(08-26-2012 12:49 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:28 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:04 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  D@ng paw, ga southern ranked higher than 90% of the sun belt

I told yall not to bring up that Sagarin SH%$

FCS teams LOVE To bring sagarin ratings and be like OH look are are ranked higher...Sagarin is a joke.

Sorry it doesn't work in your favor, SB homers would be the first to tout sagarin if it ever made their conference look relevant on the national stag

Not a chance. I couldn't care less where Sagarin ranks us, be it 10th or 110th. The intermingling of divisions invalidates the entire system. You won't see me reference it in a positive light at any point.

(08-26-2012 12:12 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  While I certainly agree that there isn't a rigid totem pole, there is a totem pole of sorts, a caste system, tiers...whatever you prefer and certainly within every conference there are programs that exist in different castes tiers or levels of the totem pole, Vandy certainly doesn't belong anywhere near the top despite being in the best conference. Having said that wherever you put them in pecking order they have an asterisk by their name due to their conference. Because of the resources they have and their conference affiliation they can fast track to a higher tier, look at Stanfords meteoric rise they're a program that just six seasons ago went 1-11 and scored 10 points or less in 9 of their 12 games. Stanford had occasional blips of success over the years, but they're not a program terribly dissimilar to Vandy, if Vandy were able to land a player like Andrew Luck, I think you could certainly see them have a run like Stanford has had, I believe they've found the coach to transform that program so long as they can hold onto him.

You said it yourself, each division has its own strata and deservedly so. I'd describe it as a row of ladders side by side(I'm only going to use DII, FCS and FBS for the purposes of simplicity, but you could certainly extrapolate it out further) the DII ladder goes from zero to ten feet, next to it the FCS ladder goes from eight feet to seventeen feet, and next to that the FBS ladder goes from fifteen feet to twenty four feet. Now this doesn't necessarily mean the bottom of FBS is always at fifteen and the top of FCS is always at seventeen, those are just the relative floors and ceilings, its certainly possible that on a particularly strong year in FBS even the cellar dwellers managed to climb to 18 or in a particularly weak year in FCS no one managed to climb higher than 14, but on most years there is an overlap, but that doesn't change the fact that we're still on separate ladders and as long as you're on a particular ladder you can only climb or fall so far. That's why I don't believe in intermingling, we exist on different "ladders" with different circumstances. The problem with sagarin, rpi, et al. is that they put rankings into a one game vacuum and because within that one game vacuum Georgia Southern or App State might be better than any given Sun Belt school, myopic fans take these rankings and try to run with them. If Georgia Southern, App State or whomever(insert top tier FCS team) was able to play every team in the Sun Belt in a one game vacuum, with no games before, no games after, no injuries, etc. they very well might come out .500 maybe better in some years when the FCS team is particularly strong and it's a down year in the conference, but that's not how football works, and if App State or Georgia Southern or whomever were to play a full Sun Belt schedule, they'd be lucky to come out .500, no matter how strong they are or how weak the conference is.

I think you underestimate the ability of top FCS teams to compete in more than just a one game vacuum.

Remember, the FCS playoffs operate as a 1 and done. App played 15 games per year, 2005, 2006 and 2007. The hardest games always come at the very end of the season, when injuries and fatigue are at their highest. The 2007 App team that beat Deleware and Joe Flacco in the National Championship was 2x better than the 2007 team that beat Michigan in Sept. Shoot, against Michigan, our senior OC was out injured, and our starting Safety was suspended. We started a true freshmen center, 4 months out of high school.

Playing in the 1 and done playoffs, 15 games straight with 1 bye week, is much much harder than becoming bowl eligable 3 times in a row. Winning a National Championship 3 years in a row is nothing short of a amazing.

6-6 makes you Bowl eligible, and you get weeks, if not a month, to heal up.

