I think we can all agree that college isn't for everybody.

The problem is, more and more jobs in the real world are requiring college degrees. I worked at Walgreens for brief period, and to be a manager all you had to do was have a college degree. So basically, they were saying an education major(no offense to anybody, just using an example) was more qualified to help run a store than a person who worked there for 5 years and knew the ins and outs of it, but had no degree. I could list 20 other examples, but this shows my point.

I graduated in December 08, one of the worst times to look for an entry-level position. It took me 7 months to find a real job. While I was looking I worked in a restaurant, and I actually made more money in the restaurant then I did my entry level position. Today, I have basically doubled my crappy salary I took 3 years ago. But, today, I don't use anything I learned in college on a daily basis. I had to learn how to use Cost Point, but everything else I use on a regular basis involves thing I learned in high school. I could have done this job straight out of high school, but that degree is the only reason I have it.

We wonder why the country is broke... we force people to go into debt to get a decent job, and then they are stuck paying of loans for years because the cost of college is going through the roof.

I left college because I did not want to start out life deep in debt. Also I had changed majors to journalism & found that as a retail manager I was making more $$$ than most of the newspaper & tv ppl i knew at the time. Also throw in that I was making mire than most cops I knew it is kinda of disheartening.

Now 20+ years later I have been told even w/o a degree I'm "over qualified" for some jobs that I have applied for. I should also mention I am normally a call center trainer but work with 401k accounts now.

College is not for everyone & eventually I will go back & finish my degree to show my kids that you should finish what you start & to never give up on your goals.

Very simply, if you start a major and there is no math involved you are most likely wasting your time. Outside of the required certification positions, a degree without computational complexity provides little analytical and logic based thought process that most business are looking for.

If you go to college and pick a major you like, but there is no real outlet for the application of knowledge, where really is the scam? Is it the college's fault that you are disillusioned to the point that leads it you to think that you can spend the money required to receive the knowledge and not have a way to adequately monetize that be able to pay for that investment? The fault lies within the student, not the university at the point.

The real issue starts in the high schools that are funded based upon graduation rates. They therefore put kids into the easiest track, not the track that will best prepare them for college. If you don't take the math based courses in your formative years, it is much more difficult to build that knowledge base in college.

An old professor told me a long time ago, "Here we don't do general anything. That is for those fools who want to keep wasting their money and never find a job. Find your niche, the stronger the analytical skills the better, and get out". By far the best piece of advice I ever received.

(09-26-2012 09:49 PM)Caltex2 Wrote:  

I know employers are looking for a college degree now days. That's not up for debate, I'm not arguing against that. I'm asking if college is a scam now days.








I'll try to wrap this up because it's long enough but why don't more people at least start at a JUCO , then go to the 4 year schools? Or perhaps consider a trade school, which can be cheaper and get you out and making money quicker? And for some, what's the point of going to college, spending both valuable time and money when all you want to do is mess around anyways (i.e. partying, drinking, Greek organizations, sex, sports, etc...)? Because of this idea of people going for these reasons, employers are starting to see beyond someone having a certain major and even having gone to a prestigious school because it doesn't prove they learned much there or they may not be qualified for the job. The grading system in the US has been a joke because it allows people who didn't make the grade in reality to pass anyways (and I benefited from this sometimes too).

The reason I think most young adults don't start out at a JUCO is because they want their independence from their father and/or mother ASAP. The quickest way to achieve that by going to a four year college in year one.
As for trade schools, IMO, more businesses tend to look more favorable on a college degree than one from a trade school, even though the graduate from the trade school may be more of a better fit at the position than the college graduate. As for Greek organizations, it's just a way to socialize in college, and little else. But some girls are so arrogant, they won't date any guy who's not in a fraternity, so being in a fraternity helps a little bit there, I guess.

College is a scam or not a scam simply based off what YOU choose to major in. I'm a civil engineering major and the only way I could become a civil engineer is through a 4 year accredited degree. The problem with college is that a large amount of college degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on. No offense if you're a history, art, music, or sociology major, but chances are majority of you will never find a job that applies to that degree. This is just my opinion, but it appears to me that the only valuable college degrees are ones that educate you in a highly technical area of expertise such as engineering, computer systems, and medical fields. It just seems to me that is what the world is wanting from college grads. Today we have our career fair at Tech I've heard out of the 130ish companies in attendance probably 80% are engineering related. This could be because we are a well known engineering school or it could be a reflection of what employers need these days. Just a thought.

(09-27-2012 07:13 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Life's a scam.
Just depends on what part of the matrix you happen to be part of.

Wow, that may be the most intelligent thing I've ever read here. +2

(09-27-2012 08:57 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I think we can all agree that college isn't for everybody.

The problem is, more and more jobs in the real world are requiring college degrees. I worked at Walgreens for brief period, and to be a manager all you had to do was have a college degree. So basically, they were saying an education major(no offense to anybody, just using an example) was more qualified to help run a store than a person who worked there for 5 years and knew the ins and outs of it, but had no degree. I could list 20 other examples, but this shows my point.

