(03-25-2013 07:47 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

I actually agree with you. Everyone wants 4-16 because it sounds clean and neat but it's logistically impossible unless the Big 12 is the conference that dies. PAC is not going to 16 without Texas. I also agree with you that if Texas, ND, and especially ESPN want to stop realignment they pretty much can. If Texas keeps the B12 at 10, ND sticks with the ACC either partially or eventually all sports, and ESPN closes the gap ACC's gap enough with the other leagues to keep them around then realignment is pretty much done for a while. I think ESPN has a big incentive to keep the ACC stable. It's the only contract league they own completely.

The ACC is destined to become the new BE.
The B12 needs two Florida schools at least likely Miami,FSU
The B10 wants two schools at least the most likely are UVA and GaTech

While ND is happy with the ACC many of ACC traditional schools(non-BE) are not.

(03-25-2013 08:22 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  The ACC is destined to become the new BE.
The B12 needs two Florida schools at least likely Miami,FSU
The B10 wants two schools at least the most likely are UVA and GaTech

While ND is happy with the ACC many of ACC traditional schools(non-BE) are not.

Gotta love how outsiders (e.g. a UConn fan) know how ACC schools feel about the conference.

Also, it's amazing how many fortune tellers lurk on this board... always telling us about the "destiny" of the ACC.

Of course, this has NOTHING to do with jealousy or feelings of rejection.

(right?)

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

ACC matches ND as an institution better than any of the other conferences. But I think eventually ND will feel the need to join a conference in fb and won't want to play 8 games against ACC schools and will eventually end up in Big 10. Remember, ND's administration agreed to join the Big 10 in 1999 and the faculty was enthusiastic, but the board of trustees voted it down. But that change is not going to happen in this set of TV contracts. ND is set in their independence now and there isn't anything forcing an immediate change.

So you think the ACC matches ND better as an institution but feel it is more likely they join the Big Ten rather than just adding two or three more games to the conference they are already in?

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

Which conference do you think they would choose?

I could see the Big 10 make this move, add uva and fsu, than stop at 16. I think FSU trumps Ga tech and i don't like going past 16. Also, don't see how the academic types could complain, your getting UVA and let's throw in johns hopkins too for lacrosse/cic + FSU isn't that bad and they bring so much to table outside of academics. I'd go with this setup:

A: Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, UVA

B: Michigan, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue

C: Northwestern, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska

D: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Florida State

football 9 game schedule: 3 pod, 1 permanent and 1 rotated from other 2 pods. I have no idea of the effects on the other leagues. I would guess acc would invite uconn and cincy to replace uva and fsu, than try to work out a alliance with the big 12 real quick. The big 12 could go for the alliance or try to start picking off acc school's, i'd go with Miami getting a solo invite with fsu being gone...if they fly away, everybody would be looking. The sec probably would tell unc you better call us, not sure if they would want to call the sec though. With uva gone, the sec would be free to pick off va tech with no politics involved, than that opens up spot 16 for nc state or unc. Which brings us back to unc, do they package a deal with duke to the sec or see nc state try to jump with va tech to the sec? Does the sec prefer the combo of duke and unc over nc state and va tech or would they jump to 18 with all 4. Of course, all of this involves the premise UVa goes to the big 10, that doesn't feel right but nothing with expansion is perfect, and the big 10 stops at 16.

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

The last one is fairly significant, I think. ND had an "out" with the C7/Big East. It could have backed out of the ACC deal and joined that conference for other sports. It chose to move up its entry into the ACC.

I don't believe that ND would move into the ACC in July, 2013 if it thought that the conference was going to be raided and destroyed.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

(03-24-2013 09:42 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 03:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 01:48 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 10:18 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-19-2013 06:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  But they could use some inventory for the LHN. Since ESPN owns the content for the ACC and the LHN it is a marriage made in heaven.

This could very well be the end game for ESPN, ACC and Big 12. Roll the LHN into an expanded network shared by ACC and Big12. That could be quite a lucrative deal moving forward. But who knows. As I and a few of us in the minority believe - the ACC is largely stable and I don't see the Big12 being poached either. We're getting to the point where too much more movement will hurt the schools more than benefit them by getting into a conference with more money. FSU and Clemson did not pursue the Big12 in the end because the fit is not there. The geography simply does not work. Just like the geography does not work for the B1G trying to get into the southeast. It's quite telling that a school like ND - which is objectively a better fit for the B1G than any southern ACC school - wants no part of joining the B1G. The reason is simple: ND does not want to be associated with the midwest. Why would schools in Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia want to lock themselves into the midwest? It makes no sense.