(08-26-2012 12:49 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:28 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:04 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  D@ng paw, ga southern ranked higher than 90% of the sun belt

I told yall not to bring up that Sagarin SH%$

FCS teams LOVE To bring sagarin ratings and be like OH look are are ranked higher...Sagarin is a joke.

Sorry it doesn't work in your favor, SB homers would be the first to tout sagarin if it ever made their conference look relevant on the national stag

Come on man, no one is doubting that GSU has a storied FCS program but you're just trolling. All the people on this board have watched their teams through ups and downs over the past 12 years and understand how incredibly cutthroat and difficult winning is at the FBS level is. Your view that 22 more scholarships would immediately elevate GSU over sun belt programs is unrealistic and I wonder why I even took the time to feed a troll...

A winning season and a thrilling bowl game has done more for UL in one year than any amount of FCS championships you have accumulated, that speaks for itself.

(08-26-2012 12:57 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:49 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:28 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:04 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  D@ng paw, ga southern ranked higher than 90% of the sun belt

I told yall not to bring up that Sagarin SH%$

FCS teams LOVE To bring sagarin ratings and be like OH look are are ranked higher...Sagarin is a joke.

Sorry it doesn't work in your favor, SB homers would be the first to tout sagarin if it ever made their conference look relevant on the national stag

Not a chance. I couldn't care less where Sagarin ranks us, be it 10th or 110th. The intermingling of divisions invalidates the entire system. You won't see me reference it in a positive light at any point.

Same with RPI ratings too I guess?


http://realtimerpi.com/football/ncaaf_Men.html

(08-26-2012 01:01 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:12 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  While I certainly agree that there isn't a rigid totem pole, there is a totem pole of sorts, a caste system, tiers...whatever you prefer and certainly within every conference there are programs that exist in different castes tiers or levels of the totem pole, Vandy certainly doesn't belong anywhere near the top despite being in the best conference. Having said that wherever you put them in pecking order they have an asterisk by their name due to their conference. Because of the resources they have and their conference affiliation they can fast track to a higher tier, look at Stanfords meteoric rise they're a program that just six seasons ago went 1-11 and scored 10 points or less in 9 of their 12 games. Stanford had occasional blips of success over the years, but they're not a program terribly dissimilar to Vandy, if Vandy were able to land a player like Andrew Luck, I think you could certainly see them have a run like Stanford has had, I believe they've found the coach to transform that program so long as they can hold onto him.

You said it yourself, each division has its own strata and deservedly so. I'd describe it as a row of ladders side by side(I'm only going to use DII, FCS and FBS for the purposes of simplicity, but you could certainly extrapolate it out further) the DII ladder goes from zero to ten feet, next to it the FCS ladder goes from eight feet to seventeen feet, and next to that the FBS ladder goes from fifteen feet to twenty four feet. Now this doesn't necessarily mean the bottom of FBS is always at fifteen and the top of FCS is always at seventeen, those are just the relative floors and ceilings, its certainly possible that on a particularly strong year in FBS even the cellar dwellers managed to climb to 18 or in a particularly weak year in FCS no one managed to climb higher than 14, but on most years there is an overlap, but that doesn't change the fact that we're still on separate ladders and as long as you're on a particular ladder you can only climb or fall so far. That's why I don't believe in intermingling, we exist on different "ladders" with different circumstances. The problem with sagarin, rpi, et al. is that they put rankings into a one game vacuum and because within that one game vacuum Georgia Southern or App State might be better than any given Sun Belt school, myopic fans take these rankings and try to run with them. If Georgia Southern, App State or whomever(insert top tier FCS team) was able to play every team in the Sun Belt in a one game vacuum, with no games before, no games after, no injuries, etc. they very well might come out .500 maybe better in some years when the FCS team is particularly strong and it's a down year in the conference, but that's not how football works, and if App State or Georgia Southern or whomever were to play a full Sun Belt schedule, they'd be lucky to come out .500, no matter how strong they are or how weak the conference is.

I think you underestimate the ability of top FCS teams to compete in more than just a one game vacuum.