I graduated in December 08, one of the worst times to look for an entry-level position. It took me 7 months to find a real job. While I was looking I worked in a restaurant, and I actually made more money in the restaurant then I did my entry level position. Today, I have basically doubled my crappy salary I took 3 years ago. But, today, I don't use anything I learned in college on a daily basis. I had to learn how to use Cost Point, but everything else I use on a regular basis involves thing I learned in high school. I could have done this job straight out of high school, but that degree is the only reason I have it.

We wonder why the country is broke... we force people to go into debt to get a decent job, and then they are stuck paying of loans for years because the cost of college is going through the roof.

I have heard your story of never using what you learned in college so much it's amazing and the last paragraph is very true.

If you need a bachelor's degree to go to a graduate school = Not a scam
If you will make more than $40k a year right out of college with your degree = Not a scam
If you will make more than $50k within 10 years of graduating = Not a scam
If you'll never make more than $50k with your degree = SCAM

Germany has a good system that avoids a lot of the "everyone has to go to college" mantra. They have two different types of high schools. The technical high schools prepare you for a trade, while the college prep high schools prepare you for university. Also, even in the university level, they make you take every other semester off to actually work internships in your chosen field.

The problem here is that now, because college degrees are so prevalent, you have to have one to work a job that our parents would have got with a GED.

(09-27-2012 09:04 AM)laxtonto Wrote:  If you go to college and pick a major you like, but there is no real outlet for the application of knowledge, where really is the scam? Is it the college's fault that you are disillusioned to the point that leads it you to think that you can spend the money required to receive the knowledge and not have a way to adequately monetize that be able to pay for that investment? The fault lies within the student, not the university at the point.

The scam is the culture of needing a degree in many instances when you, in reality, don't really need one. You're put in a corner where all people are looking for is to see if you have a worthless piece of paper that doesn't prove you did anything more but party, watch sports and cheat your way through college though I admit that's rare and extreme. I told you about how now days even many internships, especially the high profile ones, are requiring people to be working on college credit. That's not really fair.

If I were a parent, I would strongly suggest my child go to a JUCO for two years and then take their time in school. No one says you have to finish school in 4-6 years, you can be a part time student with a part time job on the side and be successful, heck it makes you feel better to have money in your pocket.

(09-27-2012 05:53 AM)Chappy Wrote:  College is not a scam, but the mentality that was pushed for the last two decades - that EVERYONE should go to college - was a bad idea.

THIS.

(09-27-2012 09:22 AM)RonBurgundy Wrote:  College is a scam or not a scam simply based off what YOU choose to major in. I'm a civil engineering major and the only way I could become a civil engineer is through a 4 year accredited degree. The problem with college is that a large amount of college degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on. No offense if you're a history, art, music, or sociology major, but chances are majority of you will never find a job that applies to that degree. This is just my opinion, but it appears to me that the only valuable college degrees are ones that educate you in a highly technical area of expertise such as engineering, computer systems, and medical fields. It just seems to me that is what the world is wanting from college grads. Today we have our career fair at Tech I've heard out of the 130ish companies in attendance probably 80% are engineering related. This could be because we are a well known engineering school or it could be a reflection of what employers need these days. Just a thought.

There was one on campus at UNT yesterday with 200 employers (if not more), just for the College of Business. Most of the jobs were accounting, tech based or analytics. Very little in the way of simple entry jobs to join the corporate machine. Most of those are your standard intern postions in the various functional departments. In comparison, the College of Arts and Sciences will host a job fair soon that will have well less than 100 participants. Why is there so fewer recruiters?

People complain about finding jobs when they get out, but my discipline has had 98% placement for the past 5 years. Even in the front of the economic slide when jobs for new grads got real scarce due to the glut of avalailbe experince talent, my departmetn faired very well. Most of the analytical based departments maintain a very high employment and hire rate.

The issue is not that college is a scam, but instead people are foolish enough to think that they can receive a degree in a field with not great demand and get a job they love and get paid a lot of money. You normally only get to pick two in that setup, sometimes only one.

Maybe it is more of an function of the current generation of college student than a problem of the current colleges. To many people want to get through college easily instead of putting it through the grind of doing something hard. If there is a demand by the students for easier degrees, then the university will provide the classes for them. Enrollment rarely dictates degree choice.

University life is priceless. Get busy livin or get busy dyin. I dont let myself get bogged down here.

(09-27-2012 09:20 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The reason I think most young adults don't start out at a JUCO is because they want their independence from their father and/or mother ASAP. The quickest way to achieve that by going to a four year college in year one.
As for trade schools, IMO, more businesses tend to look more favorable on a college degree than one from a trade school, even though the graduate from the trade school may be more of a better fit at the position than the college graduate. As for Greek organizations, it's just a way to socialize in college, and little else. But some girls are so arrogant, they won't date any guy who's not in a fraternity, so being in a fraternity helps a little bit there, I guess.

Yeah, I get that angle but kids may soon enough realize it may be best to swallow their pride and stay under their watch or at the very least go live with another relative for a change of pace and scenery if they can't stand their parents.

