(11-29-2012 01:15 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 12:56 PM)tigtoodawg Wrote:  MWC doesn't want Tech. Heck the MWC = WAC 2.0, and they always bitched about having to come to Ruston. And for other CST schools, go to the MWC, and see the fans decide not to travel because it's too far and get ready for your teams to play late at night, especially when traveling to Hawaii.

The WAC was fine for Tech, but a Southern/East Coast based conference is more preferable. Our fans have wanted to drive to games for years.

They bitched, but they still let you in. And the move I'm talking about would bring in a clustered (heh heh) group of teams to make an eastern division.

I think this is going to happen. I think it will be collaborative (no fees). I'm 50-50 on whether USM and Tech participate

They didn't ***** initially because we were with Rice, Tulsa, UTEP, etc. for the first couple of years, and then they left for CUSA, leaving us on an island.

Now that I think about all of this, you may be right. Funny how history repeats itself.

(11-29-2012 12:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 12:05 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 11:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I still tend to think if MWC poaches from CUSA West, Rice is included. If you are getting on a plane anyway, Houston is just as easy (easier?) to get to than Tulsa and El Paso, and a much bigger market and recruiting ground. Not saying on the field performance has been the best of the three, but based on the criteria conferences seem to be using, I have a hard time seeing the Owls left out, unless the MWC takes only one....

I think I'd want Rice to take that deal (UTEP/Tulsa/Rice/maybe one other to the MWC) but I'm not as convinced it's the right move as I was yesterday unless there's some evidence the MWC TV deal will improve.

This is kind of what I think too. If thw MWC wanted to really strengthen it's position, they would not stop with El Paso and Tulsa, when they could take the Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio markets too. That move should force a better T.V. deal. Add in LA Tech and Southern Miss and they push the new Big East for the top of the Gang of Five, after the ACC is finished raiding.

I don't see any MWC teams leaving this set-up for the new Big East, where they would add travel costs and have to find new homes for their Olympic sports.

I really hope this happens. Yeah, in theory, we'd sacrifice some media money for a few years. But the next renegotiation would reverse this. And I think you're right about stability. There are a lot of established FBS teams who WANT to be in the MWC, which is more than we can say about CUSA.

Glad you like it. Here is what I think it would look like.

Southwest Division
UTEP/New Mexico
UNT/Tulsa
Southern Miss/LA Tech
Rice/UTSA

Mountain West Division
CO St./Air Force
UNLV/Nevada
Fresno St./SJSU
Wyoming/Utah St.
Hawaii

No crossover games. Just a championship game.

(11-29-2012 02:44 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 12:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 12:05 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 11:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I still tend to think if MWC poaches from CUSA West, Rice is included. If you are getting on a plane anyway, Houston is just as easy (easier?) to get to than Tulsa and El Paso, and a much bigger market and recruiting ground. Not saying on the field performance has been the best of the three, but based on the criteria conferences seem to be using, I have a hard time seeing the Owls left out, unless the MWC takes only one....

I think I'd want Rice to take that deal (UTEP/Tulsa/Rice/maybe one other to the MWC) but I'm not as convinced it's the right move as I was yesterday unless there's some evidence the MWC TV deal will improve.

This is kind of what I think too. If thw MWC wanted to really strengthen it's position, they would not stop with El Paso and Tulsa, when they could take the Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio markets too. That move should force a better T.V. deal. Add in LA Tech and Southern Miss and they push the new Big East for the top of the Gang of Five, after the ACC is finished raiding.

I don't see any MWC teams leaving this set-up for the new Big East, where they would add travel costs and have to find new homes for their Olympic sports.

I really hope this happens. Yeah, in theory, we'd sacrifice some media money for a few years. But the next renegotiation would reverse this. And I think you're right about stability. There are a lot of established FBS teams who WANT to be in the MWC, which is more than we can say about CUSA.

Glad you like it. Here is what I think it would look like.

Southwest Division
UTEP/New Mexico
UNT/Tulsa
Southern Miss/LA Tech
Rice/UTSA

Mountain West Division
CO St./Air Force
UNLV/Nevada
Fresno St./SJSU
Wyoming/Utah St.
Hawaii

No crossover games. Just a championship game.

That would be a good-looking conference. If that happens, where would you want to see Marshall wind up?

Marshall->Big East, but after next season

(11-29-2012 03:20 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 02:44 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 12:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 12:05 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 11:36 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I still tend to think if MWC poaches from CUSA West, Rice is included. If you are getting on a plane anyway, Houston is just as easy (easier?) to get to than Tulsa and El Paso, and a much bigger market and recruiting ground. Not saying on the field performance has been the best of the three, but based on the criteria conferences seem to be using, I have a hard time seeing the Owls left out, unless the MWC takes only one....

