It can happen, but they have to be undefeated with no other non-AQ in the running also going undefeated...staying undefeated is hard to do in any conference and I think the MAC has too much parity for that to happen...with Boise, Utah and TCU they were so much stronger than the rest of the conference year-in-year-out...and generally, we are not able to survive our non-conference schedule, so its usually a moot point by week 3 of the season...even then, the MAC title guarantees that only 1 MAC squad can even hope to be undefeated when the smoke clears (which used to save the B10 when they didn't have a title game and 2 possible undefeated at the end)...

Also, if its going to happen, it needs to be now before the "new" BCS begins, because its almost a guarantee that top bowl access will be further restricted for non-AQ's (especially after TCU spoiled the party in the Rose Bowl-that's has to be part of the reason for the whole Alliance - and attempt to still get some piece, no matter how small, of the pie)...

(04-09-2012 05:40 PM)wleakr Wrote:  It can happen, but they have to be undefeated with no other non-AQ in the running also going undefeated...staying undefeated is hard to do in any conference and I think the MAC has too much parity for that to happen...with Boise, Utah and TCU they were so much stronger than the rest of the conference year-in-year-out...and generally, we are not able to survive our non-conference schedule, so its usually a moot point by week 3 of the season...even then, the MAC title guarantees that only 1 MAC squad can even hope to be undefeated when the smoke clears (which used to save the B10 when they didn't have a title game and 2 possible undefeated at the end)...

Also, if its going to happen, it needs to be now before the "new" BCS begins, because its almost a guarantee that top bowl access will be further restricted for non-AQ's (especially after TCU spoiled the party in the Rose Bowl-that's has to be part of the reason for the whole Alliance - and attempt to still get some piece, no matter how small, of the pie)...

Actually, due to the unbalanced divisions it's possible for two teams from the East to be undefeated (theoretically) with one losing the tie-breaker to the other. If there was an undefeated team in the West, then two undefeated teams would square off in the MACC and only one would be left standing. The undefeated team that lost the tie-breaker would be undefeated team #2.

A weird twist would be if the West champ was not undefeated going into the Championship game but defeated the undefeated East champ, leaving the only MAC undefeated team as a non division winning/Championship game non-participant.

Back to point, an undefeated MAC Champ can absolutely finish above another undefeated non-AQ champ, depending on the quality of wins both OOC and conference games.

(04-09-2012 05:11 PM)EA3 Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 04:40 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  CMU has the schedule to do it this year but neither the talent nor hype. A non-AQ team needs some hype going in to the year. When Boise had Kellen Moore returning last year and started high in the rankings they can maintain their standing by winning. They would have been in a BCS game if they had beaten TCU and won their conference.

Boise gets way more national respect than any MAC team. Like it or not, their history of playing with the big boys and not laying an egg gives them an advantage amongst the people who decide the at large teams. They are a proven commodity. 12+ years running.

The question is about MAC teams....not mountain west or conf USA teams that go undefeated.

You really think cmu has the schedule to do it? I disagree completely, because of multiple reasons.

Honestly, Ohio has the schedule. One BCS team and nothing else overwhelming. Boise goes to BCS games by winning their one game against a top 15 team and then attempting to run the table against mediocrity. Their 2nd run in with ranked opposition has led them to field goal failure in the last two seasons.

Fresno State tried the loading up the non-conference schedule. It got them a memorable loss to Reggie Bush and USC one night and not much else.

(04-09-2012 06:00 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  Actually, due to the unbalanced divisions it's possible for two teams from the East to be undefeated (theoretically) with one losing the tie-breaker to the other. If there was an undefeated team in the West, then two undefeated teams would square off in the MACC and only one would be left standing. The undefeated team that lost the tie-breaker would be undefeated team #2.

A weird twist would be if the West champ was not undefeated going into the Championship game but defeated the undefeated East champ, leaving the only MAC undefeated team as a non division winning/Championship game non-participant.

Back to point, an undefeated MAC Champ can absolutely finish above another undefeated non-AQ champ, depending on the quality of wins both OOC and conference games.

You're right in that scenario could happen, but I would say its less likely than having a single MAC team go undefeated...but the unbalanced divisions make it possible...again with the parity within the MAC and the need for it to happen NOW (before a change to BCS)...I just glanced at the schedule and only 4 teams in the East play 5 division games (vice 6) - Akron, Buffalo, Kent St and UMass, not to mention that the East has gotten hit pretty hard in recent years...