Remember, the FCS playoffs operate as a 1 and done. App played 15 games per year, 2005, 2006 and 2007. The hardest games always come at the very end of the season, when injuries and fatigue are at their highest. The 2007 App team that beat Deleware and Joe Flacco in the National Championship was 2x better than the 2007 team that beat Michigan in Sept. Shoot, against Michigan, our senior OC was out injured, and our starting Safety was suspended. We started a true freshmen center, 4 months out of high school.

Playing in the 1 and done playoffs, 15 games straight with 1 bye week, is much much harder than becoming bowl eligable 3 times in a row. Winning a National Championship 3 years in a row is nothing short of a amazing.

6-6 makes you Bowl eligable, and you get weeks, if not a month, to heal up.

And in each of those games, you're playing against teams with 63 predominantly FCS athletes, not 85 predominantly FBS athletes.

(08-26-2012 12:55 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm losing my patience with Georgia Southern fans who think we give one hot damn about them or FCS in general. Posting sagarin rankings, fcs coaches polls, or results from FCS games will be viewed as flaming and warnings will be issued. If you don't like it, you are free to submit a complaint which I will review and file away...

Complaint Department

Lol at this, no ga southern or app state person posted the OP, it was someone from your conference, sorry the op makes your conference look like a short bus full of redheads

(08-26-2012 12:48 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:38 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  Fact is the teams in the SBC has more Big time FBS wins than either App State or Ga Southern....No moral victories please. Your good game with Bama means nothing to me....TROY has "good" games with SEC teams pretty much every year...

App did beat a team that finished #13. The Sun Belt has never beaten a team that finished in the top 25. You may have something on Ga Southern, but not App.

Again... SBC teams have beaten ranked opponents Before.... App state can't touch our FBS wins much less Troys

I'll say this. FCS teams might luck up and beat an FBS team once in a while, the same way we might hang in there with SEC teams and beat one every once and a while. That doesn't mean the SBC is close to the SEC, nor does it mean FCS is close to FBS. A few things occur when a SBC team upsets an SEC team:

1) We almost never get their A game. We usually get their C and D game. But we always bring our A++ game.

2) SEC teams play through a rough SEC schedule, SBC teams do not. We don't get beat up as bad during the regular season. If any of our teams lucks up and beats an SEC team, they would likely go 0-8, or 1-7 in a full SEC schedule.

3) Now apply that to the same FCS vs FBS scenario. You get our D game, and we get to play your A game. When App State beat Michigan, they got Michigan's D game, and App brought their A++ game. If ASU had been a conference game, or was competing with them for the national title, App would have gotten Michigan's A game, and you probably would have been blown out. The year after, when LSU had saw what happened to Michigan, they brought their A game. They weren't going to let App do that again. (But hey, it was a GREAT win wasn't it? Something to be proud of. My team never beat any Top 5 teams. Enjoy it )

I do think in a few short years App State and GSU could have been SBC powerhouses is they had been added, but not right away because right now there really is a difference between FCS and FBS.

(08-26-2012 01:13 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:55 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm losing my patience with Georgia Southern fans who think we give one hot damn about them or FCS in general. Posting sagarin rankings, fcs coaches polls, or results from FCS games will be viewed as flaming and warnings will be issued. If you don't like it, you are free to submit a complaint which I will review and file away...

Complaint Department

Lol at this, no ga southern or app state person posted the OP, it was someone from your conference, sorry the op makes your conference look like a short bus full of redheads

We don't look like anything because no one takes sagarin seriously, furthermore I know who posted the original post, but the thread would have never made it past one page if it weren't for FCS tools.

(08-26-2012 01:15 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I'll say this. FCS teams might luck up and beat an FBS team once in a while, the same way we might hang in there with SEC teams and beat one every once and a while. That doesn't mean the SBC is close to the SEC, nor does it mean FCS is close to FBS. A few things occur when a SBC team upsets an SEC team:

1) We almost never get their A game. We usually get their C and D game. But we always bring our A++ game.

