(03-05-2013 11:25 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Beercat - where they going to play downtown? US Bank is no Yum Center. If we are going to rehab an older arena, I say 5th / 3rd receive our rehab money. UC is already THE bball team in Cincy, so moving downtown is not going to change this.

Putting the Yum Center in perspective - they are prob in the top 3% of college arenas out there. They are prob equal to an NBA arena.

I was impressed with what I saw on TV of the Yum Center, Louisville is cannibalizing their own arena though. Here is an article from January about the Yum Center.

Quote:Louisvillian says Yum! Center losing $1 million a month and needs a new lease to survive
01/31/2013 12:20 PM
by Ryan Alessi • 1 Comments • Filed under: At the Courthouse Square
The KFC Yum! Center’s debt and “unprecedented” lease with the University of Louisville are causing the arena to lose about $1 million per month and putting it at risk of default, according to a 38-page report written by Louisville resident Denis Frankenberger.

Frankenberger, in conjunction with the Bluegrass Institute for Public Policy Solutions, told reporters in Louisville Thursday that the arena’s lease with the University of Louisville is the “primary problem.” He said it gives it too much power to the university. Plus, he said UofL, the Louisville Arena Authority and several private companies are costing the arena $825,000 by getting free use of suites.

Frankenberger, a Louisville-based developer, said he began looking into the finances of the Yum! Center on his own after reading that Moody’s Investor Services downgraded the bond rating for the arena to junk status last year.



University of Louisville President James Ramsey told Pure Politics earlier this month that the university was obligated to negotiate the best deal possible with the arena and feels no pressure to renegotiate it. The university has the right of first refusal to take over the arena if it does default on its construction bond payments.

The report, which Frankenberger published on his site billiondollarbasketball.com, also outlines how the Louisville Arena Authority is only managing to cover the interest on the construction bonds much like a homeowner who is only paying the interest on his mortgage.

In addition, Frankenberger said the arena more than doubled its expected operational costs in 2011. They had budgeted for $5.875 million and spent $12.124 million, he said. However, the arena switched management companies earlier this year, which Ramsey said has helped keep costs down.

(03-05-2013 11:25 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Beercat - where they going to play downtown? US Bank is no Yum Center. If we are going to rehab an older arena, I say 5th / 3rd receive our rehab money. UC is already THE bball team in Cincy, so moving downtown is not going to change this.

Putting the Yum Center in perspective - they are prob in the top 3% of college arenas out there. They are prob equal to an NBA arena.

I'll go so far as to say it's the finest arena in the country right now for college basketball. I also believe it's more of a pro sports atmosphere and they lose the college basketball feeling you have at an Indiana, a Kansas, Duke or potentially in the good times at UC. Part of what is making UC a destination campus is the on-campus football and basketball atmosphere. For all their fine sports facilities, the U of L campus and college neighborhood aren't even close to what UC has. U of L students can make memories by boarding the buses to basketball games as UC students had to do pre-5th/3rd.

(03-05-2013 11:40 AM)indycat Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 11:25 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Beercat - where they going to play downtown? US Bank is no Yum Center. If we are going to rehab an older arena, I say 5th / 3rd receive our rehab money. UC is already THE bball team in Cincy, so moving downtown is not going to change this.

Putting the Yum Center in perspective - they are prob in the top 3% of college arenas out there. They are prob equal to an NBA arena.

I'll go so far as to say it's the finest arena in the country right now for college basketball. I also believe it's more of a pro sports atmosphere and they lose the college basketball feeling you have at an Indiana, a Kansas, Duke or potentially in the good times at UC. Part of what is making UC a destination campus is the on-campus football and basketball atmosphere. For all their fine sports facilities, the U of L campus and college neighborhood aren't even close to what UC has. U of L students can make memories by boarding the buses to basketball games as UC students had to do pre-5th/3rd.

I completely agree and will go one step further - the neighborhoods surrounding UC are alot better than they used to be. Calhoun/Mcmicken are looking great. I always loved my old dive bars, however the area will be attractive for incoming students.

College basketball should be on a college campus if at all possible. The Yum Center is very nice but I'll take Hinkle, Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor. New isn't everything. History and tradition trump new for me any day of the week.

