(04-17-2012 09:00 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  The fact remains that young gay kids have a very high suicide rate, and that is the issue we are trying to talk about here. Anything that is tried to help the situation faces conservative roadblock over their fear that gays might actually be able to come to grips with who they are and not live a life in denial.

One more time.

The more liberal our society has gotten, suicide rates among teens has risen. Why do you keep blaming conservatives?

(04-17-2012 09:26 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  And constant anti-gay rhetoric .

I don't think it's constant, global, universal, or anything like that. Some people don't accept it because it's the way they were raised, or maybe their religion frowns upon it, or whatever. But society as a whole doesn't speak negatively about merely being gay. We have TV shows featuring gay characters. And then there's always California. Need I say more?

BTW, I bet you didn't know my sister is gay.

Bullying should never be condoned but you can't expect it to just go away either. It is a matter of the school's failure to notice, the kid's parents failure to address it, the bullies and their parents, and the kid.

I was bullied on when I was in grade 7. One of the guys tightened a scarf around my neck. The teacher saw it, informed my dad, the vice-principal (MY MOM), his parents, and the school police officer (real Quebec City police). I freakin cried my eyes out over it and my dad told me that I could take it 2 ways: 1) Feel sorry for myself and lose a ton of self-esteem or 2) get tough right now. I chose 2 and he put me in wrestling practice the next week.

That was the best thing that's ever happened to me because, even though I often got my arse kicked, I was mentally tough. There's no better way to ward off bullies than to be so confident in yourself that they can't get to you.

The guys who mentioned that kids need to toughen up are right. It doesn't mean that they have to become that aggressive themselves; it's a mental thing. Let's face it no matter how much you're bullied as a child, it's going to be pretty sterile compared to adult life. The quicker you prepare mentally the less time bullies will have business with you.

(04-17-2012 09:30 PM)Paul M Wrote:  One more time.

The more liberal our society has gotten, suicide rates among teens has risen. Why do you keep blaming conservatives?

You've got some logical gaps there you might want to examine.

(04-17-2012 09:00 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  The fact remains that young gay kids have a very high suicide rate,

So do soldiers. Is that also the fault of conservatives.

Face it, when talking about suicide rates, somebody has to be #1, we can't all be tied for last.

(04-17-2012 09:32 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:30 PM)Paul M Wrote:  One more time.

The more liberal our society has gotten, suicide rates among teens has risen. Why do you keep blaming conservatives?

You've got some logical gaps there you might want to examine.

Where? He makes perfect sense to me.

(04-17-2012 09:33 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:00 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  The fact remains that young gay kids have a very high suicide rate,

So do soldiers. Is that also the fault of conservatives.

Well it was conservatives that I recall sending them off to die in a phony war, so... yeah.

(04-17-2012 09:32 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:30 PM)Paul M Wrote:  One more time.

The more liberal our society has gotten, suicide rates among teens has risen. Why do you keep blaming conservatives?

You've got some logical gaps there you might want to examine.

I'm merely filling in the gap you created.

(04-17-2012 09:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  That was the best thing that's ever happened to me because, even though I often got my arse kicked, I was mentally tough. There's no better way to ward off bullies than to be so confident in yourself that they can't get to you.

The guys who mentioned that kids need to toughen up are right. It doesn't mean that they have to become that aggressive themselves; it's a mental thing. Let's face it no matter how much you're bullied as a child, it's going to be pretty sterile compared to adult life. The quicker you prepare mentally the less time bullies will have business with you.

You mean not everyone's gonna like me for the special little snowflake I am?

(04-17-2012 09:26 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Can't the kids confide in their parents for help?

Sometimes not. They are embarrassed, or afraid of making the situation worse. And certain afraid of their parents suspecting they might be gay. They don't want their parents to have pity on them. A whole host of reasons.

And constant anti-gay rhetoric does not make it easier for kids who are gay to confide in their parents because they have no idea how their parents might react. Some parents react very very poorly.

No doubt the whole dynamic is sketchy at best. As parents...we just have to start very early and earn their trust. NEVER lie to them when they ask about YOUR feelings....and NEVER punish them for being honest with you. Let them pick the punishment. I always found that worked very well with my kid.

(04-17-2012 09:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  No doubt the whole dynamic is sketchy at best. As parents...we just have to start very early and earn their trust. NEVER lie to them when they ask about YOUR feelings....and NEVER punish them for being honest with you. Let them pick the punishment. I always found that worked very well with my kid.

I agree completely, it's a huge part of this problem.

(04-17-2012 09:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Bullying should never be condoned but you can't expect it to just go away either. It is a matter of the school's failure to notice, the kid's parents failure to address it, the bullies and their parents, and the kid.