I think I'd want Rice to take that deal (UTEP/Tulsa/Rice/maybe one other to the MWC) but I'm not as convinced it's the right move as I was yesterday unless there's some evidence the MWC TV deal will improve.

This is kind of what I think too. If thw MWC wanted to really strengthen it's position, they would not stop with El Paso and Tulsa, when they could take the Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio markets too. That move should force a better T.V. deal. Add in LA Tech and Southern Miss and they push the new Big East for the top of the Gang of Five, after the ACC is finished raiding.

I don't see any MWC teams leaving this set-up for the new Big East, where they would add travel costs and have to find new homes for their Olympic sports.

I really hope this happens. Yeah, in theory, we'd sacrifice some media money for a few years. But the next renegotiation would reverse this. And I think you're right about stability. There are a lot of established FBS teams who WANT to be in the MWC, which is more than we can say about CUSA.

Glad you like it. Here is what I think it would look like.

Southwest Division
UTEP/New Mexico
UNT/Tulsa
Southern Miss/LA Tech
Rice/UTSA

Mountain West Division
CO St./Air Force
UNLV/Nevada
Fresno St./SJSU
Wyoming/Utah St.
Hawaii

No crossover games. Just a championship game.

That would be a good-looking conference. If that happens, where would you want to see Marshall wind up?

Sad to say, but Marshall, UAB, FIU, FAU, Charlotte, and MTSU would have to rebuild C-USA by adding more Sun Belt schools. Maybe that's why the Belt is looking at NMSU, Idaho, and GSU.

It would be a regional realignment of the Gang of Four. (The Sun Belt should survive as a FBS conference, but it would be a far flung collection with more FCS move-ups then they want, and still have a terrible media deal.)

Under this situation, I think Marshall would look at the MAC. The MAC is becoming a stronger conference just by staying out of this realignment mess.

I mentioned an idea earlier on the Rice board that would have CUSA West and Southern Mississippi sell itself to the MWC as an all-or-nothing, package deal. This way, we allign ourselves with the MWC, while also keeping our geography tight. It would benefit the MWC in that they would have access to big Texas markets and the central timezone. Most of CUSA West's current members reside in big markets. Tulsa, Louisiana Tech and USM each have good tradition in football.

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that we won't be going to the MWC anytime soon.

Here are my reasons:
1. The MWC now makes about $800k per school/per year with their current tv contract, so lets say if UTEP and Tulsa move over to the MWC, then each school will make even less than $800k per year. In C-USA we will make about double than what they currently make.
2. A move to the MWC would cost our school a $5 million exit fee and we potentially lose out on millions of $$ coming from the exit fees from Memphis, UH, SMU, ECU, UCF, and Tulane! So lets say the 6 exiting schools will pay us about $30 million to leave, that will be some nice cash that will be split between the leftover schools.
3. Entrance fees from the incoming schools, All 8 incoming schools will pay us as well to join our conference, so that will also add to our existing members coffers.
4. C-USA West doesn't look that bad when you look at the lineup we will have if everyone stays put. We will still play current C-USA schools in Tulsa, Rice, and possibly USM. Plus with schools like UNT, UTSA, and La Tech in our division, we will still have games that the majority of our fans and alumni can go to.
5. MWC (like C-USA) is still a potential target for future raids by the BE. If lets say that Fresno, UNLV, and/or AFA decide to leave the MWC in the near future to join the BE, then the MWC will be weakened even more so than we are. BSU, SDSU, both are saying that they are not wavering and will stay with the BE, so they are going to have to get some schools closer to them to appease them soon. The MWC would probably have to take NMSU and Idaho if it gets raided again, and people here get mad because we might get stuck with NMSU in C-USA, well the same thing can happen, but with us both in the MWC.

So even though I would like for UTEP to join the MWC right now, especially when you compare the two conferences at this point. I still think UTEP will tough it out a bit more in C-USA, wait for things to stabilize some more, collect our fees ($$$), and see if the future MWC TV contract will get better or worse to see if we can make the jump later.

I am just worried about the first time we host MTSU and the casual fan thinks its another Ark Pine Bluff school and decides to pass.

(11-29-2012 04:57 PM)MinerTime Wrote:  I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that we won't be going to the MWC anytime soon.