(03-05-2013 08:46 AM)ctipton Wrote:  I NEVER want to move downtown. The value of an on campus arena goes without saying. Same with football stadium. We are already THE basketball team in Cincinnati, but the NBE is trying to take that away. Moving downtown will do nothing to help along those lines.

If we had one player (Yancey Gates type who could play both offense and defense) this would have been a dog fight. That is how bad it is playing offense 3 on 5. Louisville is not light years ahead of us, but they damn sure have better big men.

The Bearcats are UC's team. I believe tons of fans would be attracted if the games were played downtown because of the surrounding bars and casino. Football is completely different because of tailgating, that is the experience for casual fans. Casual fans are heading to Clifton to hang out at bars up there. I'm talking about expanding the fanbase of non alumni/non hardcore Bearcat fans.

And yes, they are light years ahead of UC talent wise. There is not one spot on UC's team that is better than UL's. 1-5 and bench, they had us beat at every spot.

(03-05-2013 12:09 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  College basketball should be on a college campus if at all possible. The Yum Center is very nice but I'll take Hinkle, Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor. New isn't everything. History and tradition trump new for me any day of the week.

I would move downtown for a few years and try to drum up some buzz. UC has the chance to take advantage of the growth downtown and expand the fanbase. Comparing 53 to those places is stupid. Hinkle, as in the "Hoosiers", Allen Fieldhouse, as in the birthplace of basketball, and Cameron Indoor, arguably the toughest place on the planet to play and with a huge, rabid fanbase.

What I'm saying is that UC needs to grow the fanbase big time, downtown, with all that is going on is the place to do it. Slowly fix up 53 and return when it and the program are ready.

(03-05-2013 11:25 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Beercat - where they going to play downtown? US Bank is no Yum Center. If we are going to rehab an older arena, I say 5th / 3rd receive our rehab money. UC is already THE bball team in Cincy, so moving downtown is not going to change this.

Putting the Yum Center in perspective - they are prob in the top 3% of college arenas out there. They are prob equal to an NBA arena.

Considering the YUM Center was actually built to attract an NBA team that ended up never materializing I would have to agree with you.

I know I've mentioned it before, but I think it bears repeating. Read that article about YUM closely...UL has right of first refusal should the arena default on the bonds.

Think about it...UL controls programming. They can stick a slew of non revenue sports in that arena, pretty much ensuring that arena remains unprofitable. And when the arena defaults, UL gets a beautiful arena on the cheap.

I'd have to think that in the unlikely event YUM does default, there would be bondholder lawsuits out the wazoo, though they have only themselves to blame for buying into that mess of a conflict of interest.

(03-05-2013 03:44 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  What I'm saying is that UC needs to grow the fanbase big time, downtown, with all that is going on is the place to do it. Slowly fix up 53 and return when it and the program are ready.

What makes you think downtown will have anything going on a few years from now? Downtown Toledo was "happening" for a while, now it is dead. Same for the flats in Cleveland. If there is not a future riot downtown, it will likely die from city council screwing it up.

(03-05-2013 04:40 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 03:44 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  What I'm saying is that UC needs to grow the fanbase big time, downtown, with all that is going on is the place to do it. Slowly fix up 53 and return when it and the program are ready.

What makes you think downtown will have anything going on a few years from now? Downtown Toledo was "happening" for a while, now it is dead. Same for the flats in Cleveland. If there is not a future riot downtown, it will likely die from city council screwing it up.

Even they can't screw it up. Downtown is in really good shape. 3cdc has OTR very much moving in the right direction. Older office buildings are being converted to residential. But UC is going to play at 5/3rd.

(03-05-2013 04:40 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What makes you think downtown will have anything going on a few years from now? Downtown Toledo was "happening" for a while, now it is dead. Same for the flats in Cleveland. If there is not a future riot downtown, it will likely die from city council screwing it up.

(03-05-2013 03:44 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 12:09 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  College basketball should be on a college campus if at all possible. The Yum Center is very nice but I'll take Hinkle, Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor. New isn't everything. History and tradition trump new for me any day of the week.

I would move downtown for a few years and try to drum up some buzz. UC has the chance to take advantage of the growth downtown and expand the fanbase. Comparing 53 to those places is stupid. Hinkle, as in the "Hoosiers", Allen Fieldhouse, as in the birthplace of basketball, and Cameron Indoor, arguably the toughest place on the planet to play and with a huge, rabid fanbase.