Anyways, who knows what will really happen in the end. I'll never say never, but logically, I think this is designed to get a network for both conferences off the ground. I also think that geography is now coming into play here.

You say "ND wants no part of joining the Big10 becsause they do not want to be associated with the Midwest". I disagree...ND does not want to join the Big10 because they do not want to give up their independence, not because they do dont want to be associated with the Midwest. Notre Dame is the Midwest!!

If ND ever decides to join a conference, their first choice will most likely be the Big10.

It is both. ND wants to remain independent and also not "pigeon holed" as a Midwestern school.

ND wants the major Eastern markets from Boston to Miami.

Jack Swarbrick told Brian Hamilton of the Chicago Tribune a few days ago that with their schedule and move to the ACC, ND sports will play in 11 of the top 12 markets in the USA.

ND's first, second or third choice of a conference will not be the Big Ten.

ND has done all that it can for years to stay the hell out of the Big Ten, ever since it rejected the Big Ten's offer in 1999.

If ND has to join a conference, it will not want to join the Big Ten.

Terry, as I said in my OP, I believe Notre Dame wants to remain Independent, probably until the last dog dies.

However, I have a question. It appears that most knowledgeable people believe realignment will continue. Also, many believe the Big10, the SEC and the Big12 will poach most all of the ACC teams and we will then end up with 4 major conferences, the Big10, SEC, Big12 and PAC12. If the playoffs develop to the point Notre Dame is forced to join a conference. Which conference will they want to join?.......... if as you say their first, second, or third choice will not be the Big10?

"Most knowledgeable people beleive that realignment will continue........poach all of the ACC teams.
No offense but most people that I know, or read, and trust beleive that realignment is done for a while. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

(03-25-2013 10:24 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 09:42 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 03:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 01:48 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 10:18 AM)miko33 Wrote:  This could very well be the end game for ESPN, ACC and Big 12. Roll the LHN into an expanded network shared by ACC and Big12. That could be quite a lucrative deal moving forward. But who knows. As I and a few of us in the minority believe - the ACC is largely stable and I don't see the Big12 being poached either. We're getting to the point where too much more movement will hurt the schools more than benefit them by getting into a conference with more money. FSU and Clemson did not pursue the Big12 in the end because the fit is not there. The geography simply does not work. Just like the geography does not work for the B1G trying to get into the southeast. It's quite telling that a school like ND - which is objectively a better fit for the B1G than any southern ACC school - wants no part of joining the B1G. The reason is simple: ND does not want to be associated with the midwest. Why would schools in Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia want to lock themselves into the midwest? It makes no sense.

Anyways, who knows what will really happen in the end. I'll never say never, but logically, I think this is designed to get a network for both conferences off the ground. I also think that geography is now coming into play here.

You say "ND wants no part of joining the Big10 becsause they do not want to be associated with the Midwest". I disagree...ND does not want to join the Big10 because they do not want to give up their independence, not because they do dont want to be associated with the Midwest. Notre Dame is the Midwest!!

If ND ever decides to join a conference, their first choice will most likely be the Big10.

It is both. ND wants to remain independent and also not "pigeon holed" as a Midwestern school.

ND wants the major Eastern markets from Boston to Miami.

Jack Swarbrick told Brian Hamilton of the Chicago Tribune a few days ago that with their schedule and move to the ACC, ND sports will play in 11 of the top 12 markets in the USA.

ND's first, second or third choice of a conference will not be the Big Ten.

ND has done all that it can for years to stay the hell out of the Big Ten, ever since it rejected the Big Ten's offer in 1999.

If ND has to join a conference, it will not want to join the Big Ten.

Terry, as I said in my OP, I believe Notre Dame wants to remain Independent, probably until the last dog dies.

However, I have a question. It appears that most knowledgeable people believe realignment will continue. Also, many believe the Big10, the SEC and the Big12 will poach most all of the ACC teams and we will then end up with 4 major conferences, the Big10, SEC, Big12 and PAC12. If the playoffs develop to the point Notre Dame is forced to join a conference. Which conference will they want to join?.......... if as you say their first, second, or third choice will not be the Big10?

