There's a key difference in ratings between NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, and team sports like basketball, football, baseball, hockey and soccer.

Every single one of those fans who watch are all seeing their favorite driver/golfer in ONE BROADCAST; where as the basketball game that's on might be two teams a fan doen't care about.

(01-11-2013 01:06 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  There's a key difference in ratings between NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, and team sports like basketball, football, baseball, hockey and soccer.

Every single one of those fans who watch are all seeing their favorite driver/golfer in ONE BROADCAST; where as the basketball game that's on might be two teams a fan doen't care about.

Definitely true for Nascar and F1. Frankly, that's the secret of their TV success. Only true for golf during the majors, the WGC events, the Players, and now the FedEx cup. Not true for most PGA events. Not true for any individual tennis match.

http://ajerseyguy.com/

Do you guys think, if UConn and UC are added, that Xavier would not be given an invite, in favor of Cincinnati?

(01-11-2013 05:29 PM)bmorex Wrote:  http://ajerseyguy.com/

Do you guys think, if UConn and UC are added, that Xavier would not be given an invite, in favor of Cincinnati?

First of all, I don't believe that the Jersey Guy/Sporting News thing is happening.

But if it is, Xavier is still in.

We used to have a saying before the Big East split.

"We were here before you got here, and we'll be here after you're gone."

Xavier wasn't here when Cincinnati got here, but Xavier will still be here when Cincinnati is gone. If UC wants to cockblock XAvier, they can go play in the MAC.

One BILLION DOLLAR exit fee, IMO.



------
In all seriousness, no that football thing doesn't work.

(01-11-2013 05:29 PM)bmorex Wrote:  http://ajerseyguy.com/

Do you guys think, if UConn and UC are added, that Xavier would not be given an invite, in favor of Cincinnati?

No, they get an invite and Dayton gets bumped. We will protect ourselves from them splitting. They are asking us to join so they enter under our conditions.

No thanks. The c7 need to cut all conference ties with football. OOC schedule would be great. I'd even favor an association where the c7 and the Fb group share sports that neither can support on their own but not this. Why would UConn and cincy want this for their Fb programs?

(01-11-2013 05:49 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Why would UConn and cincy want this for their Fb programs?

Exactly. Once you take a hit of that football revenue pipe, you're never going back. You might get clean for a year or two, but first chance you get you'll be back on the corner shopping yourself to the Pac-12 or any other daddy promising you a free taste.

Quote:Of the eight football-playing members in the Big East, only one -- Louisville -- saw more revenue from basketball than football. The Cardinals brought in $25.8 million in basketball, compared to $15.5 million in football. Syracuse football generated $19.2 million, compared to $18.3 million for its basketball team. They were the only two league schools to make a $10 million or more profit off men's basketball.

The disparity was much greater elsewhere in the league. Rutgers made $19.5 million in revenue in football and only $4.6 million in basketball. West Virginia earned $29.5 million in football revenue to $13.3 million for its Final Four basketball squad. Pitt was at $22.5 million for football and $13.1 million for basketball. Connecticut football nearly doubled its men's basketball counterpart ($14.4 million to $7.8 million), Cincinnati football nearly tripled the revenue of Bearcats hoops ($13.3 million to $4.9 million) and South Florida almost quadrupled the pigskin-to-roundball revenue ($16.6 million to $4.6 million).

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/i...l-revenues

(01-11-2013 05:36 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 05:29 PM)bmorex Wrote:  http://ajerseyguy.com/

Do you guys think, if UConn and UC are added, that Xavier would not be given an invite, in favor of Cincinnati?

No, they get an invite and Dayton gets bumped. We will protect ourselves from them splitting. They are asking us to join so they enter under our conditions.

Adding Cincy and UConn would be a short term plus for the new league, no question. But there is a 0% chance that those schools stick around for more than a couple of years.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Dayton and SLU are the backup 11th and 12th teams (just a wild guess- could easily be VCU or my Bluejays). Invite them now and you can sell the world on a strong and stable league. Invite them in two years after being spurned by Cincy and UConn for football related reasons and suddenly the narrative becomes that the Big East has been weakened again and the Conference is now made up of second choice, second-tier schools that weren't good enough to get an invite the first time around.

Is one or two years worth of Cincy and UConn worth the brand damage that those schools leaving will cause the new Conference?

Seems to me like the only plausible reason to "rent" UConn and Cincy for a year or two is to get their allegiance in the winding down of the current Big East. But that's an awful big price to pay.

I understand that VCU, SLU, Creighton and Dayton fans are wetting their collective pants at the thought of Cincy and UConn, but Blaudschun's theory is interesting for one reason:

Cincy and UConn obviously want to get in on the BCS cash grab -- who wouldn't? -- but none of the BCS leagues want them. If they did, they'd already be gone. With all of the realignment that's already happened, for nobody to scoop them up by now is a pretty strong F U.

They're not going to get a big-money TV deal for football at this point. Whether they stick with the USF/UCF crowd or go MAC/CUSA/MWC, they're getting no better than mid-major dollars.

So who could blame Cincy and UConn for trying to supplement those dollars and protect their basketball programs?

