(01-09-2013 01:44 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 12:52 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 12:39 PM)thegalen Wrote:  Maybe it's 6, or maybe it's 3 and everyone takes a haircut. It depends entirely on whether or not there's a comparable offer on the table from some other network that's ready to be inked. My personal opinion is that ESPN et al have created a bubble, and the C7+ should take the best deal they can get as soon as possible before things burst. This arms race, and cable cross-subsidization, aren't going to last forever. For a number of other reasons, I don't think the new conference can afford to slow walk a deal or shop around for too long over a few million a year.

Well thats the thing, whats the benefit of taking more teams and making less money? There is none for the C7 league members. Yes, the 2 teams who would be those two would benefit but the 12 others wouldn't. If the 2 left out become BBall powers then can be added later because they aren't going anywhere. No need to add too many at the expanse of less money.

You're speaking from the perspective of the C7. I'm taking Fox's POV. Pointless speculation, I know, but I'd bet on the C7 not blowing the whole thing up over $200,000 a year...

Well no where has it been stated that 14 is even being negotiated.

Yeah, like I said, if I'm Fox my ask is for 12-14 teams.

Hahahaha I wonder why a VCU fan would say that?

(01-09-2013 01:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:44 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Well no where has it been stated that 14 is even being negotiated.

Yeah, like I said, if I'm Fox my ask is for 12-14 teams.

Hahahaha I wonder why a VCU fan would say that?

Because he's completely unbiased and a total business whiz?!?!

All kidding aside, there was a lot more mention of 10 teams at the beginning of this process. Seems like it's a forgone conclusion at this point that it's going to be a 12 team league. Ah, the art of the deal!

I disagree with that.

I get the impression that because they aren't really "sold" on the final two, there will be a pause at 10. Then the final two (if they appear) would be added.

(01-09-2013 01:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:44 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 01:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 12:52 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Well thats the thing, whats the benefit of taking more teams and making less money? There is none for the C7 league members. Yes, the 2 teams who would be those two would benefit but the 12 others wouldn't. If the 2 left out become BBall powers then can be added later because they aren't going anywhere. No need to add too many at the expanse of less money.

You're speaking from the perspective of the C7. I'm taking Fox's POV. Pointless speculation, I know, but I'd bet on the C7 not blowing the whole thing up over $200,000 a year...

Well no where has it been stated that 14 is even being negotiated.

Yeah, like I said, if I'm Fox my ask is for 12-14 teams.

Hahahaha I wonder why a VCU fan would say that?

Because he's a kind and generous sort who doesn't want Dayton or SLU left out?

I understand why Fox would want more teams. I think it's going to be 12 to start, because adding teams later is a lot better than inviting someone you end up regretting.

If they DO get to 14, I would not be surprised at all if Duquesne was included.

Obviously, the candidates have more flaws the further down the depth chart you go. Team #14 is going to be weaker than teams 8-10. So if you're adding someone you expect to be near the bottom, you pick someone with growth potential. Someone who'd benefit greatly from inclusion, and with the new TV money, down the road could return the league's investment… by delving a market like Pittsburgh.

They've stated they want this new league to be built on the old Big East's original principles. Well, the original Big East had one state school amid the private schools, and a team in Pittsburgh.

(01-09-2013 12:22 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 11:52 AM)Jet915 Wrote:  Plus, the C7 will be meeting in DC on Saturday, hopefully we will get some concrete news afterwards about the makeup of the league. I sure hope they go to 12 teams, I figure Fox would want more teams = more content. You also have to figure that Fox will want to start the season next year since Fox Sports 1 will be launched this fall.

If I'm Fox I want 12-14 teams. Lotta high stakes poker going on right now!

If 13-14 is Gonzaga and VCU, it might be worth it. Haven't seen 14 discussed anywhere so probably won't happen.

(01-09-2013 01:53 PM)Title Wrote:  I disagree with that.

I get the impression that because they aren't really "sold" on the final two, there will be a pause at 10. Then the final two (if they appear) would be added.

Thamel's piece reads as 12 being definite, with the possibility of 10 to start and 2 following. Haven't seen mention of a 10 team league being a possibility for some time now..

Yes, 10 to start........"2 following" could literally mean any duration of time later.

Just spitballing, but stopping at Creighton, Butler, and Xavier would give them ample time to figure out how to make Gonzaga/BYU work.

(01-09-2013 02:01 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 12:22 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-09-2013 11:52 AM)Jet915 Wrote:  Plus, the C7 will be meeting in DC on Saturday, hopefully we will get some concrete news afterwards about the makeup of the league. I sure hope they go to 12 teams, I figure Fox would want more teams = more content. You also have to figure that Fox will want to start the season next year since Fox Sports 1 will be launched this fall.