"Most knowledgeable people beleive that realignment will continue........poach all of the ACC teams.
No offense but most people that I know, or read, and trust beleive that realignment is done for a while. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Certainly no offense taken...message boards are for debate of opposing views. The debating is why I enjoy them so much. I am basing my opinion on what so many of the media and the people involved are saying.

So I agree....we disagree, thats cool. Hopefully we will find out sooner rather than later.

(03-25-2013 10:55 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:24 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 09:42 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 03:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 01:48 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  You say "ND wants no part of joining the Big10 becsause they do not want to be associated with the Midwest". I disagree...ND does not want to join the Big10 because they do not want to give up their independence, not because they do dont want to be associated with the Midwest. Notre Dame is the Midwest!!

If ND ever decides to join a conference, their first choice will most likely be the Big10.

It is both. ND wants to remain independent and also not "pigeon holed" as a Midwestern school.

ND wants the major Eastern markets from Boston to Miami.

Jack Swarbrick told Brian Hamilton of the Chicago Tribune a few days ago that with their schedule and move to the ACC, ND sports will play in 11 of the top 12 markets in the USA.

ND's first, second or third choice of a conference will not be the Big Ten.

ND has done all that it can for years to stay the hell out of the Big Ten, ever since it rejected the Big Ten's offer in 1999.

If ND has to join a conference, it will not want to join the Big Ten.

Terry, as I said in my OP, I believe Notre Dame wants to remain Independent, probably until the last dog dies.

However, I have a question. It appears that most knowledgeable people believe realignment will continue. Also, many believe the Big10, the SEC and the Big12 will poach most all of the ACC teams and we will then end up with 4 major conferences, the Big10, SEC, Big12 and PAC12. If the playoffs develop to the point Notre Dame is forced to join a conference. Which conference will they want to join?.......... if as you say their first, second, or third choice will not be the Big10?

"Most knowledgeable people beleive that realignment will continue........poach all of the ACC teams.
No offense but most people that I know, or read, and trust beleive that realignment is done for a while. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Certainly no offense taken...message boards are for debate of opposing views. The debating is why I enjoy them so much. I am basing my opinion on what so many of the media and the people involved are saying.

So I agree....we disagree, thats cool. Hopefully we will find out sooner rather than later.

Quit listening to "The Dude"

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

Swarbick and the ACC and ESPN lived by the sword of poaching from the BE

Now it will be their turn.
Obviously Maryland has left the ACC

Some ACC schools seek a better environment in terms of dollars,being with other great football schools or being in a superior academic environment.

The ACC will not die it will become the new BE.

Those for the most part who want to leave the ACC come from non-BE heritage(FSU,Clemson,GaTech,UVA etc)

(03-25-2013 10:55 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  "Most knowledgeable people believe that realignment will continue... poach all of the ACC teams.

...Hopefully we will find out sooner rather than later.

Here's the problem with that highlighted statement. If the ACC is destroyed in the short term, that WOULD prove that the anti-ACC crowd was correct. However, if the ACC continues to battle & survive for the next 10 years, in the eyes of many that STILL will not prove that the pro-ACC folks were correct (they'll just say it needs more time).

It's always fundamentally harder to prove that something is NOT going to happen, because theoretically you have to wait forever to prove it. But that doesn't mean it isn't true.

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 07:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that realignment will be as extensive as most or many people do.

I think that ND will either join the ACC in full (before or after realignment) or stay affiliated with the ACC after realignment is done.

I think that 4x16 and those conferences breaking off from the NCAA is a pipe dream and will not happen.

I think that the alliance of ND, Texas, the ACC and ESPN will stop or limit conference realignment.

Either way, I think that there will always be room for an independent ND in any post-realignment universe. I don't think that ND will be forced to join a conference or be "left behind".

But, what the hell do I know? I am just scratching my ass and guessing, just like everyone else on realignment message boards.

Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

As great as that would be from a ratings standpoint for the Big12, I just don’t see that happening. Much of this thread implies a future around an FBS or follow-on league with 60 -80 or so members. I think this is a false assumption. As a result so is the assumption that these realignment actions will force another school to take any particular specific action.
Couple of thoughts about power conferences in general:
Currently we have about 35 bowl games in FBS requiring 70 teams. Previous posters have pointed out that the math requires a significant number of teams to eliminate enough sub-performers in any given season to get the remaining 70 teams. If you use a reasonable ratio of say 60% make it to a bowl that gets you into to the 115-120 team number (Note: FBS had 120 teams in 2012). Never mind the every changing demography that drives increased enrolment and resources to schools in the southwest such as UTEP, SDSU makes the likelihood of more large schools NOT less a likely scenario.

(03-25-2013 11:19 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

Swarbick and the ACC and ESPN lived by the sword of poaching from the BE

Now it will be their turn.
Obviously Maryland has left the ACC

Some ACC schools seek a better environment in terms of dollars,being with other great football schools or being in a superior academic environment.

The ACC will not die it will become the new BE.

Those for the most part who want to leave the ACC come from non-BE heritage(FSU,Clemson,GaTech,UVA etc)

The ACC is the superior academic environment.

(03-25-2013 11:19 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

Swarbick and the ACC and ESPN lived by the sword of poaching from the BE

Now it will be their turn.
Obviously Maryland has left the ACC

Some ACC schools seek a better environment in terms of dollars,being with other great football schools or being in a superior academic environment.

The ACC will not die it will become the new BE.

Those for the most part who want to leave the ACC come from non-BE heritage(FSU,Clemson,GaTech,UVA etc)

I think this is more of what you want to see as opposed to what will actually happen. You and many other UCONN fans will relish with delight if the ACC is gutted. I think your desire to see other schools hurt in order to satisfy your own greed for your schools is disgusting.

(03-25-2013 11:19 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

Swarbick and the ACC and ESPN lived by the sword of poaching from the BE

Now it will be their turn.
Obviously Maryland has left the ACC

Some ACC schools seek a better environment in terms of dollars,being with other great football schools or being in a superior academic environment.

The ACC will not die it will become the new BE.

Those for the most part who want to leave the ACC come from non-BE heritage(FSU,Clemson,GaTech,UVA etc)

I am not sure how Jack Swarbrick "lived by the sword of poaching from the BE".

(03-25-2013 11:21 AM)Football Junky Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:07 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Terry, you avoided the question. You admit you are in the minority on the realignment issue and we know what you think or hope will happen.

So assuming the majority are correct and realignment continues with the poaching of the ACC and as a result Notre Dame has to join a conference......the question is, which conference will they want to join?.

BTW I stand by my original statement, (that some of you Notre Damer's took exception to) that "IF" Notre Dame ever joins a conference it wil be the Big 10..... because in that event I believe their only choices will be The BIG, SEC, Big12 or PAC.

I didn't avoid the question. I said that ND will either remain an independent affiliated with the ACC or will join the ACC as a full member.

I think that will be the case no matter what happens with expansion.

I believe that ND made its choice, twice. The first time last September when it announced it was moving to the ACC and again a couple of weeks ago when it announced it was moving there this coming July.

I think that those were pretty clear indications of ND's long term intentions.

Now, if you are limiting ND's only choices to the Big 12, the Big Ten, the SEC or the Pac 12, then my best guess is that the Irish will team up with its buddy, Texas.

The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

As great as that would be from a ratings standpoint for the Big12, I just don’t see that happening. Much of this thread implies a future around an FBS or follow-on league with 60 -80 or so members. I think this is a false assumption. As a result so is the assumption that these realignment actions will force another school to take any particular specific action.
Couple of thoughts about power conferences in general:
Currently we have about 35 bowl games in FBS requiring 70 teams. Previous posters have pointed out that the math requires a significant number of teams to eliminate enough sub-performers in any given season to get the remaining 70 teams. If you use a reasonable ratio of say 60% make it to a bowl that gets you into to the 115-120 team number (Note: FBS had 120 teams in 2012). Never mind the every changing demography that drives increased enrolment and resources to schools in the southwest such as UTEP, SDSU makes the likelihood of more large schools NOT less a likely scenario.

What you say has truth in it. It has logic behind it. But your false assumption is that this is being done for the sake of college football elites. It most certainly is not. The desire of the BCS and the playoff it will morph into is to achieve better post season ratings by having teams from large alumni bases with national appeal playing in a format manipulated to boost ratings from the East coast to the West and from the North to the South. It has noting to do with football.