Here are my reasons:
1. The MWC now makes about $800k per school/per year with their current tv contract, so lets say if UTEP and Tulsa move over to the MWC, then each school will make even less than $800k per year. In C-USA we will make about double than what they currently make.
2. A move to the MWC would cost our school a $5 million exit fee and we potentially lose out on millions of $$ coming from the exit fees from Memphis, UH, SMU, ECU, UCF, and Tulane! So lets say the 6 exiting schools will pay us about $30 million to leave, that will be some nice cash that will be split between the leftover schools.
3. Entrance fees from the incoming schools, All 8 incoming schools will pay us as well to join our conference, so that will also add to our existing members coffers.
4. C-USA West doesn't look that bad when you look at the lineup we will have if everyone stays put. We will still play current C-USA schools in Tulsa, Rice, and possibly USM. Plus with schools like UNT, UTSA, and La Tech in our division, we will still have games that the majority of our fans and alumni can go to.
5. MWC (like C-USA) is still a potential target for future raids by the BE. If lets say that Fresno, UNLV, and/or AFA decide to leave the MWC in the near future to join the BE, then the MWC will be weakened even more so than we are. BSU, SDSU, both are saying that they are not wavering and will stay with the BE, so they are going to have to get some schools closer to them to appease them soon. The MWC would probably have to take NMSU and Idaho if it gets raided again, and people here get mad because we might get stuck with NMSU in C-USA, well the same thing can happen, but with us both in the MWC.

So even though I would like for UTEP to join the MWC right now, especially when you compare the two conferences at this point. I still think UTEP will tough it out a bit more in C-USA, wait for things to stabilize some more, collect our fees ($$$), and see if the future MWC TV contract will get better or worse to see if we can make the jump later.

Fantastic post. Lots of perspective I hadn't considered - the CUSA West isn't near the disaster of it's East counterpart.

(11-29-2012 05:03 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  I am just worried about the first time we host MTSU and the casual fan thinks its another Ark Pine Bluff school and decides to pass.

True Binks, but we will hardly ever have to play the East Div schools. We will have 7 schools in the West Div that our fans already know or can get to know better.

I would like for us to join the MWC, but only if none of their current teams leave to the BE. And also if we can get a school like Tulsa to join us.

(11-29-2012 04:57 PM)MinerTime Wrote:  I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that we won't be going to the MWC anytime soon.

Here are my reasons:
1. The MWC now makes about $800k per school/per year with their current tv contract, so lets say if UTEP and Tulsa move over to the MWC, then each school will make even less than $800k per year. In C-USA we will make about double than what they currently make.
2. A move to the MWC would cost our school a $5 million exit fee and we potentially lose out on millions of $$ coming from the exit fees from Memphis, UH, SMU, ECU, UCF, and Tulane! So lets say the 6 exiting schools will pay us about $30 million to leave, that will be some nice cash that will be split between the leftover schools.
3. Entrance fees from the incoming schools, All 8 incoming schools will pay us as well to join our conference, so that will also add to our existing members coffers.
4. C-USA West doesn't look that bad when you look at the lineup we will have if everyone stays put. We will still play current C-USA schools in Tulsa, Rice, and possibly USM. Plus with schools like UNT, UTSA, and La Tech in our division, we will still have games that the majority of our fans and alumni can go to.
5. MWC (like C-USA) is still a potential target for future raids by the BE. If lets say that Fresno, UNLV, and/or AFA decide to leave the MWC in the near future to join the BE, then the MWC will be weakened even more so than we are. BSU, SDSU, both are saying that they are not wavering and will stay with the BE, so they are going to have to get some schools closer to them to appease them soon. The MWC would probably have to take NMSU and Idaho if it gets raided again, and people here get mad because we might get stuck with NMSU in C-USA, well the same thing can happen, but with us both in the MWC.

So even though I would like for UTEP to join the MWC right now, especially when you compare the two conferences at this point. I still think UTEP will tough it out a bit more in C-USA, wait for things to stabilize some more, collect our fees ($$$), and see if the future MWC TV contract will get better or worse to see if we can make the jump later.

very well put about 10 million to make lateral move.. Ain't happening for couple years at lease..

(11-29-2012 05:07 PM)the1sttransport Wrote:  Fantastic post. Lots of perspective I hadn't considered - the CUSA West isn't near the disaster of it's East counterpart.

(11-29-2012 05:10 PM)Fear The Frog Wrote:  very well put about 10 million to make lateral move.. Ain't happening for couple years at lease..

Thank you both.

I really would like for us to move conferences at this point, but realistically I just don't see it happening in the near future. In a few years down the road maybe.. but not until things are more clear for us.

And after we collect our bling-bling of course..

(11-29-2012 05:20 PM)MinerTime Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 05:07 PM)the1sttransport Wrote:  Fantastic post. Lots of perspective I hadn't considered - the CUSA West isn't near the disaster of it's East counterpart.

