(03-26-2012 09:08 PM)Shasta77 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 05:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Only delusional Houston fans think it is pathetic to believe Guy doesn't belong in Naismith. In the sane world, it is a common opinion.

"The coaches I hated coaching against were the real good ones, and Guy was one of those" -- John Wooden

John Wooden brought what would be his first Final Four team to Houston in the early 1960s. And Guy's Cougars whipped the Bruins by 20 using what Nolan Richardson would later call 40 minutes of hell. We pressed them the entire game.

So what did Wooden do? He incorporated the press as his base defense the next year. Hey, if you can't beat'em, join'em.

And the year after that, Wooden went undefeated and won his first title at UCLA with no starter taller than 6-5. He beat Duke and their two 7-footers in the title game. What was his base defense? The press.

So in addition to:

1. Dunking
2. The Game of the Century and its impact on college hoops and television
3. Integrating the region
4. Phi Slama Jama

here again we have another area where Guy Lewis had a major impact on the game. Guy was one of the early innovators of the press defense, and John Wooden 's career might have looked entirely different if Lewis had not whipped him using the press in 1962.

I was wondering how this Happy B-Day thread for Guy Lewis was still going on...and of course it was because of quo spewing nonsense after nonsense...all to attract attention.

As more and more UH fans will realize, best just to ignore it and move on as he/she/it has proven time and time again to know so little about sports, its not even worth discussing.

(03-29-2012 05:40 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 07:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I do remember that back in the phi slamma era Lewis's coaching was often disparaged. Critics said he just rolled the ball out on the court and let his athletes do their thing ....

Has there EVER been a coach who simply rolled the ball out on the court and made 5 Final 4s?

You may laugh all you want, but like it or not, the 'he just rolls the ball out there' criticism was a common one made against Lewis back then and is probably why he isn't in the Hall.

I suspect you weren't alive in 1983 ...

(03-29-2012 06:46 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  I was wondering how this Happy B-Day thread for Guy Lewis was still going on...and of course it was because of quo spewing nonsense after nonsense...all to attract attention.

As more and more UH fans will realize, best just to ignore it and move on as he/she/it has proven time and time again to know so little about sports....

You are exactly right, which is why the Naismith voters all agree with you and unanimously voted Lewis into the hall years ago.

Oh wait a minute ...

(03-29-2012 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect you weren't alive in 1983 ...

My last 3 years of High School were spent 3 rows behind the Cougar bench at Hofheinz for what is now known as Phi Slama Jama.

You should thank the Lord above that: 1) the refs called 3 ticky tack first half fouls on Olajuwon in the finals, and 2) Drexler went pro a year early. Georgetown won its first title directly as a result of 1 and 2 above.

(03-29-2012 07:51 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect you weren't alive in 1983 ...

My last 3 years of High School were spent 3 rows behind the Cougar bench at Hofheinz for what is now known as Phi Slama Jama.

You should thank the Lord above that: 1) the refs called 3 ticky tack first half fouls on Olajuwon in the finals, and 2) Drexler went pro a year early. Georgetown won its first title directly as a result of 1 and 2 above.

Anyone have proof quo is actually alive today?

(03-29-2012 07:51 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect you weren't alive in 1983 ...

My last 3 years of High School were spent 3 rows behind the Cougar bench at Hofheinz for what is now known as Phi Slama Jama.

You should thank the Lord above that: 1) the refs called 3 ticky tack first half fouls on Olajuwon in the finals, and 2) Drexler went pro a year early. Georgetown won its first title directly as a result of 1 and 2 above.

WTF? If Houston couldn't beat NC State with Drexler, how on earth could they beat the mighty 1984 Georgetown Hoyas, the best team the Big East has ever produced?

(03-29-2012 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 07:51 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect you weren't alive in 1983 ...

My last 3 years of High School were spent 3 rows behind the Cougar bench at Hofheinz for what is now known as Phi Slama Jama.

You should thank the Lord above that: 1) the refs called 3 ticky tack first half fouls on Olajuwon in the finals, and 2) Drexler went pro a year early. Georgetown won its first title directly as a result of 1 and 2 above.