Conference realignment has nothing to little to do with football either. It has been, is, and will continue to be about the takeover of schools as sports property for the networks. Any assumption that it is about anything else will simply be a flawed assumption.

The only reason that schools are willing to listen now, and that realignment is happening now, is because we are in some kind of economic distress best defined as a protracted recession but not quite a depression, but God forbid we actually name it because some political party or corporate interest group would have to deal with it as a reality then and it might panic the public.

It is the intersection of declining state revenue streams that are causing deep state cuts for the funding of higher education coupled with the lure of television revenue promised in some cases for a decade and a half that are driving realignment and the timing is no accident. One of the oldest ploys in a hostile takeover is to make your offers during times of your object of desire's lowest liquidity. And that's now.

60 - 70 teams are what the Networks want. No patsies are what the Networks want. No play out of an upper division is what the Networks want. They want the best product, with none of the slow sku's to stock their lineup with. They want every game every week to have a high national interest. They want brand name against brand name and they want an upper tier so that a Boise State, or Utah, or Hawaii can't crash the party and spoil the ratings.

This is not about Slive, Delany, Swafford, Scott, or Bowlsby. It is about those gentlemen grasping for the dollars being dangled by a network. And by the way, the total dollars paid to an upper tier aren't coming out of thin air. They will be from the money that the Networks will no longer have to pay the smaller schools. The rich will get richer and it will be from the pile that once fed everyone.

That's corporate America at work. Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, U.S.C., Oregon, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida State are all now among the banks that will become too big to fail.

Downsizing is coming to education in this country from the grade schools to the Universities. Many states have already started cutting the funding. Realignment is about setting aside those to be protected on the education side of things, and about culling down to the most watched and identified with products for the networks. It is most assuredly not about quality of sports, variety of sports, or even about sports. It is simply about revenue and survival.

It is not about SEC, Big 10, ACC, Big 12, or PAC. It is about protecting them because they control the most eyeballs on Saturday and that's it.

(03-25-2013 12:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 12:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:21 AM)Football Junky Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 10:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  The question was based on the premis, that as most seem to believe, the ACC will be poached and no longer a power conference.

So your answer is, you think the Irish would join the Big12.
That is interesting. Thanks.

No, you misunderstand my answer or I misunderstood your question.

My answer to the question as illustrated by the highlighted portion of your post (a weakened but not destroyed ACC) is that ND will remain an independent and be affiliated with the ACC.

If the ACC is totally destroyed, gonzo.....out of existence entirely...then my opinion is that ND will team up with Texas as a counterweight to an expanded Big Ten.

As great as that would be from a ratings standpoint for the Big12, I just don’t see that happening. Much of this thread implies a future around an FBS or follow-on league with 60 -80 or so members. I think this is a false assumption. As a result so is the assumption that these realignment actions will force another school to take any particular specific action.
Couple of thoughts about power conferences in general:
Currently we have about 35 bowl games in FBS requiring 70 teams. Previous posters have pointed out that the math requires a significant number of teams to eliminate enough sub-performers in any given season to get the remaining 70 teams. If you use a reasonable ratio of say 60% make it to a bowl that gets you into to the 115-120 team number (Note: FBS had 120 teams in 2012). Never mind the every changing demography that drives increased enrolment and resources to schools in the southwest such as UTEP, SDSU makes the likelihood of more large schools NOT less a likely scenario.

What you say has truth in it. It has logic behind it. But your false assumption is that this is being done for the sake of college football elites. It most certainly is not. The desire of the BCS and the playoff it will morph into is to achieve better post season ratings by having teams from large alumni bases with national appeal playing in a format manipulated to boost ratings from the East coast to the West and from the North to the South. It has noting to do with football.

Conference realignment has nothing to little to do with football either. It has been, is, and will continue to be about the takeover of schools as sports property for the networks. Any assumption that it is about anything else will simply be a flawed assumption.

The only reason that schools are willing to listen now, and that realignment is happening now, is because we are in some kind of economic distress best defined as a protracted recession but not quite a depression, but God forbid we actually name it because some political party or corporate interest group would have to deal with it as a reality then and it might panic the public.

It is the intersection of declining state revenue streams that are causing deep state cuts for the funding of higher education coupled with the lure of television revenue promised in some cases for a decade and a half that are driving realignment and the timing is no accident. One of the oldest ploys in a hostile takeover is to make your offers during times of your object of desire's lowest liquidity. And that's now.