EAST: G'town, SJU, SHU, Nova, UConn, PC
WEST: Cincy, X, Butler, MU, DePaul, Creighton

Pretty darn strong basketball league right there.

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  I understand that VCU, SLU, Creighton and Dayton fans are wetting their collective pants at the thought of Cincy and UConn, but Blaudschun's theory is interesting for one reason:

Cincy and UConn obviously want to get in on the BCS cash grab -- who wouldn't? -- but none of the BCS leagues want them. If they did, they'd already be gone. With all of the realignment that's already happened, for nobody to scoop them up by now is a pretty strong F U.

They're not going to get a big-money TV deal for football at this point. Whether they stick with the USF/UCF crowd or go MAC/CUSA/MWC, they're getting no better than mid-major dollars.

So who could blame Cincy and UConn for trying to supplement those dollars and protect their basketball programs?

EAST: G'town, SJU, SHU, Nova, UConn, PC
WEST: Cincy, X, Butler, MU, DePaul, Creighton

Pretty darn strong basketball league right there.

Why wouldn't the same "you're not worth $5 million per school, but we're desperately needing properties" principle from Fox apply to the Big East football group as well?

I think Fox is hot to trot on C7 hoops because it's a higher priority:
There's A LOT more inventory (game dates) that basketball fills compared to football.

But don't you think the next item on their agenda? BE FB because what properties do they own? What other Saturday programming do they have in the fall?

(01-11-2013 08:30 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  I understand that VCU, SLU, Creighton and Dayton fans are wetting their collective pants at the thought of Cincy and UConn, but Blaudschun's theory is interesting for one reason:

Cincy and UConn obviously want to get in on the BCS cash grab -- who wouldn't? -- but none of the BCS leagues want them. If they did, they'd already be gone. With all of the realignment that's already happened, for nobody to scoop them up by now is a pretty strong F U.

They're not going to get a big-money TV deal for football at this point. Whether they stick with the USF/UCF crowd or go MAC/CUSA/MWC, they're getting no better than mid-major dollars.

So who could blame Cincy and UConn for trying to supplement those dollars and protect their basketball programs?

EAST: G'town, SJU, SHU, Nova, UConn, PC
WEST: Cincy, X, Butler, MU, DePaul, Creighton

Pretty darn strong basketball league right there.

Why wouldn't the same "you're not worth $5 million per school, but we're desperately needing properties" principle from Fox apply to the Big East football group as well?

I think Fox is hot to trot on C7 hoops because it's a higher priority:
There's A LOT more inventory (game dates) that basketball fills compared to football.

But don't you think the next item on their agenda? BE FB because what properties do they own? What other Saturday programming do they have in the fall?

FOX will need programming, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to overpay for it.

Now that Boise has bailed, who (other than Cincy and UConn) among the BE football programs has enough national Q rating to drive another network into a bidding war with Fox?

East Carolina? Temple? Memphis? Navy? USF? UCF?

Color me, uh, unimpressed.

It's basically the old CUSA with two former BE teams thrown in ... and CUSA's TV deal is not so great.

Especially if the C7 is able to purchase the Big East name and the football schools have to start from scratch under a brand-new league umbrella, there's no way Fox or anybody else is gonna give those schools $5 million annually per team.

Cincy and UConn conceivably could make more from hoops than football by sticking with the C7, plus X, Butler and Creighton.

(01-11-2013 08:30 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  I understand that VCU, SLU, Creighton and Dayton fans are wetting their collective pants at the thought of Cincy and UConn, but Blaudschun's theory is interesting for one reason:

Cincy and UConn obviously want to get in on the BCS cash grab -- who wouldn't? -- but none of the BCS leagues want them. If they did, they'd already be gone. With all of the realignment that's already happened, for nobody to scoop them up by now is a pretty strong F U.

They're not going to get a big-money TV deal for football at this point. Whether they stick with the USF/UCF crowd or go MAC/CUSA/MWC, they're getting no better than mid-major dollars.

So who could blame Cincy and UConn for trying to supplement those dollars and protect their basketball programs?

EAST: G'town, SJU, SHU, Nova, UConn, PC
WEST: Cincy, X, Butler, MU, DePaul, Creighton

Pretty darn strong basketball league right there.

Why wouldn't the same "you're not worth $5 million per school, but we're desperately needing properties" principle from Fox apply to the Big East football group as well?

I think Fox is hot to trot on C7 hoops because it's a higher priority:
There's A LOT more inventory (game dates) that basketball fills compared to football.

But don't you think the next item on their agenda? BE FB because what properties do they own? What other Saturday programming do they have in the fall?

22 PAC games, I think 30 Big 12 games, plus C-USA dreck. They have 1 games on Fox over-the-air, figure 3 Saturday games on FoxSports1, that's 4 x 13 = 52. If they want to keep a Big 12 Game-of-the-Week on the Fox Sports Nets in Big 12 country, they have shelf-space for another 14 games, but they're not desperate for it.