Obviously the Greek organizations are a way to socialize and I certainly get the networking aspect of it but for one, not only can you be brought in illegally () but, as is only natural with young people who sometimes regret it later, you have the wrong focus in life if you're worried about the social status being in a fraternity will give you and the attention girls will give you for it.

(09-27-2012 09:55 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  University life is priceless.

Agree with that too.

And everything I've experienced in life since starting at Tulsa 15 years ago is a spin off from that fortunate choice.

A scam? Not really, the problem is that so many companies demand a college education where one should not be needed.

There are other problems though, even in fields where a degree is required. Gone are the days of a Mechanical or Aerospace engineer getting a job right out of college simply because he has a 3.0. I have a friend who works for UCF as part of Lockheed's recruitment pipeline. He has a stack of ~40 resumes of people with GPAs between 3.0-3.6 and can't place any of them. It has gotten that competitive. I'm an electrical engineer, and had trouble getting a job out of school (and am having trouble finding a new one, but that has more to do with the current political climate and the direction my career has gone). Partly, the trouble is because companies don't want to train any one new. They want people with 3+ years of experience. And with a large percentage of the workforce approaching retirement age...

Anyway...I'm getting a little off subject. I got my money's worth from my degree. My sister has not. She went to FSU, and got her degree in Psychology. She tutors special needs children. Does her psychology degree really help her with her tutoring? From my conversations with her...not really.

Right now the top majors awarded at UCF are as follow:
Psychology
Nursing Generic
Finance
Elementary Education
Hospitality Management

Do all of the people taking these degree really need them for what they will end up doing (nursing being an exception)? Not really.

(09-27-2012 09:55 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  University life is priceless. Get busy livin or get busy dyin. I dont let myself get bogged down here.

I'll admit that university life is very fun and you can create memories to last a lifetime. But you can still have lots of fun and meet new people if you just get out enough and explore some. For example, my local library has all kinds of events for the community such as famous authors who stop by, the community college a mile away has interesting events like an international festival that brought many people out and you learned lots of stuff. You can always attend events held at schools without actually going there like lectures by a professor or visitor and meet interesting people that way. And of course, while it would be more expensive than being a student, you can still attend sporting events, at a school or otherwise, without actually being enrolled.

While college can be like going to a brand new high school without parental supervision, if you try hard enough you can still create memories that last a lifetime without being bogged down in debt. As a matter of fact, it's almost better to get in the routine of working and taking care of bills earlier especially if your parents are your financial safety net should you come up short every now and then and it stops you from feeling like you're in a high school like environment, at least for the smallest schools.

(09-27-2012 09:22 AM)RonBurgundy Wrote:  College is a scam or not a scam simply based off what YOU choose to major in. I'm a civil engineering major and the only way I could become a civil engineer is through a 4 year accredited degree. The problem with college is that a large amount of college degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on. No offense if you're a history, art, music, or sociology major, but chances are majority of you will never find a job that applies to that degree. This is just my opinion, but it appears to me that the only valuable college degrees are ones that educate you in a highly technical area of expertise such as engineering, computer systems, and medical fields. It just seems to me that is what the world is wanting from college grads. Today we have our career fair at Tech I've heard out of the 130ish companies in attendance probably 80% are engineering related. This could be because we are a well known engineering school or it could be a reflection of what employers need these days. Just a thought.

Depends what you mean by applies to your degree I suppose.

I was a history major. Most of the classes revolve around research and writing.

While I don't research or write about history today, I do write for a living and make as much or more as many of the people I know that majored in business.

(09-27-2012 05:53 AM)Chappy Wrote:  College is not a scam, but the mentality that was pushed for the last two decades - that EVERYONE should go to college - was a bad idea.

For profit colleges are an ABSOLUTE scam. I can't believe we haven't shut down those debt-forming traps.

By making college a "necessity", you are basically making it like a HS diploma. Now you can't get an entry-level admin job, without one. That is dumb.

We should focus on all student being able to graduate HS (without dumbing it down). Some people should not continue their education, and that is OK. Some people should only go to a Community College. There are MANY jobs that you can get with a two-year that will vastly outpay one from a four-year, and WITHOUT the debt that is associated with it.

I really would like to see a purge of higher education. There is too much money going around, and not enough results.

I have not found any events, groups, clubs that offer the vast opportunities to meet so many people from so many different walks of life that several years on a residential campus provides. There's an entirely different openness to new experiences and human beings on a university campus just isn't as prevalent in the "real world".

I imagine I'd look at it differently had I gone to juco then commuted to TU for two years.

(09-27-2012 10:35 AM)TUBballJunkie Wrote:  I have not found any events, groups, clubs that offer the vast opportunities to meet so many people from so many different walks of life that several years on a residential campus provides. There's an entirely different openness to new experiences and human beings on a university campus just isn't as prevalent in the "real world".

I imagine I'd look at it differently had I gone to juco then commuted to TU for two years.

But what if you went to TU, and failed out? A lot of HS grads aren't ready for college like that. They need to use stepping stones.