60 - 70 teams are what the Networks want. No patsies are what the Networks want. No play out of an upper division is what the Networks want. They want the best product, with none of the slow sku's to stock their lineup with. They want every game every week to have a high national interest. They want brand name against brand name and they want an upper tier so that a Boise State, or Utah, or Hawaii can't crash the party and spoil the ratings.

This is not about Slive, Delany, Swafford, Scott, or Bowlsby. It is about those gentlemen grasping for the dollars being dangled by a network. And by the way, the total dollars paid to an upper tier aren't coming out of thin air. They will be from the money that the Networks will no longer have to pay the smaller schools. The rich will get richer and it will be from the pile that once fed everyone.

That's corporate America at work. Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, U.S.C., Oregon, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida State are all now among the banks that will become too big to fail.

Downsizing is coming to education in this country from the grade schools to the Universities. Many states have already started cutting the funding. Realignment is about setting aside those to be protected on the education side of things, and about culling down to the most watched and identified with products for the networks. It is most assuredly not about quality of sports, variety of sports, or even about sports. It is simply about revenue and survival.

It is not about SEC, Big 10, ACC, Big 12, or PAC. It is about protecting them because they control the most eyeballs on Saturday and that's it.

I can see your logic, and I think the networks are going to do use a model that has been wildly successful over the past 10+ years - make it look like the NFL. And as you point out it will end up improving the quality of the product on the field. But...it will become NFL lite in the end. Even if all realignment stops today, and all the current teams are frozen in place and the power 5 are the "rich" - if the split materializes like people think it will then the networks are going to ruin it in the end.

A lot of us are already tuning out more and more. I'm pretty much down to watching only one sport on TV now - football. All other sports have been cut out of my life. Didn't bother to watch the NCAAs this year at all. Had no interest in it anymore. I used to, but there are too many other things going on in my life to bother. It's probably just a matter of time until I stop watching football and then all pro and college sports are out of my life. Anyone else professing similar views will have my respect.

I've about had it with colleges trying to play the game of semi-pro sports franchises. The tail is wagging the dog more than I care to see it. Frankly, I'd rather here news that Pitt's academic standing in the world goes up by 20 spots than to see Pitt win championships. Seriously, who cares in the end anyways? I was there when the Steelers won their 5th super bowl - hanging on almost every game throughout that season. Guess what? After they won it all, I still had the same amount of bills to pay. I still had the same projects due at work. I still had the same amount of money in my 401k, bank accounts, IRA's, etc... Nothing changed. But I made an investment of time following it all. What did I get for that investment? Ha! A few moments of happiness that soon faded into...nothing.

College sports used to be about the rivalries, the tradition, the sense that these are amateurs who are there playing for their school pride - not for payoffs. Yes, we all knew that it hasn't been this way for quite some time. But you know, the veneer is coming off. What is happening today is that the intentional ignorance we clung to about college athletics is being stripped away. Speaking for myself, it's resulting in my fandom being slowly stripped away too.

I play the game on this forum from time to time. Many of you know what I'm all about, and many of you simply do not get me and you never will. But at the end of the day, whatever happens to Pitt athletics has no bearing on my life. It does not change one iota of my existence in any way. I love my school and I root for it daily. But I care most about what my school does to better itself as a degree granting institution, what does it do in the greater Pittsburgh area and how does Pitt make life better for it's students and everyone associated with it. I root for that. The athletics I truly care about for Pitt now are swimming, track and field, baseball, wrestiling, the sports that do not matter. Because the students who compete in those sports aren't doing it for the big payday. They are doing it because they want to compete and they want the opportunity to get the education. That's what I root for. Football and Basketball? Sure, I still root for it, but I don't care if they really win or lose. Because the truth is that both sports have become a farce, and they really don't reflect the universities anymore. They're mere franchises. I only care about how many times Pitt athletics are shown on TV because that is advertising for the school. Otherwise, I don't care...

Now you guys should know who I am and what I am all about.

I'm right there with you Miko. I wasn't saying that what is happening is good, or even something of which I am in favor. I was just trying to throw the cold wet rag of reality into the face of all of those who maintain the delusion that this is remotely about sports, their conference, or anything but fear and money. It is going to surely ruin college football, just as surely as the same mentality has killed the joy of independent business and its greed has killed the middle class.