But I can't fight your logic; it COULD happen!!!

On your other point, the only non-AQ undefeated that I think we could be ahead of is possibly the SunBelt and the WAC...but if all three of these conferences have undefeated's in the running, I think we all should be VERY afraid...lol...

(04-09-2012 06:28 PM)bronconick Wrote:  Honestly, Ohio has the schedule. One BCS team and nothing else overwhelming. Boise goes to BCS games by winning their one game against a top 15 team and then attempting to run the table against mediocrity. Their 2nd run in with ranked opposition has led them to field goal failure in the last two seasons.

Fresno State tried the loading up the non-conference schedule. It got them a memorable loss to Reggie Bush and USC one night and not much else.

Yep, that's true, but few others have been able to do it...since the MAC and WAC have had some close bowl games, I'm not convinced that all of the WAC is mediocre...Boise just got too strong for the rest of the conference (some make liken it to Marshall in the MAC in late nineties)...and its tough to stay undefeated regardless of team or conference...even the weakest team is going to give you there best game to try to knock you down...

To get a fix on how unlikely it is, how often in the last 30 years did a MAC team go undefeated going into the bowl season?

(04-09-2012 06:57 PM)axeme Wrote:  To get a fix on how unlikely it is, how often in the last 30 years did a MAC team go undefeated going into the bowl season?

There is actually a pretty good Wiki page on undefeated squads...1971 Toledo, '73 Miami(OH), '99 Marshall ('74 Miami(OH) and '95 Toledo were undefeated with a tie)...but these are final records, not what they had going into a bowl, however I doubt it would change all that much plus this is a different era of football with the BCS (and you can no longer have tie games) and the MAC was happy to have a single team bowl at all (a top tier bowl was out of the question); the Motor City Bowl was the start of us growing some football legs...

So once in 30 years, and that was Marshall 13 years ago. You have to go back another 26 years to find the next. That would be almost 40 years since a current MAC team went undefeated.

It's good we are working out all the possible scenarios for the next time it happens...

(04-09-2012 07:19 PM)axeme Wrote:  It's good we are working out all the possible scenarios for the next time it happens...

2012.

(04-09-2012 09:48 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Apart from our two returning QBs what is the basis for the optimism surrounding Toledo? New coach, no Eric Page, no Adonis Thomas or Morgan Williams, no D-I know this is the preseason and everyone is an All-American but I'm thinking 7 wins would be pretty good.

Toledo fans are being extremely optomistic for having a team with no proven returning playmakers.

(04-09-2012 09:06 PM)owen Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 09:48 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Apart from our two returning QBs what is the basis for the optimism surrounding Toledo? New coach, no Eric Page, no Adonis Thomas or Morgan Williams, no D-I know this is the preseason and everyone is an All-American but I'm thinking 7 wins would be pretty good.

Toledo fans are being extremely optomistic for having a team with no proven returning playmakers.

Last I looked, Reedy was named MVP of the Military Bowl. He averaged almost twice the yardage per catch as Page and only one less receiving TD. Rockets will be fine. Catch the Spring Game and then complain about the playmaking.

(04-09-2012 12:09 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  If a MAC team went undefeated going into bowl season(13-0), could the MAC get a BCS team?
Realistically OU has the best, and probably only chance. Toledo has an outside shot, and 2 big names on their schedule to help em out.

OU has the best chance to go 13-0 but thats only because their schedule is even weaker than last year's, if that's possible.

OOC- @Penn State, New Mexico State, @Marshall, FCS
MAC- @UMass, Buffalo, Akron, @Miami, EMU, BGSU, @Ball State, @ Kent

12-0 with that plus a win in Detroit is worth a Pizza Bowl, nothing more.

(04-09-2012 06:28 PM)bronconick Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 05:11 PM)EA3 Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 04:40 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  CMU has the schedule to do it this year but neither the talent nor hype. A non-AQ team needs some hype going in to the year. When Boise had Kellen Moore returning last year and started high in the rankings they can maintain their standing by winning. They would have been in a BCS game if they had beaten TCU and won their conference.

Boise gets way more national respect than any MAC team. Like it or not, their history of playing with the big boys and not laying an egg gives them an advantage amongst the people who decide the at large teams. They are a proven commodity. 12+ years running.

The question is about MAC teams....not mountain west or conf USA teams that go undefeated.

You really think cmu has the schedule to do it? I disagree completely, because of multiple reasons.