The Big East basketball conference, with 18 teams, had the most inventory, and the most QUALITY inventory of any conference in the country. As an A-10 guy, I've blatantly hated the Big East for decades, and even I can say it was the best basketball conference there was.

So the conference with the best quality and largest inventory for basketball got a TV deal that was 40% of the football contract, when the football contract featured the least amount of inventory and one of the worst products (at best, sixth among 11 conferences).

(01-11-2013 10:34 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  The Big East basketball conference, with 18 teams, had the most inventory, and the most QUALITY inventory of any conference in the country. As an A-10 guy, I've blatantly hated the Big East for decades, and even I can say it was the best basketball conference there was.

So the conference with the best quality and largest inventory for basketball got a TV deal that was 40% of the football contract, when the football contract featured the least amount of inventory and one of the worst products (at best, sixth among 11 conferences).

The Big East basketball contract was for $24M/year, split by 16 teams. The football contract was for $13.333M/year, split among 8 teams.

(01-11-2013 10:34 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  The Big East basketball conference, with 18 teams, had the most inventory, and the most QUALITY inventory of any conference in the country. As an A-10 guy, I've blatantly hated the Big East for decades, and even I can say it was the best basketball conference there was.

So the conference with the best quality and largest inventory for basketball got a TV deal that was 40% of the football contract, when the football contract featured the least amount of inventory and one of the worst products (at best, sixth among 11 conferences).

A lot has happened in 8 years. You can't make those connections anymore.

(01-11-2013 08:49 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  FOX will need programming, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to overpay for it.

Now that Boise has bailed, who (other than Cincy and UConn) among the BE football programs has enough national Q rating to drive another network into a bidding war with Fox?

East Carolina? Temple? Memphis? Navy? USF? UCF?

Color me, uh, unimpressed.

It's basically the old CUSA with two former BE teams thrown in ... and CUSA's TV deal is not so great.

ESPN has some holes to fill - they need inventory for Friday night and could place SMU and UH games on the LHN. Ugly.

(01-11-2013 10:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 10:34 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  The Big East basketball conference, with 18 teams, had the most inventory, and the most QUALITY inventory of any conference in the country. As an A-10 guy, I've blatantly hated the Big East for decades, and even I can say it was the best basketball conference there was.

So the conference with the best quality and largest inventory for basketball got a TV deal that was 40% of the football contract, when the football contract featured the least amount of inventory and one of the worst products (at best, sixth among 11 conferences).

The Big East basketball contract was for $24M/year, split by 16 teams. The football contract was for $13.333M/year, split among 8 teams.

Ah, I think the numbers I saw included the Big East's share of the BCS TV conference.

$3.17 million for football schools, $1.5 million for non-football schools... the best basketball TV inventory in the country was still making less than the medicore football product was delivering: $1.666 to $1.5.

(01-12-2013 01:26 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 10:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 10:34 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  The Big East basketball conference, with 18 teams, had the most inventory, and the most QUALITY inventory of any conference in the country. As an A-10 guy, I've blatantly hated the Big East for decades, and even I can say it was the best basketball conference there was.

So the conference with the best quality and largest inventory for basketball got a TV deal that was 40% of the football contract, when the football contract featured the least amount of inventory and one of the worst products (at best, sixth among 11 conferences).

The Big East basketball contract was for $24M/year, split by 16 teams. The football contract was for $13.333M/year, split among 8 teams.

Ah, I think the numbers I saw included the Big East's share of the BCS TV conference.

$3.17 million for football schools, $1.5 million for non-football schools... the best basketball TV inventory in the country was still making less than the medicore football product was delivering: $1.666 to $1.5.

That was 8 years ago. Different times. DVR is more prevalent and live content is more valuable. Also we were getting low balled because we were just raided. Our stock was very low at that time.

(01-12-2013 03:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-12-2013 01:26 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 10:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 10:34 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  The Big East basketball conference, with 18 teams, had the most inventory, and the most QUALITY inventory of any conference in the country. As an A-10 guy, I've blatantly hated the Big East for decades, and even I can say it was the best basketball conference there was.

So the conference with the best quality and largest inventory for basketball got a TV deal that was 40% of the football contract, when the football contract featured the least amount of inventory and one of the worst products (at best, sixth among 11 conferences).

The Big East basketball contract was for $24M/year, split by 16 teams. The football contract was for $13.333M/year, split among 8 teams.

Ah, I think the numbers I saw included the Big East's share of the BCS TV conference.

$3.17 million for football schools, $1.5 million for non-football schools... the best basketball TV inventory in the country was still making less than the medicore football product was delivering: $1.666 to $1.5.

That was 8 years ago. Different times. DVR is more prevalent and live content is more valuable. Also we were getting low balled because we were just raided. Our stock was very low at that time.

That actually supports his point. BE-FB had lost Miami(the U), VT(strong) and BC, adding Louisville(OK), Cincinnati(recently decent) and USF. BE-BB had lost Miami, VT and BC, and added Louisville(Oh yeah!), Cincinnati(Huggy Bear!), USF, Marquette (Yes!) and Depaul (decent at the time).

Big East football value had had the hell beaten out of it. BE-BB value was doing just fine.