Mexican player probably influenced the ref to not blow his whistle. That's not the correct decision, but that is what I think took place. Maybe it will discourage the Mexicans from engaging in such obvious theatrics in future matches (yeah, right).

As far as Edu is concerned, that was an incredibly stupid and reckless challenge, and it should have cost us the match. He should not see the pitch again for us for some time because of that.

(03-27-2013 06:04 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As far as Edu is concerned, that was an incredibly stupid and reckless challenge, and it should have cost us the match. He should not see the pitch again for us for some time because of that.

I think that's for certain. Watching Bradley work his way through the midfield in the first half, it struck what a threat he would've been if he had better speed. To wit, could Beasley work in central midfield in front of Bradley? Having a midfield of Gomez-Bradley-Jones/Beasley-Zusi with Shea/Davis/Johnson available off the bench to provide some late speed on the wings and Edu or Beckerman (I just realized Beckerman is actually older than Beasley, by about 1 month) if needed seems like it could be pretty solid.

(03-27-2013 06:26 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 06:04 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As far as Edu is concerned, that was an incredibly stupid and reckless challenge, and it should have cost us the match. He should not see the pitch again for us for some time because of that.

I think that's for certain. Watching Bradley work his way through the midfield in the first half, it struck what a threat he would've been if he had better speed. To wit, could Beasley work in central midfield in front of Bradley? Having a midfield of Gomez-Bradley-Jones/Beasley-Zusi with Shea/Davis/Johnson available off the bench to provide some late speed on the wings and Edu or Beckerman (I just realized Beckerman is actually older than Beasley, by about 1 month) if needed seems like it could be pretty solid.

1. Commitment aside, Beckerman and Davis are not international-caliber players. The sooner that Klinsmann does not have to pick them, the better.

2. I believe in Shea, but he needs the proper tutelage and oversight. I'm not sure that he's going to get that at Stoke, though I do think that Pulis and his assistants are quite competent in many ways.

3. If things develop properly, our best midfield should be Bradley, Shea, Williams, and (???). Beasley doesn't have the pace or physicality to play there at international level anymore, at least not against the big boys.

4. Donovan will be back, and I think his hunger will drive him to one last great showing for the U.S. in 2014. As for his role on the field, I'm not certain where he would best be deployed at this point.

Also, if you give me a '14 line-up of:

Howard/Guzan
Chandler
Gonzalez/Besler
Cameron/Ream
F. Johnson
Bradley
Shea
Williams
???
Donovan
Altidore

... I'll go to battle with anyone in the world. (Yes, Dempsey is not listed.)

I've about given up on Donavan. I think he's our best option, but am not too thrilled with him at this point. What about the phenom playing in Scandinavia? Didn't they try him out at left back?

I still have faith in Dempsey. I agree with you about Stoke. I had heard good things about Pullis, at least I thought I had, but don't see it myself. The last thing Shea needs is to be surrounded by a team that thrives on - shall we say physical play and rash challenges.

(03-27-2013 06:47 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  Also, if you give me a '14 line-up of:

Howard/Guzan
Chandler
Gonzalez/Besler
Cameron/Ream
F. Johnson
Bradley
Shea
Williams
???
Donovan
Altidore

... I'll go to battle with anyone in the world. (Yes, Dempsey is not listed.)

Why wasn't Dempsey listed? Am I missing something?

I think that midfield gets eaten alive by top-tier teams. Chandler/Johnson/Williams/Altidore/Shea/Cameron are all young guys with potential to be productive but have a long ways towards establishing themselves on an international level. I didn't include Gonzalez with that group because he is turning into a star. What a match last night.

Midfield is where you have to be good to win at the top level internationally. Midfield is where we are not good. Given the dire warnings going in, I think the back line acquitted themselves well. An ugly game, to be sure, but an ugly draw at Azteca is well above our average as far as results go.

(03-27-2013 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Why wasn't Dempsey listed? Am I missing something?

I think that midfield gets eaten alive by top-tier teams. Chandler/Johnson/Williams/Altidore/Shea/Cameron are all young guys with potential to be productive but have a long ways towards establishing themselves on an international level. I didn't include Gonzalez with that group because he is turning into a star. What a match last night.

Again, we are weak in midfield, but by '14 Bradley-Shea-Williams is about the best we can hope for. I believe that all three will get better over the next 12 months; the only question is how much better. The real key to having a serviceable midfield is finding that fourth player, and boy, does that player need to be a diamond. Specifically, we need someone who can knit everything together and get the best out of Altidore. Trust me, Altidore is a player that most teams in the world would very much like to have. Right now, he is being wasted in our setup, and it must be driving him crazy.

I'm not going to get into it too much, but suffice it to say that I don't like Dempsey as a starter for us. In my opinion, he was never developed like he should have been (as a multipurpose mid), and he's gotten it into his head that he's a 9. As Spurs supporters will tell you, he's not, and what's more, he goes missing far too often in Tottenham's important matches. I like him as an impact sub, but not as a starter. I think he holds us back, especially against better sides.

(03-27-2013 09:15 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Why wasn't Dempsey listed? Am I missing something?

I think that midfield gets eaten alive by top-tier teams. Chandler/Johnson/Williams/Altidore/Shea/Cameron are all young guys with potential to be productive but have a long ways towards establishing themselves on an international level. I didn't include Gonzalez with that group because he is turning into a star. What a match last night.

