(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

(06-28-2012 01:17 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

Yes, great news that Holder's department armed Mexican drug cartels who have slaughtered tens of thousands of Mexicans.

It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.
Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

So the solution is a sting operations that introduces many more guns into that environment, without any means to track them?

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

How'd those guns get into Mexico? Strong border? Mexico wants a weak border so their illegals and drugs can come here while our money flows back to Mexiland. Open borders means **** moves in both directions. **** them.

And if weak gun laws are the cause of all Mexico's problems then how come these guns aren't killing thousands all across our country and Canada? Maybe we're more civilized? Well........ some of us

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

So, you're kind of admitting that most likely, the purpose of this F & F program was to get our 'weak gun laws' changed and "strengthened?" Your talking points seem to all converge there, you know.

(06-28-2012 01:17 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

why does it damage the GOPers? Do the great unwashed masses have much love for Eric Holder?

(06-28-2012 01:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So the solution is a sting operations that introduces many more guns into that environment, without any means to track them?

According to the Fortune investigation, that never happened. The F&F solution was wiretapping the drug cartels.

The solution we should all be talking about is stricter gun laws.

Quote:How'd those guns get into Mexico? Strong border? Mexico wants a weak border so their illegals and drugs can come here while our money flows back to Mexiland. Open borders means **** moves in both directions. **** them.

And if weak gun laws are the cause of all Mexico's problems then how come these guns aren't killing thousands all across our country and Canada? Maybe we're more civilized? Well........ some of us

Shootings are a big problem here, and Chicago is a prime example. It's worse in Mexico because that's where the underground suppliers are and they tend to compete amicably. 1920s Chicago is a great example.

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

So, let's throw even more guns into the mix.

******* brilliant.

Even Bush was smart enough to stop the program, when the sheer stupidity became apparent. What's Obama's excuse?

(06-28-2012 01:46 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

So, you're kind of admitting that most likely, the purpose of this F & F program was to get our 'weak gun laws' changed and "strengthened?" Your talking points seem to all converge there, you know.

No not at all. The purpose of F&F was to gather evidence of clear and convincing criminal intent, which under our weak laws is necessary to get a conviction. It had nothing to do with some grand anti 2nd Amendment scheme, which is crazy.

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

so the guns fired themselves? Max you are so worked up today... very angry. what's up little buddy?

(06-28-2012 01:48 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:17 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

why does it damage the GOPers? Do the great unwashed masses have much love for Eric Holder?

Because instead of trying to fix the economy the GOP House is playing a game of gotcha with the Justice Department.

(06-28-2012 01:48 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So the solution is a sting operations that introduces many more guns into that environment, without any means to track them?

According to the Fortune investigation, that never happened. The F&F solution was wiretapping the drug cartels.
The solution we should all be talking about is stricter gun laws.

Quote:How'd those guns get into Mexico? Strong border? Mexico wants a weak border so their illegals and drugs can come here while our money flows back to Mexiland. Open borders means **** moves in both directions. **** them.
And if weak gun laws are the cause of all Mexico's problems then how come these guns aren't killing thousands all across our country and Canada? Maybe we're more civilized? Well........ some of us

Shootings are a big problem here, and Chicago is a prime example. It's worse in Mexico because that's where the underground suppliers are and they tend to compete amicably. 1920s Chicago is a great example.

So, are you now doing this bit of quoting me and then adding other quotes from somebody else to make it look like you're quoting me just to irritate me?

OK, so if there were no actual guns involved in F&F and it was just about wiretaps, how did two "guns involved in F&F" manage to end up at the spot where the agent was killed? Or are you saying that didn't happen?

(06-28-2012 01:50 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:26 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's the weak gun laws which slaughtered those people.

Hundreds of guns flow out of Arizona because anyone over 18 can buy and sell guns like flapjacks. The ATF couldn't stop them even if they wanted to. You cons bash the ATF for not seizing guns, meanwhile supporting weak gun laws which prevent them from seizing guns. Make up your damned mind.

So, let's throw even more guns into the mix.

******* brilliant.

Even Bush was smart enough to stop the program, when the sheer stupidity became apparent. What's Obama's excuse?

For God's sake, that wasn't part of the F & F program. Read the Fortune investigation report.

(06-28-2012 01:48 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Shootings are a big problem here, and Chicago is a prime example. It's worse in Mexico because that's where the underground suppliers are and they tend to compete amicably. 1920s Chicago is a great example.

So those guns came from Arizona? Regional violence is more demographic related than anything else.

This is a serious quetion: In Chicago what is the murder rate in areas that are mostly middle/upper class working people? And now the lower class or inner city people? If Arizona had stronger gun laws would Chicago's murder rate drop?

(06-28-2012 01:52 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  OK, so if there were no actual guns involved in F&F and it was just about wiretaps, how did two "guns involved in F&F" manage to end up at the spot where the agent was killed? Or are you saying that didn't happen?

The Fortune report addresses this. Those guns were purchased by a F&F suspect, who the ATF wanted to arrest, but prosecutors wouldn't let them. They couldn't gather the evidence in time to seize the weapons or make the arrest, because the law was too weak and the prosecutor too unwilling.

(06-28-2012 01:51 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:48 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:17 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

why does it damage the GOPers? Do the great unwashed masses have much love for Eric Holder?

Because instead of trying to fix the economy the GOP House is playing a game of gotcha with the Justice Department.

all Holder has to do is turn over documents...

or be held in contempt.

or get fired by BO.

or "We the people" can fire BO


one way or the other Holder's time is about up.

(06-28-2012 01:51 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:48 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:17 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

why does it damage the GOPers? Do the great unwashed masses have much love for Eric Holder?

Because instead of trying to fix the economy the GOP House is playing a game of gotcha with the Justice Department.

Maybe someone should wake Harry Reid up and get the Senate busy doing something constructive.

(06-28-2012 01:56 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:51 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:48 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:17 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 01:15 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

Meaningless in a legal sense. Damaging to GOPers in a political sense. Great news.

why does it damage the GOPers? Do the great unwashed masses have much love for Eric Holder?

Because instead of trying to fix the economy the GOP House is playing a game of gotcha with the Justice Department.

all he has to do is turn over documents... that or be held in contempt.

or get fired by BO.

or "We the people" can fire BO


one way or the other Holder's time is about up.

He says the documents are part of an ongoing criminal investigation. If that's true then he should hold firm.