Honestly, Ohio has the schedule. One BCS team and nothing else overwhelming. Boise goes to BCS games by winning their one game against a top 15 team and then attempting to run the table against mediocrity. Their 2nd run in with ranked opposition has led them to field goal failure in the last two seasons.

Fresno State tried the loading up the non-conference schedule. It got them a memorable loss to Reggie Bush and USC one night and not much else.

My point was that CMU has one of the toughest OOC schedules with MSU, Iowa and Navy plus we play in the West. If we had a strong team and won out (NOT saying I think that happens) we would have an opportunity to move up in the polls. Enough? Probably not.

Have you seen the polls the past 3-4 years? Mediocre teams get ranked all the time. Look at the history an undefeated MAC has an excellent shot of making the BCS bowl game especially with all the losses of quality teams from the non-AQ. The only trick is you must go undefeated which is not likely as has been pointed out. When Hawaii went to the Sugar bowl they had one of the easiest schedules that year and still made it. You don't need a great schedule unless you have to beat several undefeated non-AQs for the spot. How many non-AQs are going to go undefeated? Heck how many AQs are going undefeated these days?

From their point of view:

Why would they award a BCS at large bid to a MAC team that plays in the second to last rated league in the country? Whether or not we agree with that is irrelevant. The national perception paints us ahead of only the Sun Belt. Can, and will, that change with all the realignment and our schools putting a better product on the field? Absolutely.

Why would they award a BCS at large bid to a MAC team that only conquered one top 25 team, if that, all year?

Why would they award a BCS at large bid to a MAC team that draws 1/3 of the home crowd of most BCS schools? Do you really think a MAC team is going to travel well for football? How many butts can we put in the seat for the BCS bowl? The answer is...a fraction of what a BCS team can...and I'm sorry, but the BCS is all about money.

Again, the BCS would choose a 9-3 or 10-2 mega power from the SEC, Big 12, or Big 10 before they even considered a MAC team.

It's wishful thinking, but the stars will never align on this one. It's more likely that one of us wins a 600+ Mega Millions jackpot than our favorite MAC team getting an at large BCS bid.

You are correct that they wouldn't choose a MAC team for an at-large BCS bowl spot, but I don't think that is what folks are arguing.

What is being questioned is whether or not an undefeated MAC team finish in the top 12 or 16, whichever circumstances dictate for the AUTOMATIC BCS bid.

I think it most certainly can. And maybe, as has been pointed out, that team may need some help from non-AQ's losing 3-4 games, but it clearly a REAL possibility.

How long this is the case is another discussion. Every time the non-AQ's get closer to the carrot they pull it back a little bit. The first year that rules were instituted to allow non-AQ's access to BCS bowls the rules were written in a way that most thought that the criteria would be nearly impossible to meet but a certain team found itself ranked that very year in the initial BCS rankings in the Top 10. And the rules were changed.

Um, yes?

Boise State did it multiple times in the WAC. Hawaii did it in the WAC. Utah did it in the Mountain West. TCU did it in the Mountain West. Tulane went undefeated going into bowl season back in the good ol' MetroCUSA days.

I think the teams who have the best shot at it next year are Toledo, Ohio, NIU, or Western Michigan.

(04-10-2012 04:07 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Um, yes?

Boise State did it multiple times in the WAC. Hawaii did it in the WAC. Utah did it in the Mountain West. TCU did it in the Mountain West. Tulane went undefeated going into bowl season back in the good ol' MetroCUSA days.

I think the teams who have the best shot at it next year are Toledo, Ohio, NIU, or Western Michigan.

Agree, but not necessarily in that order.

(04-10-2012 04:31 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  

(04-10-2012 04:07 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Um, yes?

Boise State did it multiple times in the WAC. Hawaii did it in the WAC. Utah did it in the Mountain West. TCU did it in the Mountain West. Tulane went undefeated going into bowl season back in the good ol' MetroCUSA days.

I think the teams who have the best shot at it next year are Toledo, Ohio, NIU, or Western Michigan.

Agree, but not necessarily in that order.

Toledo is 1st on my list...I'm not expecting any MAC team to go undefeated but Toledo will be tough this season...Ohio has SOS (weak) on their side...

(04-09-2012 06:57 PM)axeme Wrote:  To get a fix on how unlikely it is, how often in the last 30 years did a MAC team go undefeated going into the bowl season?

Axe, you had to spoil my fun. Beat me to it.

It's one of those things that are fun to think about, like winning a lottery jackpot.