I was bullied on when I was in grade 7. One of the guys tightened a scarf around my neck. The teacher saw it, informed my dad, the vice-principal (MY MOM), his parents, and the school police officer (real Quebec City police). I freakin cried my eyes out over it and my dad told me that I could take it 2 ways: 1) Feel sorry for myself and lose a ton of self-esteem or 2) get tough right now. I chose 2 and he put me in wrestling practice the next week.

That was the best thing that's ever happened to me because, even though I often got my arse kicked, I was mentally tough. There's no better way to ward off bullies than to be so confident in yourself that they can't get to you.

The guys who mentioned that kids need to toughen up are right. It doesn't mean that they have to become that aggressive themselves; it's a mental thing. Let's face it no matter how much you're bullied as a child, it's going to be pretty sterile compared to adult life. The quicker you prepare mentally the less time bullies will have business with you.

Yes...good observations. I have to say that my dad gave me the BAD advice. He told me to pick out the big guy in the group and bust him in the nose. I did it and got suspended from school.

(04-17-2012 09:34 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:33 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:00 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  The fact remains that young gay kids have a very high suicide rate,

So do soldiers. Is that also the fault of conservatives.

Well it was conservatives that I recall sending them off to die in a phony war, so... yeah.

You're out of your ******* mind. If you were my pet I'd put you to sleep.

(04-17-2012 09:47 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  You're out of your ******* mind. If you were my pet I'd put you to sleep.

I've got to use that line somehow at work tomorrow.

(04-17-2012 09:49 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:47 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  You're out of your ******* mind. If you were my pet I'd put you to sleep.

I've got to use that line somehow at work tomorrow.

I think my ex wife once said that to me.

About the bullying being because the boy was gay. It probably isn't because of rhetoric. Boys will pick on boys who don't act like boys. It's almost evolutionary. Is it right? No it's completely wrong and in a perfect world it would be stopped. But, even with every parent in the world saying that their child shouldn't pick on someone because they are different, there are still going to be kids that notice perceived short-comings and exploit them.

The only way to institutionally stop bullying is to completely neuter interactions with people from the earliest of ages. Sports, tests, socializing, etc all create situations where someone could be considered different and could/will lead to bullying so you can't do any of those in school or anywhere in life. (Note sports because terms like you throw, run, bat, etc like a girl is meant to distinguish between "real" boys and the not so.) Would you rather do that or teach your kids how to successfully rise above their problems while teaching them a life skill?

(04-17-2012 02:03 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  This is all a bunch of BS. When I grew up we ALL got bullied and all it took was a reason - any reason. We learned to deal with it and then it became our turn to be the bullies, and on and on it went, no one committed suicide because they were fat and got picked on, or were gay, or were Jewish (they got slammed) Today kids are so sheltered, so still in the womb, so protected from anything that might cause them to take a hit to their self esteem, that they grow up not knowing how to handle what 6 year olds used to handle 50 years ago.

Gentlemen, the herd just got a little thinner and what remains is a little stronger.

+1

Good F'ing Riddance. I'm sick of hearing about these pansies. Why give the bullies exactly what they were looking for? Prove them wrong and beat them at their own game. No, sorry that would take too much work. I will just copy the other whiny gay kids and kill myself. I don't see the same thing happening with gay girls. Maybe they are not as sensitive.

P.S. I think someone should bully Anderson Cooper into doing what his brother did so we don't have to hear about this crap anymore.

Nomad, you're making a lot of good points in this thread.

(04-17-2012 09:40 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 09:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  That was the best thing that's ever happened to me because, even though I often got my arse kicked, I was mentally tough. There's no better way to ward off bullies than to be so confident in yourself that they can't get to you.

The guys who mentioned that kids need to toughen up are right. It doesn't mean that they have to become that aggressive themselves; it's a mental thing. Let's face it no matter how much you're bullied as a child, it's going to be pretty sterile compared to adult life. The quicker you prepare mentally the less time bullies will have business with you.

You mean not everyone's gonna like me for the special little snowflake I am?

No sir, that's why you joined the Navy.

(04-17-2012 07:15 PM)Max Power Wrote:  THREAD SUMMARY:

-Liberals: Hey Christians/conservatards, stop encouraging bullying of gay kids
-Cons: The Bible doesn't say to bully gay kids
-Liberals: It doesn't have to say that you idiots, you're denouncing gays in the public sphere which encourages their bullying
-Cons: But you approve of aborting clumps of cells

Well you've got the first line right. In typial "tolerant" fashion the left troller started by trying to tie this suicide to Christianity...

Max do you really believe that the kids who made a face book page and tortured this young boy were really trying to convert him? More to the point when I asked one of the trollers for the scriptural bases that conservatives were using to excuse public humiliation they sunk into a corner on the issue.

I find it particularly telling that your answer to the bullying problem is the end of freedom of expression and the end of freedom of religion. You Christian folks can meet in your basements but don't you dare sully the light of day with something that Max Power, or a homosexual might find offensive.

And who the hell brought up Abortion.. I did not see that but if they did Ill be the first to say that it has no part of this discussion.