Again, we are weak in midfield, but by '14 Bradley-Shea-Williams is about the best we can hope for. I believe that all three will get better over the next 12 months; the only question is how much better. The real key to having a serviceable midfield is finding that fourth player, and boy, does that player need to be a diamond. Specifically, we need someone who can knit everything together and get the best out of Altidore. Trust me, Altidore is a player that most teams in the world would very much like to have. Right now, he is being wasted in our setup, and it must be driving him crazy.

I'm not going to get into it too much, but suffice it to say that I don't like Dempsey as a starter for us. In my opinion, he was never developed like he should have been (as a multipurpose mid), and he's gotten it into his head that he's a 9. As Spurs supporters will tell you, he's not, and what's more, he goes missing far too often in Tottenham's important matches. I like him as an impact sub, but not as a starter. I think he holds us back, especially against better sides.

I don't think that Dempsey has had a long enough run of good health at Spurs this season to have a chance to fully integrate into the team. Based on his previous couple years at Fulham it seems quite clear that he is one of the most talented players that this country has ever produced. I find it shocking that you'd rather pencil in Brek Shea for your 2014 side than Dempsey. Dempsey was the only one consistently scoring for us during the first round of qualifying.

Perhaps Dempsey can generate some penalty kicks for us in the next few matches. His has a front row seat at Spurs to the most talented diver in the game today (Bale).

Dempsey will get us the goals against teams we should beat. However, I don't trust him anymore to do what is required to get us a result against a team like, say, Italy in the World Cup (and yes, I know he scored the goal in the friendly, but that was a friendly). Dempsey definitely thrives in the right environment, but only he improves as a result of improvement around him. Altidore not only improves in the right setup, but he reciprocates by making others better as well, as the players at AZ have made very clear.

Dempsey is a match-winner for a side like Fulham, but not for Tottenham. Most Spurs supporters feel he is out of his depth more often than not, and they also complain about him not tracking back. When we come up against the juggernauts when it really matters, we don't need a flat-track bully; we need someone who is fearless and hard-working, and maybe even a little bit naive. Dempsey was that guy back in '06, but not anymore; I can see Shea becoming that guy.

I know that I'm in the minority on Dempsey, but I stand firm in my assessment of him in the present. And by '14, he will only be a step slower.

(03-27-2013 06:40 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  4. Donovan will be back, and I think his hunger will drive him to one last great showing for the U.S. in 2014. As for his role on the field, I'm not certain where he would best be deployed at this point.

He's starting his comeback now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/donovan-goa...--sow.html

(03-28-2013 01:20 PM)S.A. Owl Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 06:40 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  4. Donovan will be back, and I think his hunger will drive him to one last great showing for the U.S. in 2014. As for his role on the field, I'm not certain where he would best be deployed at this point.

He's starting his comeback now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/donovan-goa...--sow.html

Karma Wrote:The Donovan-Beckham Feud - NYTimes.com

“When David first came, I believed he was committed to what he was doing,” Donovan is quoted in “The Beckham Experiment,” by Sports Illustrated writer Grant Wahl. “He cared. He wanted to do well. He wanted the team and the league to do well.”

But something changed, according to Donovan, and Beckham decided soon after the former coach Ruud Gullit was fired that it wasn’t worth his time. “He just flipped a switch and said, ‘Uh-huh, I’m not doing it anymore’.”

“I can’t think of another guy where I’d say he wasn’t a good team-mate, he didn’t give everything through all this, he didn’t still care,” Donovan said. “But with (Beckham), I’d say no, he wasn’t committed.”

Beckham and Donovan are not even comparable. Donovan is philosophical and genuine. At least he has the integrity to be honest about where he's at and not play, rather than do something like move to Hollywood and give half-effort on the pitch while collecting a massive paycheck.

They are two totally different people. If Donovan needs to sit out a few months to recharge and get his head right, that is entirely understandable. And if he thought that the U.S. couldn't qualify without him, he'd be playing right now for certain.

Donovan is the best thing that has ever happened to this country in soccer, and he is generous, thoughtful, and articulate to boot. As long as he doesn't pull a Tiger or a Lance, he should get the benefit of the doubt.

And Landon Donovan is such a better football player than David Beckham. Beckham can send in crosses and set pieces well, but the rest of his game has glaring deficiencies. He's not particularly fast; he's not particularly good at ball control; and he's lousy in the air. Most notably, he's an atrocious defender, a true liability to his team. Beckham's flaws were covered up by playing on teams that field plenty of talent, such as ManU and Real Madrid. As one of the marquee teams, even the LA Galaxy has always been better than most of what MLS has to offer. He was always essentially a specialist lacking an all-around game.

The irony is that Landon Donovan always ducked playing for the big clubs and never properly challenged himself at the top level. Beckham is thus vastly more rich than Donovan and is somehow still seen as part of the global football elite, while Donovan only makes his presence known to the rest of the world during WCs.

I saw Donovan miss an empty goal from 2 meters away at WHL a couple of years ago. My Tottenham-fan and Donovan-hating son was ecstatic.

FWIW.... I have some friends who have worked closely with various MLS teams as well as the USMNT. To hear them tell it Beckham is a extremely genuine and kind guy behind the scenes.

Agree that Donovan's game is more complete however he has never been elite in terms of international soccer and at one point Beckham was just that.

I think Becks and Posh are both far more decent and genuine human beings than one would expect of two people in their position, or than they get credit for being generally.

I give them credit for being decent people. I don't give them too much credit for being especially smart.

(03-28-2013 10:58 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  FWIW.... I have some friends who have worked closely with various MLS teams as well as the USMNT. To hear them tell it Beckham is a extremely genuine and kind guy behind the scenes.

I've always heard that too. Definitely his rep in the UK.