2) SEC teams play through a rough SEC schedule, SBC teams do not. We don't get beat up as bad during the regular season. If any of our teams lucks up and beats an SEC team, they would likely go 0-8, or 1-7 in a full SEC schedule.

3) Now apply that to the same FCS vs FBS scenario. You get our D game, and we get to play your A game. When App State beat Michigan, they got Michigan's D game, and App brought their A++ game. If ASU had been a conference game, or was competing with them for the national title, App would have gotten Michigan's A game, and you probably would have been blown out. The year after, when LSU had saw what happened to Michigan, they brought their A game. They weren't going to let App do that again. (But hey, it was a GREAT win wasn't it? Something to be proud of. My team never beat any Top 5 teams. Enjoy it )

I do think in a few short years App State and GSU could have been SBC powerhouses is they had been added, but not right away because right now there really is a difference between FCS and FBS.

Good post...

(08-26-2012 01:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 01:13 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:55 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm losing my patience with Georgia Southern fans who think we give one hot damn about them or FCS in general. Posting sagarin rankings, fcs coaches polls, or results from FCS games will be viewed as flaming and warnings will be issued. If you don't like it, you are free to submit a complaint which I will review and file away...

Complaint Department

Lol at this, no ga southern or app state person posted the OP, it was someone from your conference, sorry the op makes your conference look like a short bus full of redheads

We don't look like anything because no one takes sagarin seriously, furthermore I know who posted the original post, but the thread would have never made it past one page if it weren't for FCS tools.

The first post from FCS ga state, Panama

(08-26-2012 01:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  And in each of those games, you're playing against teams with 63 predominantly FCS athletes, not 85 predominantly FBS athletes.

Armanti Edwards, Dexter Jackson, Daniel Kilgore, Mark Legree, Corey Lynch, Brian Quick, DJ Smith, Marquess Murrell, Matt Dodge, Jason Hunter.

10 NFL players from our 3 NC seasons. How many Sun Belt teams put an average of 3 per year in the NFL?

The ones in bold were all on our 2007 team.

Since 2008, App State has had 7 NFL players to ECU's 6.

Three were drafted in 2010 alone.

2011, Brian Quick was the first pick of the 2nd round, and Travaris Cadet leads the Saints in catches and yards for the preseason. Deandre Presley will make it with the Chargers.

This lack of talent argument is garbage. This doesnt even include the other teams in the Champ games, with Flacco, Ihedigbo, and countless others, Nor the guys that went to the CFL or indoor.

lol

(08-26-2012 01:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 01:13 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:55 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm losing my patience with Georgia Southern fans who think we give one hot damn about them or FCS in general. Posting sagarin rankings, fcs coaches polls, or results from FCS games will be viewed as flaming and warnings will be issued. If you don't like it, you are free to submit a complaint which I will review and file away...

Complaint Department

Lol at this, no ga southern or app state person posted the OP, it was someone from your conference, sorry the op makes your conference look like a short bus full of redheads

We don't look like anything because no one takes sagarin seriously, furthermore I know who posted the original post, but the thread would have never made it past one page if it weren't for FCS tools.

small tool syndrome..

Z

(08-26-2012 01:25 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 01:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  And in each of those games, you're playing against teams with 63 predominantly FCS athletes, not 85 predominantly FBS athletes.

Armanti Edwards, Dexter Jackson, Daniel Kilgore, Mark Legree, Corey Lynch, Brian Quick, DJ Smith, Marquess Murrell, Matt Dodge, Jason Hunter.

10 NFL players from our 3 NC seasons. How many Sun Belt teams put an average of 3 per year in the NFL?

The ones in bold were all on our 2007 team.

Since 2008, App State has had 7 players drafted to ECU's 6, even more made it FA.

Three were drafted in 2010 alone.