What I'm saying is that UC needs to grow the fanbase big time, downtown, with all that is going on is the place to do it. Slowly fix up 53 and return when it and the program are ready.

I would pose the question once again - comparing US Bank to the Yum Center is not very intelligent. Sure, there is alot to do downtown. I love it down there. However, most just drive in for the game and leave immediately afterwards.

Clifton is also in the process of building an entertainment district off Calhoun/Mcmicken. Whit has said his priority is keeping everything on campus. It allows the University to show itself off, especially to potential students and opposing fans. Also, they want to take care of the restuarants/bars in UC's neighborhood.

(03-05-2013 05:49 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 03:44 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 12:09 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  College basketball should be on a college campus if at all possible. The Yum Center is very nice but I'll take Hinkle, Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor. New isn't everything. History and tradition trump new for me any day of the week.

I would move downtown for a few years and try to drum up some buzz. UC has the chance to take advantage of the growth downtown and expand the fanbase. Comparing 53 to those places is stupid. Hinkle, as in the "Hoosiers", Allen Fieldhouse, as in the birthplace of basketball, and Cameron Indoor, arguably the toughest place on the planet to play and with a huge, rabid fanbase.

What I'm saying is that UC needs to grow the fanbase big time, downtown, with all that is going on is the place to do it. Slowly fix up 53 and return when it and the program are ready.

I would pose the question once again - comparing US Bank to the Yum Center is not very intelligent. Sure, there is alot to do downtown. I love it down there. However, most just drive in for the game and leave immediately afterwards.

Clifton is also in the process of building an entertainment district off Calhoun/Mcmicken. Whit has said his priority is keeping everything on campus. It allows the University to show itself off, especially to potential students and opposing fans. Also, they want to take care of the restuarants/bars in UC's neighborhood.

I'm not comparing US Bank Arena to the Yum Center, no comparison. I was just making the point that Cincy cannot win recruiting battles against UL as it stands now. My point was simply that major work needs to be done on UC's arena, which everyone already knew. Separately, I'm saying moving downtown would be very beneficial to growing UC's fanbase IMO.

(03-05-2013 06:08 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 05:49 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 03:44 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 12:09 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  College basketball should be on a college campus if at all possible. The Yum Center is very nice but I'll take Hinkle, Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor. New isn't everything. History and tradition trump new for me any day of the week.

I would move downtown for a few years and try to drum up some buzz. UC has the chance to take advantage of the growth downtown and expand the fanbase. Comparing 53 to those places is stupid. Hinkle, as in the "Hoosiers", Allen Fieldhouse, as in the birthplace of basketball, and Cameron Indoor, arguably the toughest place on the planet to play and with a huge, rabid fanbase.

What I'm saying is that UC needs to grow the fanbase big time, downtown, with all that is going on is the place to do it. Slowly fix up 53 and return when it and the program are ready.

I would pose the question once again - comparing US Bank to the Yum Center is not very intelligent. Sure, there is alot to do downtown. I love it down there. However, most just drive in for the game and leave immediately afterwards.

Clifton is also in the process of building an entertainment district off Calhoun/Mcmicken. Whit has said his priority is keeping everything on campus. It allows the University to show itself off, especially to potential students and opposing fans. Also, they want to take care of the restuarants/bars in UC's neighborhood.

I'm not comparing US Bank Arena to the Yum Center, no comparison. I was just making the point that Cincy cannot win recruiting battles against UL as it stands now. My point was simply that major work needs to be done on UC's arena, which everyone already knew. Separately, I'm saying moving downtown would be very beneficial to growing UC's fanbase IMO.

There are multiple reasons a school wins recruiting battles. Sure, the arena is a factor, but not the only one. Memphis, despite FedEx arena hasn't been blowing them away with recruiting since Calipari left, and Duke gets recruits while playing in a high school gym.

What is wrong with you people?

There is no argument. Our arena should be on campus.

A majority of basketball games are played during the week. A large portion of attendees are husbands and wives, plus families. These folks want to go to the game & then go home. Maybe dinner before if there is time.

After the game, the college kids want to get drunk and walk back to their dorms and houses. They don't want to ride downtown, pay super high prices for booze, then have to ride back uptown.

