I think that the writers, talking heads on TV and even conference commissioners often lose sight of WHY schools join the conferences they join.

Yeah money and prestige blah blah blah.

But at the end of the day when the dust settles and another cliche or two, it comes down to aligning with like-minded schools that make geographic sense.

Arkansas State has been in the room for the formation of two conferences. The Southland and American South.

The Southland was Texas schools and Arkansas State. When Trinity and Abiline no longer shared the vision of the membership they left and the SLC became a Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana league.

When Arkansas State, Lamar, and Louisiana Tech no longer shared the vision of the Southland they formed the American South with UL, UNO, and UTPA.

Texas A&M had real problems with what the Big XII was doing but when the chance came to go to the Pac-12, they started talking to the SEC. When the peace deal fell apart, they returned to talking to the SEC.

If you've been to games in Austin and Baton Rouge and didn't know the history or the state borders, once you go to College Station, you'd say TAMU is more like LSU than UT. TAMU and Arkansas had contracted a long-term non-conference series. TAMU shares a culture of athletics that is different from that of UT or Baylor and is more like LSU or Auburn.

That core of agreement is what makes TAMU in the SEC make sense, it is what gave the Pac-12, SEC, Big 10 and the make stability, stability that existed before TV money made them too big to fail.

Fans thinking in terms of gaining and losing and climbing the ladder. Presidents are looking for that elusive best fit.

If you track conference history and see the old MVC, or the old Metro, or the old Sun Belt, or CUSA, or fBE, you see the same schools together over and over and over. Cincinnati and Memphis have been in the Valley together, the Metro, CUSA, and now former Big East. Arkansas State and Louisiana have been in the Southland, American South, Big West, and Sun Belt together.

They are finding 3 or 4 or 8 schools they share vision with that hopefully make some sense on a map. They never find nirvana because there is always some fly in the ointment. The need to appease an outlier. Jostling to maximize revenue and more recently positioning for an AQ and now positioning for the CFP at-large.

Those discordant factors lead to less than ideal alignments and sooner or later it all boils up.

Since 1963 Arkansas State has never been in a conference that didn't include at least one Texas school and since 1971 at least one Louisiana school and it's not just at a school level it goes regionally as well. 1992-2011 was the only time Arkansas wasn't affiliated with a Texas school.

Culture matters. Virginia Tech and Virginia are in the same state and the same conference but their athletic cultures are vastly different

Fans and the media can go on and on about moving up ladders and such but unless you are aligned with like-minded schools and have some regionality a league is always doomed to either fail or be greatly reshaped.

I see a major shift coming. New conferences will be formed and some will fade away. This mess will not last very long.

It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

(03-27-2013 01:25 PM)slycat Wrote:  It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

But this time it will affect three conferences. I see CUSA, Sun Belt and Amarica 12 all blowing up and new conferences being formed.

(03-27-2013 01:28 PM)statefanatic Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:25 PM)slycat Wrote:  It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

But this time it will affect three conferences. I see CUSA, Sun Belt and Amarica 12 all blowing up and new conferences being formed.

I think this happens as well. The non big 5 conferences will learn about all the money they can save by getting more geographically aligned. The non big 5 the FBS so to speak will change big time in the next few years and develop more regional conferences.

(03-27-2013 01:25 PM)slycat Wrote:  It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

Go to a LT or USM board and they are just as whiny about wanting out of CUSA, especially LT. That crap gets old real quick.

(03-27-2013 01:28 PM)statefanatic Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:25 PM)slycat Wrote:  It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

But this time it will affect three conferences. I see CUSA, Sun Belt and Amarica 12 all blowing up and new conferences being formed.

This happening could actually be a good thing even though it would be very scary as it was ongoing. It would be a HUGE mess and if we think realignment is confusing now...can you imagine what it would be like then?

(03-27-2013 01:34 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:25 PM)slycat Wrote:  It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

Go to a LT or USM board and they are just as whiny about wanting out of CUSA, especially LT. That crap gets old real quick.

Louisiana Tech fans need to gobble down some sedatives real fast and come to terms with who they are and where we all stand within the food chain. I can tell you this, once the state of Louisiana decides to stop allowing the 3% transfer out of the general fund to athletics(this will happen sooner than later), everyone not named LSU will be in a massive financial bind. University of Louisiana does not use the entire 3%, whereas Tech does...UL will have a 20 million dollar athletic budget at the end of 2013, Tech wont. Time for everybody to get real, including the delusional Tech fans.

Southern Miss better check themselves too. Take a chill pill, hillbilly motherfuckers.

Z

Mull this over.

Let's say the economics change.

Pick your poison. Cord-cutting and ala carte hurts the subscription model, Madison Avenue finds an adequate replacement for the 30 second commercial, court rules that not letting members cut their own TV deal violates the Sherman Anti-trust Act. Court rules the CFP is an illegal restraint of trade because of conference rather than team selection of participants.

