(12-07-2012 03:31 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:25 PM)eagleriffic Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:15 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:07 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  I still don't understand the allure of the MWC.

Because UNM, Air Force, UNLV >>>>>>>>> FIU, FAU, ODU

I'm glad Rice is looking to get out. I wish we could bring USM, UAB over with Tulsa, Rice and UTEP.

CUSA should never have expanded and the remnants should have merged with the MWC.

If we cant get into the nBE then sticking with some of our conference mates is better than staying here.

Mtn West East
Air Force
N Mexico
USTA
UTEP
Rice
Tulsa
La Tech
USM

Mtn West West
Hawaii
Fresno St
San Jose St
Nevada
UNLV
Utah St.
Wyoming
Colorado

We're going to take one of Fresno, UNLV, Nevada, or Air Force. Possibly 3 of them.

Hope the Big East takes 3 of them and goes to 16.

Big East takes: Fresno, Air Force and either UNLV or Nevada.

Then CUSA can take Colorado State and the other Nevada team.

Mountain West would then have Hawaii, San Jose St, Utah State, Wyoming and New Mexico. They can grab NM St, Idaho and move someone else up to stay alive

(12-07-2012 05:33 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:07 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  I still don't understand the allure of the MWC.

It's not CUSA, the MAC, or the Sun Belt.

This is nothing new. When CUSA was founded, I was disappointed we had to "roll around in the gutter" with UAB and Tulane. I wanted USM to be in the WAC1.0.

Was I an idiot? Probably so. I did not see how much potential some of those teams had.

But this time, I really don't see any potential in our expansion choices. They will never be "major." There just aren't enough seats left at the table for MTSU et al. to do what Louisville did. All of my opinions are based on that assumption.

San Jose State, Utah State, New Mexico, Wyoming and Air Force are 5 of the 9 schools that will be left when the Big East takes another. If they take 3, CUSA could just take 2 and the MWC would be a joke.

I don't see how Hawaii, Colorado State, UNLV and Nevada are super powers all of a sudden either. I'd group them with Southern Miss and Marshal overall.

Plus this league has more teams with potential in big markets. Those MWC schools are what they are. And if they lose a few more down the line who do they add? There is a lot more adding potential in the CUSA footprint than in the MWC.

Hawaii was in the Sugar Bowl just a few years ago.

I like AFA, UNM, and UNR as institutions. No, they've never been world-beaters in sports.

More importantly, I'd ask you to really think about what "potential " is. Potential to do what?

(12-07-2012 12:01 PM)jay2000 Wrote:  

(12-06-2012 03:51 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Please don't leave us here.....

If Tulsa/UTEP go, I think Rice, Tech, and USM should try and go too.



West: Fresno, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah St, Wyoming, Air Force

East: Colorado St, New Mexico, UTEP, Tulsa, Rice, Tech, USM

Hawaii still football only


CUSA:

West:

NMSU
UTSA
UNT
WKU
MTSU
Ark St?

East:

Marshall
Charlotte
ODU
UAB
FIU
FAU

I have actually heard that Louisiana and Arkansas State would UTEP and Tulsa. But, I don't know how much traction that has.

Anyone who thinks that C-USA will keep the same deal it had before the defectors schools leave for the nBE is nuts. The networks will insist on renegotiating contracts pronto.

(12-07-2012 06:25 PM)TulsaEye Wrote:  Anyone who thinks that C-USA will keep the same deal it had before the defectors schools leave for the nBE is nuts. The networks will insist on renegotiating contracts pronto.

Well yea, but will the MWC make anymore money than us? If so it won't be that much, that's why I don't see any schools of ours leaving.

(12-07-2012 05:57 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  Hawaii was in the Sugar Bowl just a few years ago.

I like AFA, UNM, and UNR as institutions. No, they've never been world-beaters in sports.

More importantly, I'd ask you to really think about what "potential " is. Potential to do what?

Potential to be at least as good as most of the MWC schools while being in way bigger markets.

Hawaii had one good year where they beat an overall bad schedule and then got stomped in a BCS game. Nobody thinks of Hawaii as being a power program. Northern Illinois isn't a powerhouse either and they will get beat by a few scores at least to FSU in a BCS game.

There are a few schools like Fresno that have done a lot more and are a step above all of these newcomers and just started FBS programs. But nobody in the MWC or CUSA is a worldbeater. I can't see the point in breaking up your geographically tight Western division to add a lot of expenses to be with those schools. You will barely play the East anyways.

