(03-25-2013 10:10 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  How is there a thread relating to VCU's qualifications vs. other teams with 400 posts, and this tired argument STILL spills into every other thread?

Surely THIS will put the nail in that coffin!

No, but as a group, the constant attemtps to belittle other programs to prop up your own is turning you guys into clones of East Caroline fans, the ones who ruined the old Big East board. Food for thought.

(03-25-2013 10:24 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  No, but as a group, the constant attemtps to belittle other programs to prop up your own is turning you guys into clones of East Caroline fans, the ones who ruined the old Big East board. Food for thought.

You have me confused with the poster who brought it up and the poster who responded in kind. Neither is a VCU fan.

VCU and SLU both failed miserably in the tournament. Both embarrassed themselves.

(03-25-2013 11:01 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:24 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  No, but as a group, the constant attempts to belittle other programs to prop up your own is turning you guys into clones of East Caroline fans, the ones who ruined the old Big East board. Food for thought.

You have me confused with the poster who brought it up and the poster who responded in kind. Neither is a VCU fan.

I know who I am talking about. And do not let who his profile says he is a fan of: he may also root for Georgetown, but he is also a fan of VCU.

(03-25-2013 11:23 AM)LouPower Wrote:  VCU and SLU both failed miserably in the tournament. Both embarrassed themselves.

Every game outside of the Butler/Marquette game was a blow out saturday.

(03-25-2013 10:18 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:10 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  How is there a thread relating to VCU's qualifications vs. other teams with 400 posts, and this tired argument STILL spills into every other thread?

Surely THIS will put the nail in that coffin!

Because there's an irreconcilable argument. VCU is NOT a private, Catholic school. They ARE the best non-FBS basketball program east of Gonzaga, setting aside schools already in the Big East.

If the Big East is about being urban, private, Catholic non-FBS schools, VCU is out because they fail on 2 out of 4. If the Big East is about being the best non-FBS basketball conference, then they should be in.

The problem is, we won't know until invites #11 and 12 come--or officially don't come--what the Big East wants to be. And there are people who are trying to argue to square the circle, that it's not a problem because VCU's Final Four run shouldn't count, that SLU or Dayton or Richmond is a comparable program anyway.

(03-25-2013 11:33 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:01 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:24 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  No, but as a group, the constant attempts to belittle other programs to prop up your own is turning you guys into clones of East Caroline fans, the ones who ruined the old Big East board. Food for thought.

You have me confused with the poster who brought it up and the poster who responded in kind. Neither is a VCU fan.

I know who I am talking about. And do not let who his profile says he is a fan of: he may also root for Georgetown, but he is also a fan of VCU.

Hard to follow when you're not quoting anyone, but your remark followed a Dayton"fan of upsets" and SJU fan going back and forth over who had the better tourney showing, so you can see why your comment about how VCU fans are ruining a Louisville fan's party prompted a response.

I'm not a Dayton fan, BTW.


The point is, it's a total crapshoot. VCU drew the worst possible opponent for them to face. Their whole scheme is attacking ballhandlers and forcing a non-PG who isn't comfortable with the rock into turnovers... and they drew a team with multiple guards with PG handles, who committed the fewest turnovers in the entire nation.

SLU played a 12 seed who should have been an 8.

And LaSalle played a team in R32 that was one of the last teams into the tournament.

Not to mention that a team who had a better regular season (8/9 seed) has a HARDER TIME making the Sweet 16 than the last team to get a R64 at-large (11 seed).

There's not a rhyme or reason to it. The best teams win consistently, over time. Over time, teams like UNC, Duke, Kansas, Syracuse get to the Sweet 16 consistently. But on an individual tournament basis, all of those teams have been bounced early in recent years. Breaking down a program to a weekend or two in March is a fools errand.

I think though the publicity that schools get by the tourney is worth so much. I mean, I think Butler got a valuation on how much PR they got- something like 600 million dollars plus was what they came up with.

Also, the programs that are fighting for the BE 11/12 slots- none are in a really strong position.

And- you are saying SLU played a 12 who should have been a 8. Well, if that's the case, the 5 beats the new 12 and then they're playing a 5 in the 2nd round. So, personally I'm not giving SLU much leeway there.

Remember the premise...tournament success.

VCU and SLU in this tournament failed.

VCU is a good program with a trump card of a recent Final 4. I think SLU's loss is damaging in the whole scenario. Win one tournament game? Who cares? Like someone bringing up appearances...gotta do something with it.

(03-25-2013 01:25 PM)LouPower Wrote:  Remember the premise...tournament success.

VCU and SLU in this tournament failed.

VCU is a good program with a trump card of a recent Final 4. I think SLU's loss is damaging in the whole scenario. Win one tournament game? Who cares? Like someone bringing up appearances...gotta do something with it.

I still think St Louis is a front runner for #11...facilities, fan support, location, fit, and a good basketball program.

Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

(03-25-2013 04:16 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

By "Become the A-10" you mean "get a respectable amount of bids, but not go deep into the tournament?" I assume.

#1 - Most of your candidates ARE Atlantic 10 schools.
#2 - There' might be "no guarantees," but that doesn't make the numbers 50/50. There's no guarantees a 2 seed beats a 15, but you like your chances.
#3 - No, all the possible new members are not equal. But what each does for the OTHER members of the league isn't equal either. There's a lot of positives over taking the best available program. There's also some negatives, like every time they beat your team.

(03-25-2013 04:16 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

I disagree. If this were the case George Mason would have been invited if we split in '07. Should we invite FGCU? No. Im sorry but I don't see Smarts time in the Richmond area continuing much longer. I see a bunch of schools with greater resources who will give him the ability to run his philosophy better than he can now at VCU. I think a lot of people saw that on Saturday. Good system, just needs better athletes.

(03-25-2013 04:40 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:16 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

I disagree. If this were the case George Mason would have been invited if we split in '07. Should we invite FGCU? No. Im sorry but I don't see Smarts time in the Richmond area continuing much longer. I see a bunch of schools with greater resources who will give him the ability to run his philosophy better than he can now at VCU. I think a lot of people saw that on Saturday. Good system, just needs better athletes.

I think it'll be interesting if VCU got into the Big East- would have to think he'd get the better athletes recruiting into this conference. If he goes into the Big East and can't get the athletes there- that wouldn't speak well for our conference.

Also, with how much money VCU gets from all the publicity, wouldn't be shocked if they make it worthwhile to keep Smart even now.

(03-25-2013 04:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:40 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:16 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

I disagree. If this were the case George Mason would have been invited if we split in '07. Should we invite FGCU? No. Im sorry but I don't see Smarts time in the Richmond area continuing much longer. I see a bunch of schools with greater resources who will give him the ability to run his philosophy better than he can now at VCU. I think a lot of people saw that on Saturday. Good system, just needs better athletes.

I think it'll be interesting if VCU got into the Big East- would have to think he'd get the better athletes recruiting into this conference. If he goes into the Big East and can't get the athletes there- that wouldn't speak well for our conference.

Also, with how much money VCU gets from all the publicity, wouldn't be shocked if they make it worthwhile to keep Smart even now.

But it's not just about paying him. It's also about being able to build the type of facilities that will get the best kids to come to VCU. Conferences like SEC and B1G can afford those things. The UM game showed some serious flaws in Smarts style. He needs better athletes to compete at the highest level.

(03-25-2013 04:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  But it's not just about paying him. It's also about being able to build the type of facilities that will get the best kids to come to VCU. Conferences like SEC and B1G can afford those things. The UM game showed some serious flaws in Smarts style. He needs better athletes to compete at the highest level.

So, we're building a practice facility that when all is said and done will be in the $20 million dollar range. Planning for this began immediately after the Final Four run. Ground breaking is this spring. Shaka and VCU are the first school and coach in Virginia to ever graduate back-to-back first round NBA draftees. Aside from upgrading the stadium from 7,500 to, say, 10,000, that's about as top-of-the-line as it gets in terms of getting recruits. Somehow an extra $2.5 million in TV money is going get us a rented 18,000 seat arena? No.

The UM game showed "flaws" in the style in that the style was matched with the best ball-handling team in the country (at home) with a front court full of future first round NBA draftees. Oh, and the style lost its 7-footer just before the tournament. You can't make the press work when the shots aren't dropping and you don't have a tree like Dieng to keep people honest in the lane and around the rim, but that's situational and NOT structural. Imagine what that same "flawed" style would have done to a KU team that shot 0% from 3 and got turned over 17 times by WKU. If you really think Shaka went home and said "darn, if only I was in the Big East we could have lost by 15 instead of 25!" then I don't know what to tell you.

(03-25-2013 04:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:40 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:16 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

I disagree. If this were the case George Mason would have been invited if we split in '07. Should we invite FGCU? No. Im sorry but I don't see Smarts time in the Richmond area continuing much longer. I see a bunch of schools with greater resources who will give him the ability to run his philosophy better than he can now at VCU. I think a lot of people saw that on Saturday. Good system, just needs better athletes.

I think it'll be interesting if VCU got into the Big East- would have to think he'd get the better athletes recruiting into this conference. If he goes into the Big East and can't get the athletes there- that wouldn't speak well for our conference.

Also, with how much money VCU gets from all the publicity, wouldn't be shocked if they make it worthwhile to keep Smart even now.

But it's not just about paying him. It's also about being able to build the type of facilities that will get the best kids to come to VCU. Conferences like SEC and B1G can afford those things. The UM game showed some serious flaws in Smarts style. He needs better athletes to compete at the highest level.

Right but what I'm getting at, if he gets VCU in the Big East, I would hope that he would be able to get the better athletes to compete. If he can't at that point and has to leave, that speaks more to our conference than anything else.