F*** 3CDC.

(03-05-2013 08:02 AM)JPBearcat3 Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 07:45 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  Went to the game last night, first thing, that arena is absolutely insane. I do not expect UC to win ANY recruiting battle against UL ever. This is obvious, but 53 needs to be redone 5 years ago.

I'll second this. If you're a 16, 17, 18 year old high schooler and you see a game at both UL and UC, you'd be absolutely nuts not to pick UL every time and twice on Sunday. I used to dislike Behanan; now, I can't blame him.

Everything from the lights, sounds, and the overall experience was a million times better than anything I've seen at UC in the past 10 years. The in-game promotions were well done. If anything, I hope our marketing folks picked up a tip or two on how to better engage fans during media timeouts. Sure, it's easier to interact in that brand new, state-of-the-art arena, but there were things we could pull off in 5/3 with the right planning.

I think UC has it right to remain on campus. When I arrived on campus as a UC freshman in 1978, we played at US Bank arena (Riverfront Colliseum at the time). Students had to take a bus to the arena and wait an hour in the cold to return. How many students will do that now? Not many. Secondly, playing on campus is a great, great thing, something that eventually Louisville will struggle with and may be struggling with now. Sure they have a flashy arena and it looks good, but eventually the arena organization will raise prices for rent to the university, rent to someone else like an NBA team and use it for a number of other reasons. UL could be left out in the cold if a disagreement arises. UC does not have any of those concerns. Finally, the basketball player must like the on campus situation better. How better does it get to walk to the practice facility and walk to the arena on campus rather than take a bus to the downtown flashy arena. Many student athletes like the proximity of different things on the UC campus such as the fields or arena and classes. It's very nice. UC is going in the right direction. Personally, if we are going to spend 50 million to remodel, why not just spend 120 million, tear down Shoemaker and the adjoining buildings (Fieldhouse) and build a nice new flashy arena. We can do it, we can raise the money.

(03-05-2013 10:15 PM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  What is wrong with you people?

There is no argument. Our arena should be on campus.

A majority of basketball games are played during the week. A large portion of attendees are husbands and wives, plus families. These folks want to go to the game & then go home. Maybe dinner before if there is time.

After the game, the college kids want to get drunk and walk back to their dorms and houses. They don't want to ride downtown, pay super high prices for booze, then have to ride back uptown.

F*** 3CDC.

This 100 percent. Playing downtown in the mid 80s sucked. Students did not go to the games at alll. An argument could be made that the direct turn around of the Bearcat basketball program was the on campus gym built in 1990.

Agree. Keep the basketball games on campus.

I think it's difficult for folks here to understand what I am saying. It's about growing the fanbase. I don't expect people who post on a message about their team to want the games played downtown. I'm talking about attracting casual fans that are more looking for something to do than to live and die with every possession. That's why I think moving downtown would be good.

(03-06-2013 07:29 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I think UC has it right to remain on campus. When I arrived on campus as a UC freshman in 1978, we played at US Bank arena (Riverfront Colliseum at the time). Students had to take a bus to the arena and wait an hour in the cold to return. How many students will do that now? Not many. Secondly, playing on campus is a great, great thing, something that eventually Louisville will struggle with and may be struggling with now. Sure they have a flashy arena and it looks good, but eventually the arena organization will raise prices for rent to the university, rent to someone else like an NBA team and use it for a number of other reasons. UL could be left out in the cold if a disagreement arises. UC does not have any of those concerns. Finally, the basketball player must like the on campus situation better. How better does it get to walk to the practice facility and walk to the arena on campus rather than take a bus to the downtown flashy arena. Many student athletes like the proximity of different things on the UC campus such as the fields or arena and classes. It's very nice. UC is going in the right direction. Personally, if we are going to spend 50 million to remodel, why not just spend 120 million, tear down Shoemaker and the adjoining buildings (Fieldhouse) and build a nice new flashy arena. We can do it, we can raise the money.

Excellent post. The younger guys on here don't appreciate the pain in the arse it was to travel down to Riverfront Coliseum/Staduim. It would be nice to tear down some of the surrounding buildings, but what would it entail? Is the Armory another one of those protected, historical deals? Hope not.