(11-29-2012 05:10 PM)Fear The Frog Wrote:  very well put about 10 million to make lateral move.. Ain't happening for couple years at lease..

Thank you both.

I really would like for us to move conferences at this point, but realistically I just don't see it happening in the near future. In a few years down the road maybe.. but not until things are more clear for us.

And after we collect our bling-bling of course..

I have to concede that you are likely right. I too was hoping for a move west soon but since you had to go and use common sense then we're staying for a while.

I don't care about all that. This lineup will kill what fan support we have left. I say we go and you'll just have to send us a bill. Anything less is like haggling over the price of a life preserver while drowning.

(11-29-2012 05:20 PM)MinerTime Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 05:07 PM)the1sttransport Wrote:  Fantastic post. Lots of perspective I hadn't considered - the CUSA West isn't near the disaster of it's East counterpart.

(11-29-2012 05:10 PM)Fear The Frog Wrote:  very well put about 10 million to make lateral move.. Ain't happening for couple years at lease..

Thank you both.

I really would like for us to move conferences at this point, but realistically I just don't see it happening in the near future. In a few years down the road maybe.. but not until things are more clear for us.

And after we collect our bling-bling of course..

Here we are searching for a new coach, wondering how much we can pay when we are expecting a windfall. Hmmm....

(11-29-2012 05:25 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 05:20 PM)MinerTime Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 05:07 PM)the1sttransport Wrote:  Fantastic post. Lots of perspective I hadn't considered - the CUSA West isn't near the disaster of it's East counterpart.

(11-29-2012 05:10 PM)Fear The Frog Wrote:  very well put about 10 million to make lateral move.. Ain't happening for couple years at lease..

Thank you both.

I really would like for us to move conferences at this point, but realistically I just don't see it happening in the near future. In a few years down the road maybe.. but not until things are more clear for us.

And after we collect our bling-bling of course..

I have to concede that you are likely right. I too was hoping for a move west soon but since you had to go and use common sense then we're staying for a while.

Yeah its a bummer, but UTEP can use all that cash that will coming our way if we stay put. I still think it would be better for us long term if we left, but since money is driving everything these days in college sports, I just think UTEP's officials will decide to stay here.

Now if the MWC could actually get a decent TV contract.. then I think our school would think about it more, but 800k?? Man, that sux!

I just breezed over the post, but why would anyone who's not in El Paso want to join the Mountain West?

CUSA west could have a nice tight core of Rice, Tulsa, NT, La Tech, UTSA, and maybe USM.

Virtually all the "new" teams are in the east. West schools won't play them that often in football.

Is going to Wyoming, San Jose State, Utah State, Colorado State really that interesting?

(11-29-2012 05:07 PM)the1sttransport Wrote:  Fantastic post. Lots of perspective I hadn't considered - the CUSA West isn't near the disaster of it's East counterpart.

I do wish that everyone would quit referring to the East as a "disaster", even if USM were to go west. (Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only person defending the new arrivals, even if I have to stretch at times for the FAU/FIU combination... remember, those were the only two I wasn't a big fan of, but now that they're part of the family, you talk bad about them, I take out yer knees!)

We know what Marshall can do... If ODU moves correctly and quickly, they're going to be okay (and arguably the BEST position for the future in terms of overall school-situation), FIU/FAU keeps the Florida recruitment door open (which would be just fine by USM, UAB, and Marshall's history).
MTSU is already solid, if not spectacular (again, see MTSU vs. Memphis).
UAB might even get things turned around in the football dept at some point? (they're still there in basketball, so that I'm not worried about that yet.).

Football: West (w/USM definitely, w/o USM - still up there.)
Basketball: Eastside (with no doubt... although it could be balanced.)
WBB: Does it really matter?
Baseball: Edge to the West.. (although UTEP still hasn't put together a team for some dumb reason).
Soccer: Eastside

(11-29-2012 05:39 PM)RaiderDoug Wrote:  I just breezed over the post, but why would anyone who's not in El Paso want to join the Mountain West?

CUSA west could have a nice tight core of Rice, Tulsa, NT, La Tech, UTSA, and maybe USM.

Virtually all the "new" teams are in the east. West schools won't play them that often in football.

Is going to Wyoming, San Jose State, Utah State, Colorado State really that interesting?

Yes, because they have legitimate major college football history, and because CUSA is a sinking ship.

(11-29-2012 05:43 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  Yes, because they have legitimate major college football history, and because CUSA is a sinking ship.

Ok, I get Fresno, Hawaii.

But San Jose State has legitimate major college football history? Utah State? Wyoming? UNLV?

I know they're new to FBS, but I'd buy stock in the next 20 years of ODU and FIU football rather than jump in with those dogs.