(12-07-2012 06:58 PM)Blazer88 Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 06:25 PM)TulsaEye Wrote:  Anyone who thinks that C-USA will keep the same deal it had before the defectors schools leave for the nBE is nuts. The networks will insist on renegotiating contracts pronto.

Well yea, but will the MWC make anymore money than us? If so it won't be that much, that's why I don't see any schools of ours leaving.

Agreed. Travel in CUSA should be better because of regional feel of the 2 divisions.

(12-07-2012 04:27 PM)07owl Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 04:10 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:15 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:07 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  I still don't understand the allure of the MWC.

Because UNM, Air Force, UNLV >>>>>>>>> FIU, FAU, ODU

I'm glad Rice is looking to get out. I wish we could bring USM, UAB over with Tulsa, Rice and UTEP.

CUSA should never have expanded and the remnants should have merged with the MWC.

LOL. The MWC is in the **** together, with everyone else. But it's cute if you think the drop in money, farther travel and lack of a traveling fanbase will help you guys out at all.

Good luck with that.

I agree with you that it's pretty hard to predict which conference will be better off in the long run. But you have to look at it from our perspective. The teams in the MWC are flagships, 2nd tier state schools, or well-known names. I think schools like FIU, FAU, ODU, UTSA etc have lots of potential and could very quickly surpass a school like Rice on the athletic field (if not already). But until recently, I hadn't even heard of most of the schools joining c-usa and I'm a pretty big sports fan. If I had heard of them, it was some random directional 4th or 5th tier state school that never really registered for me in interest. Fact is, the Sun Belt and non-D1 football teams are basically out of the public eye. Conference USA had some level of respect with names that were nationally familiar, but that's largely not the case any more. And I'm aware that it could be the case again, given a few years, but that's likely not the case as we've seen successful Sun Belt programs rise and fall without much of a blip on the national radar.

And I know, we're Rice, we're supposed to be horrible at football and basketball, but we're still a name people know due to our academics, long history with SWC schools, or our baseball. If it so happens that we stay in this conference, I will be perfectly happy to talk to people about potential and sleeping giants and whatnot, but I'd rather just say the name of the school and have the person know it. Not trying to offend any of the new members here, because I believe each of them have the potential to get to that point.

I trust by your above statement about not knowing about some of these schools you weren't referring to ODU. If so, have you not filled-out a March Madness bracket the past decade? I know we just started playing football, but here's a look at ODU Athletics at a glance...

28 National Championships across all sports
98-28-4 overall football record
14 NCAA tourney appearances in mens basketball / '75 Division II NC
3x womens bball National Champion / 22x conference champ including 17 straight
15x sailing National Champion
9x womens field hockey National Champion

Any current C-USA schools have a similiar resume? Not to mention our market, etc.

(12-07-2012 07:15 PM)Cant Tame the Lion Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 04:27 PM)07owl Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 04:10 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:15 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:07 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  I still don't understand the allure of the MWC.

Because UNM, Air Force, UNLV >>>>>>>>> FIU, FAU, ODU

I'm glad Rice is looking to get out. I wish we could bring USM, UAB over with Tulsa, Rice and UTEP.

CUSA should never have expanded and the remnants should have merged with the MWC.

LOL. The MWC is in the **** together, with everyone else. But it's cute if you think the drop in money, farther travel and lack of a traveling fanbase will help you guys out at all.

Good luck with that.

I agree with you that it's pretty hard to predict which conference will be better off in the long run. But you have to look at it from our perspective. The teams in the MWC are flagships, 2nd tier state schools, or well-known names. I think schools like FIU, FAU, ODU, UTSA etc have lots of potential and could very quickly surpass a school like Rice on the athletic field (if not already). But until recently, I hadn't even heard of most of the schools joining c-usa and I'm a pretty big sports fan. If I had heard of them, it was some random directional 4th or 5th tier state school that never really registered for me in interest. Fact is, the Sun Belt and non-D1 football teams are basically out of the public eye. Conference USA had some level of respect with names that were nationally familiar, but that's largely not the case any more. And I'm aware that it could be the case again, given a few years, but that's likely not the case as we've seen successful Sun Belt programs rise and fall without much of a blip on the national radar.

And I know, we're Rice, we're supposed to be horrible at football and basketball, but we're still a name people know due to our academics, long history with SWC schools, or our baseball. If it so happens that we stay in this conference, I will be perfectly happy to talk to people about potential and sleeping giants and whatnot, but I'd rather just say the name of the school and have the person know it. Not trying to offend any of the new members here, because I believe each of them have the potential to get to that point.