Whatever happens, you don't need a conference for CFP riches and there are no longer TV riches.

What happens to the conference landscape?

In the SEC, Big 10, and Pac-12, I say not much happens. Those leagues fill the wants and needs of their members outside of money and CFP access. MAC probably tells UMass to take a hike but otherwise doesn't change. MWC probably doesn't change.

I don't think fBE, CUSA or Sun Belt you can say that about them. I'm not sure you can say that about the southern ACC and northern ACC. Outside of West Virginia, the Big XII is probably pretty content.

The Sun Belt, CUSA, fBE, and present day ACC, and WVU in the Big XII are artifical creations. They exist in their current form because of the current TV market and the rules for access to the post-season pot of gold.

When the marketplace changes leagues not built on the core of like minded schools in the same region, they die. The Metro and old Big East (and old Sun Belt) were created to take advantage of the expansion of auto bids to the NCAA tournament and the newly developing business of regional and nation cablecasting. When the market changed (first bowls tying to leagues, the eventually the BCS, the change in the TV environment) they changed to new forms.

We are in the early stages of a change. It may be triggered by further Big 10 expansion in a few weeks or it may be triggered by a more fundamental change in the marketplace, but it is coming.

Isnt CUSA pretty compact right now? Other then UTEP way the hell out there its pretty much a SE league too.

(03-27-2013 01:28 PM)statefanatic Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:25 PM)slycat Wrote:  It's like the WAC all over again. Everyone wants out.

But this time it will affect three conferences. I see CUSA, Sun Belt and Amarica 12 all blowing up and new conferences being formed.

In before the meltdown!

(03-27-2013 12:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Arkansas State has been in the room for the formation of two conferences. The Southland and American South.

The Southland was Texas schools and Arkansas State. When Trinity and Abiline no longer shared the vision of the membership they left and the SLC became a Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana league.

When Arkansas State, Lamar, and Louisiana Tech no longer shared the vision of the Southland they formed the American South with UL, UNO, and UTPA.

....
If you track conference history and see the old MVC, or the old Metro, or the old Sun Belt, or CUSA, or fBE, you see the same schools together over and over and over. Cincinnati and Memphis have been in the Valley together, the Metro, CUSA, and now former Big East. Arkansas State and Louisiana have been in the Southland, American South, Big West, and Sun Belt together.

They are finding 3 or 4 or 8 schools they share vision with that hopefully make some sense on a map. They never find nirvana because there is always some fly in the ointment. The need to appease an outlier. Jostling to maximize revenue and more recently positioning for an AQ and now positioning for the CFP at-large.

Those discordant factors lead to less than ideal alignments and sooner or later it all boils up.

Since 1963 Arkansas State has never been in a conference that didn't include at least one Texas school and since 1971 at least one Louisiana school and it's not just at a school level it goes regionally as well. 1992-2011 was the only time Arkansas wasn't affiliated with a Texas school.

Culture matters. Virginia Tech and Virginia are in the same state and the same conference but their athletic cultures are vastly different

Fans and the media can go on and on about moving up ladders and such but unless you are aligned with like-minded schools and have some regionality a league is always doomed to either fail or be greatly reshaped.

FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

(03-27-2013 03:00 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

You were also conference mates with Georgia Southern back then as well. You conveniently forgot that.

(03-27-2013 01:23 PM)statefanatic Wrote:  I see a major shift coming. New conferences will be formed and some will fade away. This mess will not last very long.

If people wouldn't panic and stick with the SBC, this conference would survive and things would be OK.

(03-27-2013 03:00 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 12:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Arkansas State has been in the room for the formation of two conferences. The Southland and American South.

The Southland was Texas schools and Arkansas State. When Trinity and Abiline no longer shared the vision of the membership they left and the SLC became a Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana league.

When Arkansas State, Lamar, and Louisiana Tech no longer shared the vision of the Southland they formed the American South with UL, UNO, and UTPA.

....
If you track conference history and see the old MVC, or the old Metro, or the old Sun Belt, or CUSA, or fBE, you see the same schools together over and over and over. Cincinnati and Memphis have been in the Valley together, the Metro, CUSA, and now former Big East. Arkansas State and Louisiana have been in the Southland, American South, Big West, and Sun Belt together.

They are finding 3 or 4 or 8 schools they share vision with that hopefully make some sense on a map. They never find nirvana because there is always some fly in the ointment. The need to appease an outlier. Jostling to maximize revenue and more recently positioning for an AQ and now positioning for the CFP at-large.

Those discordant factors lead to less than ideal alignments and sooner or later it all boils up.