If I'm Fox I want 12-14 teams. Lotta high stakes poker going on right now!

If 13-14 is Gonzaga and VCU, it might be worth it. Haven't seen 14 discussed anywhere so probably won't happen.

Agree with JPSchmack. To some degree, every team after 10 is going to be more about markets than if they were one of the 10. Once you've got 5-6 perennial Sweet 16/Final Four candidates in a conference, you've got a marketable product. Once you've got a marketable product, you want more and better markets in which to showcase said product. As John pointed out, this is only in part about college basketball and is a means to a much bigger end. Or at least for Fox it is.

(01-09-2013 02:19 PM)Title Wrote:  Yes, 10 to start........"2 following" could literally mean any duration of time later.

Nino Scalia, is that you?! While literally and technically correct, do you really think Fox is going to plunk down $400 million for 12 teams in 12 markets and then turn around and let 10 teams get away with slowfoottin' things so they can get a fatter per-school payout? Trust that if there is some kind of lag in adding #11 and #12, it won't be up to the C7 to pull them out of a hat whenever they get around to it.

(01-09-2013 01:53 PM)Title Wrote:  I disagree with that.

I get the impression that because they aren't really "sold" on the final two, there will be a pause at 10. Then the final two (if they appear) would be added.

I don't know how you get that impression. Everyone with any credibility has been stating that 12 is whats more than likely to happen and that 4 are either definite or near definite. It seems like the only real question is who the 12th and final team is. Like I said previously, SLU is the leader now but VCU has an opportunity to make up the ground and overtake them with a strong argument that they have a great market and better credentials.

Yes because whomever is 11 and 12 are not what is defining the value proposition of the deal.

There is no one remotely comparable to the value of BYU and Gonzaga in those spots. It makes logical sense to take steps to see if its feasible. Both St Louis and Dayton will still be there in two years.

(01-09-2013 02:31 PM)Title Wrote:  Yes because whomever is 11 and 12 are not what is defining the value proposition of the deal.

There is no one remotely comparable to the value of BYU and Gonzaga in those spots. It makes logical sense to take steps to see if its feasible. Both St Louis and Dayton will still be there in two years.

No way is BYU added. This league is trying to get away from the whims of CFB. That is why UConn and Cincy aren't candidates. Also the whole "no play on Sunday" rule wouldn't fly with this league.

Also no way do we go western, too far away for the rest of our sports. The C7 presidents are very sour on the idea of a national conference.

Also once again, no reliable source considers Gonzaga, let alone BYU to be a realistic option. Right now the candidates are Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, SLU and VCU.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/1820707/

Quote:The person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the discussions, said that a deal is not expected to be done soon because the group has not decided how many teams its new league will have.

(01-09-2013 03:20 PM)Title Wrote:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/1820707/

Quote:The person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the discussions, said that a deal is not expected to be done soon because the group has not decided how many teams its new league will have.

Maybe they should ask FOX "how many do you want?" More realistically, why not ask for indicative pricing on the most likely configurations.

(01-09-2013 03:20 PM)Title Wrote:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/1820707/

Quote:The person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the discussions, said that a deal is not expected to be done soon because the group has not decided how many teams its new league will have.

Could be a discussion about taking all 6 candidates and going to 13. If you're not going to divisions then why be hampered by even numbers?

Or......................

It could be that they are, in fact, doing what Thamel alluded to before, being set with the 10 and unsure of the last 2. This thing dovetails exactly into the pause at 10 and assess scenario.

It's very possible that, after Swarbrick and Marinatto's Big Adventure, there's a real reluctance to let TV decide the membership of the league.

(01-09-2013 03:42 PM)Title Wrote:  Or......................

It could be that they are, in fact, doing what Thamel alluded to before, being set with the 10 and unsure of the last 2. This thing dovetails exactly into the pause at 10 and assess scenario.

Actually Thamel said that two are definite and two are near definite. He then went on to say that talks about VCU has intensified. Which might mean some saying, screw it lets take them as well as the five we already had lined up. I doubt Fox wants to give us 300 million for twelve years for only ten teams for a part of that.

OK, this is verbatim from Thamel's linked article...

Quote:The Basketball Seven are thought to be seeking a 12-year deal. The amount that the schools will receive is still under negotiation, but it's believed to be in the neighborhood of $3 million per school. The league is still expected to grow to 12 teams, although the possibility has been discussed that the league could start at 10 schools and grow into a 12-team league.