I trust by your above statement about not knowing about some of these schools you weren't referring to ODU. If so, have you not filled-out a March Madness bracket the past decade? I know we just started playing football, but here's a look at ODU Athletics at a glance...

28 National Championships across all sports
98-28-4 overall football record
14 NCAA tourney appearances in mens basketball / '75 Division II NC
3x womens bball National Champion / 22x conference champ including 17 straight
15x sailing National Champion
9x womens field hockey National Champion

Any current C-USA schools have a similiar resume? Not to mention our market, etc.

Can't Tame The Lion is correct. In the east ODU a well known and respected institution. True, football is still developing but when you mention ODU everyone knows who they are and understand the obvious upside they provide.

(12-07-2012 05:43 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 05:33 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:07 PM)TheNorthTexan Wrote:  I still don't understand the allure of the MWC.

It's not CUSA, the MAC, or the Sun Belt.

This is nothing new. When CUSA was founded, I was disappointed we had to "roll around in the gutter" with UAB and Tulane. I wanted USM to be in the WAC1.0.

Was I an idiot? Probably so. I did not see how much potential some of those teams had.

But this time, I really don't see any potential in our expansion choices. They will never be "major." There just aren't enough seats left at the table for MTSU et al. to do what Louisville did. All of my opinions are based on that assumption.

San Jose State, Utah State, New Mexico, Wyoming and Air Force are 5 of the 9 schools that will be left when the Big East takes another. If they take 3, CUSA could just take 2 and the MWC would be a joke.

I don't see how Hawaii, Colorado State, UNLV and Nevada are super powers all of a sudden either. I'd group them with Southern Miss and Marshal overall.

Plus this league has more teams with potential in big markets. Those MWC schools are what they are. And if they lose a few more down the line who do they add? There is a lot more adding potential in the CUSA footprint than in the MWC.

This is a tough call and you make many good points.

I wish C-USA had waited on additions, so we would have an option to pull the best MWC programs eastward. But I don't think we do.

If the MWC loses more programs to the nBE, I think the MWC will come back for UTSA, Louisiana Tech, and USM (if they are not in the nBE).

Rumor has it that ASU and Louisiana will be heading to the MWC.

(12-07-2012 07:46 PM)Louisianafanrcajun90 Wrote:  Rumor has it that ASU and Louisiana will be heading to the MWC.

Got a link?

(12-07-2012 07:46 PM)Louisianafanrcajun90 Wrote:  Rumor has it that ASU and Louisiana will be heading to the MWC.

Good one.

I could see USM, UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, and maybe La Tech sticking together.

But I really feel for Marshal and UAB. They've been great conference mates, and don't deserve to be abandoned by ALL of their conference mates at once.

Again, this is no knock on ODU, Charlotte, UNT, and others. Some additions are fine. But too many changes at the same time, makes it look like it is no longer CUSA.... This is what many nBE fans do not understand. The national radio shows are asking that they change their name, and no longer call themselves the BE. What does that tell us? People see what they want to see, but national perception tells us where we really stand.

In the end, it will be CUSA (nBE) and MWC as the true "mid-majors". Both will have comparable TV money (around 3 mill per school). The nBE may get 500K or so more per team, but there will be equilibrium when it all settles.

(12-07-2012 08:14 PM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  In the end, it will be CUSA (nBE) and MWC as the true "mid-majors". Both will have comparable TV money (around 3 mill per school). The nBE may get 500K or so more per team, but there will be equilibrium when it all settles.

Lol. Why is the former WAC plus the former C-Usa west now worth 5 times more?

(12-07-2012 08:14 PM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  I could see USM, UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, and maybe La Tech sticking together.
\

Would love to see that but I don't think we will.

(12-07-2012 07:46 PM)Louisianafanrcajun90 Wrote:  Rumor has it that ASU and Louisiana will be heading to the MWC.

I've heard this also..haven't found anything on it but...never know

With all the exit fees UAB would collect if we are left alone, we'd pay cash for our on campus stadium

(12-07-2012 09:03 PM)trailherd Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 08:14 PM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  In the end, it will be CUSA (nBE) and MWC as the true "mid-majors". Both will have comparable TV money (around 3 mill per school). The nBE may get 500K or so more per team, but there will be equilibrium when it all settles.

Lol. Why is the former WAC plus the former C-Usa west now worth 5 times more?

Isn't it obvious? It's because of the additions of UTSA, ODU, and Charlotte to the FBS level! (Possibly the additions of GaSt and South Alabama and TxSt too.) hehehehe.