2011, Brian Quick was the first pick of the 2nd round, and Travaris Cadet leads the Saints in catches and yards for the preseason. Deandre Presley will make it with the Chargers.

This lack of talent argument is garbage. This doesnt even include the other teams in the Champ games, with Flacco, Ihedigbo, and countless others, Nor the guys that went to the CFL or indoor.

Ahem....You might want to research Troy on that one....

Our Current NFL players
DeMarcus Ware
Leodis McKelvin
Osi Umenyiora
Sherrod Martin
Leonard Wheeler
Brannon Condren
Elbert Mack
Gary Banks
Trevor Ford
Dion Gales
Steve McLendon
Lawrence Tynes
Levi Brown
Cameron Sheffield
Jerrel Jernigan
Jonathan Massaquoi
Jorrick Calvin
Stanley Arukwe
James Brown
Bear Bryant

(08-26-2012 01:25 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  Armanti Edwards, Dexter Jackson, Daniel Kilgore, Mark Legree, Corey Lynch, Brian Quick, DJ Smith, Marquess Murrell, Matt Dodge, Jason Hunter.

10 NFL players from our 3 NC seasons. How many Sun Belt teams put an average of 3 per year in the NFL?


This lack of talent argument is garbage. This doesnt even include the other teams in the Champ games, with Flacco, Ihedigbo, and countless others, Nor the guys that went to the CFL or indoor.

I didn't say you don't have talent, clearly you do, but you lose on depth and on aggregate talent.

(08-26-2012 01:25 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 01:04 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  And in each of those games, you're playing against teams with 63 predominantly FCS athletes, not 85 predominantly FBS athletes.

Armanti Edwards, Dexter Jackson, Daniel Kilgore, Mark Legree, Corey Lynch, Brian Quick, DJ Smith, Marquess Murrell, Matt Dodge, Jason Hunter.

10 NFL players from our 3 NC seasons. How many Sun Belt teams put an average of 3 per year in the NFL?

The ones in bold were all on our 2007 team.

Since 2008, App State has had 7 players drafted to ECU's 6, even more made it FA.

Three were drafted in 2010 alone.

2011, Brian Quick was the first pick of the 2nd round, and Travaris Cadet leads the Saints in catches and yards for the preseason. Deandre Presley will make it with the Chargers.

This lack of talent argument is garbage. This doesnt even include the other teams in the Champ games, with Flacco, Ihedigbo, and countless others, Nor the guys that went to the CFL or indoor.

well dang. you guys should go fbs.

(08-26-2012 01:27 PM)zeebart21 Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 01:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 01:13 PM)ATLGSUEAGLE Wrote:  

(08-26-2012 12:55 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm losing my patience with Georgia Southern fans who think we give one hot damn about them or FCS in general. Posting sagarin rankings, fcs coaches polls, or results from FCS games will be viewed as flaming and warnings will be issued. If you don't like it, you are free to submit a complaint which I will review and file away...

Complaint Department

Lol at this, no ga southern or app state person posted the OP, it was someone from your conference, sorry the op makes your conference look like a short bus full of redheads

We don't look like anything because no one takes sagarin seriously, furthermore I know who posted the original post, but the thread would have never made it past one page if it weren't for FCS tools.

small tool syndrome..

Z

What's lamar looking like this year, Z? I think yall woodshed them. I laughed when someone said App State would be way better than UL (not exact words, but UL would beat them by 2 TDs I think, 3 if you brought your A game to match theirs). Looking forward to seeing yall at home this year, Z. You coming down?

(08-26-2012 01:27 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  Ahem....You might want to research Troy on that one....

I guess you missed the "drafted" part. And if you looked, you'd see App State's recent draft numbers very closely resemble Troys.

Troy is supposed to be class of the Sun Belt right?

Goes as follows

SEC
.
Big 12
PAC 12
Big 10
.
ACC
.
A-Independents
Big East
.
Mountain West
CUSA
SBC/ MAC
WAC
.
.
SoCon and other FCS