Fitbud
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Federalists or AntiFederalists?
The Federalists and Anti Federalists no longer exist as political parties.
I would be interested however in seeing who you would identify with if they existed today and why.
Give me your thoughts.
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11-09-2012 10:04 AM |
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Fitbud
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
NO one wants to tackle this one?
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11-09-2012 03:02 PM |
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Jugnaut
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
I'm firmly in the articles of confederation camp
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11-09-2012 03:03 PM |
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mixduptransistor
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-09-2012 03:03 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: I'm firmly in the articles of confederation camp
There's a reason they went away. Do you think in a modern world and economy it would be *easier* under the articles?
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11-09-2012 05:26 PM |
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Jugnaut
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-09-2012 05:26 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: (11-09-2012 03:03 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: I'm firmly in the articles of confederation camp
There's a reason they went away. Do you think in a modern world and economy it would be *easier* under the articles?
Easier? Probably not, but it would also be easier if we still dumped toxic waste under playgrounds and had child labor. Easier doesn't make it better. The economy as a whole would be more resilient, we'd have 50 state currencies so we'd avoid sovereign debt crisis more easily, we would be unlikely to fight foreign wars as each state wouldn't offer it's own troops or cash unless it was a really good cause. And the federal government would be very limited, wouldn't be able to destroy our freedoms. Look at the growth of the federal government since our nation's founding. Obviously the constitution has failed to limit the federal government to the degree necessary to protect our liberties.
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11-10-2012 02:48 PM |
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mixduptransistor
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
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11-10-2012 02:50 PM |
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RobertN
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 02:48 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: (11-09-2012 05:26 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: (11-09-2012 03:03 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: I'm firmly in the articles of confederation camp
There's a reason they went away. Do you think in a modern world and economy it would be *easier* under the articles?
Easier? Probably not, but it would also be easier if we still dumped toxic waste under playgrounds and had child labor. Easier doesn't make it better. The economy as a whole would be more resilient, we'd have 50 state currencies so we'd avoid sovereign debt crisis more easily, we would be unlikely to fight foreign wars as each state wouldn't offer it's own troops or cash unless it was a really good cause. And the federal government would be very limited, wouldn't be able to destroy our freedoms. Look at the growth of the federal government since our nation's founding. Obviously the constitution has failed to limit the federal government to the degree necessary to protect our liberties.
Wow. Just wow.
FYI, we would be heading back to dumped toxic waste and child labor if we elected the people you vote for.
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11-10-2012 03:06 PM |
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nomad2u2001
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 02:50 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
Would CA have even been eventually included into the confederation? If so, would it not have split up by now? Under the Articles, would CA have the same political leanings as it does now?
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11-10-2012 03:32 PM |
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mixduptransistor
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
If she had wheels, my grandmother would be a wagon. This is my point, the whole discussion is pointless. There's no what to know what the outcome of world history would have been had we stayed under the articles of confederation. I have a feeling that it would have collapsed and we'd just have had 13 independent countries, and the midwest and west united states would be france and mexico, respectively
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11-10-2012 03:41 PM |
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Jugnaut
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 02:50 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
We wouldn't be an overextended bankrupt declining empire under the Articles that's for sure. We'd be economically strong, resilient, independent, and free. You talk like a liberal, but seem to want to be the world's superpower/world's policeman. Which is it? I would gladly welcome the US giving up the role of world's policeman and fighting unnecessary foreign wars. NY, CA, and IL, liberal paradises, are the most bankrupt states. They don't have the economic muscle to do anything except commit economic suicide.
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11-10-2012 06:43 PM |
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RobertN
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 06:43 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: (11-10-2012 02:50 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
We wouldn't be an overextended bankrupt declining empire under the Articles that's for sure. We'd be economically strong, resilient, independent, and free. You talk like a liberal, but seem to want to be the world's superpower/world's policeman. Which is it? I would gladly welcome the US giving up the role of world's policeman and fighting unnecessary foreign wars. NY, CA, and IL, liberal paradises, are the most bankrupt states. They don't have the economic muscle to do anything except commit economic suicide.
Did they legalize marijuana in Floriduh too?
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11-10-2012 06:45 PM |
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nomad2u2001
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 06:43 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: (11-10-2012 02:50 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
We wouldn't be an overextended bankrupt declining empire under the Articles that's for sure. We'd be economically strong, resilient, independent, and free. You talk like a liberal, but seem to want to be the world's superpower/world's policeman. Which is it? I would gladly welcome the US giving up the role of world's policeman and fighting unnecessary foreign wars. NY, CA, and IL, liberal paradises, are the most bankrupt states. They don't have the economic muscle to do anything except commit economic suicide.
Would the states even have the same currency as each other?
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11-10-2012 06:59 PM |
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Jugnaut
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 06:59 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: (11-10-2012 06:43 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: (11-10-2012 02:50 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
We wouldn't be an overextended bankrupt declining empire under the Articles that's for sure. We'd be economically strong, resilient, independent, and free. You talk like a liberal, but seem to want to be the world's superpower/world's policeman. Which is it? I would gladly welcome the US giving up the role of world's policeman and fighting unnecessary foreign wars. NY, CA, and IL, liberal paradises, are the most bankrupt states. They don't have the economic muscle to do anything except commit economic suicide.
Would the states even have the same currency as each other?
Probably not, but that's a huge advantage. It gets creates resiliency. Look at all the EU's problems caused by a single currency. If you have a multi-currency system, if one fails, everything doesn't collapse. In the US, if the dollar loses a lot of value because of debt and money printing, all 50 states are screwed. You could diversify with 50 state currencies.
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11-10-2012 07:03 PM |
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mixduptransistor
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RE: Federalists or AntiFederalists?
(11-10-2012 06:59 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: (11-10-2012 06:43 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: (11-10-2012 02:50 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: America would not be America if we were under the Articles of Confederation. You seem to think we'd still have our role in the world we do now if that were the case, but we'd just be a middling bunch of countries if that were the case. I wonder which states would have the economic muscle to do anything? Oh, the blue ones like NY and CA.
We wouldn't be an overextended bankrupt declining empire under the Articles that's for sure. We'd be economically strong, resilient, independent, and free. You talk like a liberal, but seem to want to be the world's superpower/world's policeman. Which is it? I would gladly welcome the US giving up the role of world's policeman and fighting unnecessary foreign wars. NY, CA, and IL, liberal paradises, are the most bankrupt states. They don't have the economic muscle to do anything except commit economic suicide.
Would the states even have the same currency as each other?
No, you'd have 50 different currencies and the "US" would be no better off than Europe in the 60s
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11-10-2012 07:03 PM |
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