Since 1963 Arkansas State has never been in a conference that didn't include at least one Texas school and since 1971 at least one Louisiana school and it's not just at a school level it goes regionally as well. 1992-2011 was the only time Arkansas wasn't affiliated with a Texas school.

Culture matters. Virginia Tech and Virginia are in the same state and the same conference but their athletic cultures are vastly different

Fans and the media can go on and on about moving up ladders and such but unless you are aligned with like-minded schools and have some regionality a league is always doomed to either fail or be greatly reshaped.

FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

USA was in a conference with UAB, USF, ODU, VCU, etc for years and we fir in well. That counts for little in today's world.

(03-27-2013 03:07 PM)southern edumacation Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:00 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

You were also conference mates with Georgia Southern back then as well. You conveniently forgot that.

Not when I was in school. However, we share nothing in common culturally with GaSo or Troy, so they didn't fit the standard.

(03-27-2013 03:39 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:07 PM)southern edumacation Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:00 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

You were also conference mates with Georgia Southern back then as well. You conveniently forgot that.

Not when I was in school. However, we share nothing in common culturally with GaSo or Troy, so they didn't fit the standard.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling......

You are just mad because two rednecks just parked their trucks in front of your gangsta party and the rednecks who were already living behind your house (Troy) already told you to turn the music down a few times.......

(03-27-2013 04:18 PM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:39 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:07 PM)southern edumacation Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:00 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

You were also conference mates with Georgia Southern back then as well. You conveniently forgot that.

Not when I was in school. However, we share nothing in common culturally with GaSo or Troy, so they didn't fit the standard.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling......

You are just mad because two rednecks just parked their trucks in front of your gangsta party and the rednecks who were already living behind your house (Troy) already told you to turn the music down a few times.......

Georgia State doesnt fit, and really hasnt fit. Take a look at the current SBC. App State, Ga Southern, Troy, ASU, ULM, even Texas State. All of us are in small towns. Jonesboro may be the 3rd largest city in Arkansas, but we only have 67,000 people. WKU is small. Now, we're all decently close to a major city, but we just threw a school built in a city of a few million people, into a situation where their fans will have to travel to Troy, AL and its 18,000 or so people every other year. Its culture shock.

Its all about what fits.

(03-27-2013 05:18 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 04:18 PM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:39 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:07 PM)southern edumacation Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:00 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  FWIW, this is exactly why GSU is no longer a fit in the Sun Belt. Going back to our TAAC/A-Sun Days, we were conference mates with UTSA, UCF, FIU, and FAU - that is who we "fit" with. It's not a slight against the other Sun Belt teams to say this, it's just recognition of the proper cultural fit.

You were also conference mates with Georgia Southern back then as well. You conveniently forgot that.

Not when I was in school. However, we share nothing in common culturally with GaSo or Troy, so they didn't fit the standard.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling......

You are just mad because two rednecks just parked their trucks in front of your gangsta party and the rednecks who were already living behind your house (Troy) already told you to turn the music down a few times.......

Georgia State doesnt fit, and really hasnt fit. Take a look at the current SBC. App State, Ga Southern, Troy, ASU, ULM, even Texas State. All of us are in small towns. Jonesboro may be the 3rd largest city in Arkansas, but we only have 67,000 people. WKU is small. Now, we're all decently close to a major city, but we just threw a school built in a city of a few million people, into a situation where their fans will have to travel to Troy, AL and its 18,000 or so people every other year. Its culture shock.

Its all about what fits.

I agree but I think they CAN fit. The only issue is will that happen before or after they learn how to score more points than other teams and then go to CUSA?

(03-27-2013 05:21 PM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 05:18 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 04:18 PM)ManOnABuffalo Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:39 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:07 PM)southern edumacation Wrote:  You were also conference mates with Georgia Southern back then as well. You conveniently forgot that.

Not when I was in school. However, we share nothing in common culturally with GaSo or Troy, so they didn't fit the standard.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling......

You are just mad because two rednecks just parked their trucks in front of your gangsta party and the rednecks who were already living behind your house (Troy) already told you to turn the music down a few times.......:lmfao::lmfao::cheers::stirthepot:

Georgia State doesnt fit, and really hasnt fit. Take a look at the current SBC. App State, Ga Southern, Troy, ASU, ULM, even Texas State. All of us are in small towns. Jonesboro may be the 3rd largest city in Arkansas, but we only have 67,000 people. WKU is small. Now, we're all decently close to a major city, but we just threw a school built in a city of a few million people, into a situation where their fans will have to travel to Troy, AL and its 18,000 or so people every other year. Its culture shock.

Its all about what fits.

I agree but I think they CAN fit. The only issue is will that happen before or after they learn how to score more points than other teams and then go to CUSA?

Georgia State has to worry about winning on the field and that's it for the moment.