WTF? If Houston couldn't beat NC State with Drexler, how on earth could they beat the mighty 1984 Georgetown Hoyas, the best team the Big East has ever produced?

Thats right, the hoyas best player back in 1984 was Patrick Ewing. And the SWC best team/player Houston Cougars Akeem "The dream" Olajuwon. They both yet go and meet once again in the 1994 NBA Finals and guess who won that NBA Championship game???


Here is a quote by New York coach Pat Riley;

We threw everything we had at Akeem "The Dream" Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Mason, Charles Oakley and Charles Smith at various times and in various combinations against Houston's 10 year pro.

John_Royal So Don Nelson, who never won a title as a head coach, just made the Basketball Hall of Fame. That means Guy V. Lewis has to be next. Right?

(03-30-2012 12:11 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 07:51 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect you weren't alive in 1983 ...

My last 3 years of High School were spent 3 rows behind the Cougar bench at Hofheinz for what is now known as Phi Slama Jama.

You should thank the Lord above that: 1) the refs called 3 ticky tack first half fouls on Olajuwon in the finals, and 2) Drexler went pro a year early. Georgetown won its first title directly as a result of 1 and 2 above.

WTF? If Houston couldn't beat NC State with Drexler, how on earth could they beat the mighty 1984 Georgetown Hoyas, the best team the Big East has ever produced?

Thats right, the hoyas best player back in 1984 was Patrick Ewing. And the SWC best team/player Houston Cougars Akeem "The dream" Olajuwon. They both yet go and meet once again in the 1994 NBA Finals and guess who won that NBA Championship game???

Are you really going to talk about what happened in the NBA 10 years later as more indicative of what would have happened in the 1984 college championship game than what happened in the college championship game one year earlier?

Phi Slamma Jamma was a great basketball team, one of the best ever. But they weren't as good as the 82-85 Hoyas, the best team of the 80s, and the results show that.

Does your championship rule only apply to coaches or does it apply to players too? If coaches only, why?

I assume you think Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and John Stockton shouldn't be in the hall of fame since they didn't win titles.

Let's go absurd argument to make a point...

If there was a coach who:

• coached in college for 30 years

• made the finals game all 30 years, but lost

• invented a new offense and defense that had never been seen before, but was adopted by almost every team in the nation

• took only 2 star or less athletes, but had at least 2 players drafted in the first round of the NBA every year

• mentored 10 assistant coaches who went on to be head coaches that won titles with his system

• graduated all of his players with a legitimate A average in engineering

• developed a health training program without drugs, supplements, etc that allows all of his players to have 50 inch verticals and run sub 4.0 40s

• started a community basketball program that was implemented countrywide that ended all gang violence

Would you have that guy in the Naismith hall of fame? According to your championship minimum requirement rule, he would not make it in. But I think you'd prove yourself an idiot if you say he doesn't go in.

So if he does go in, winning championships is not a minimum requirement. So the question becomes, what does a coach who doesn't win a championship have to do to get in?

(03-30-2012 10:29 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  Does your championship rule only apply to coaches or does it apply to players too? If coaches only, why?

I assume you think Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and John Stockton shouldn't be in the hall of fame since they didn't win titles.

First, not winning a title is not a rigid litmus test. For example, if a college coach made 10 final 4s without winning a title, I would think that's enough to get him in. It's just that in Lewis's case, his other achievements aren't enough to overcome not having won a title.

Second, winning titles is a far more relevant criterion for coaches than players, because the job of a player is to play his position well, whereas the job of a coach is to lead his team to victory. Coaches, not players, have won-loss and thus titles-won responsibility, because basketball is a team game and coaches coach teams. But no player, not Magic, not Kobe, not Jordan, ever won a title by themselves, titles are won by teams.

Players like Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are among the greatest ever and belong in any HoF because they were amazing players. Not their fault they never were on a title-winning team. Likewise, Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler belong in the college HoF, because they were great college players, even though Phi Slamma never won a national title, and both would belong in an NBA HoF even if they never were on NBA title-winning teams.

(03-30-2012 03:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  aren't enough to overcome not having won a title.

He's won plenty of titles.
If you mean the NCAA Tournament title, than that's the 1 title that alluded him. However, 5 Final Fours spanning multiple decades and teams is equally impressive. An airball put-back doesn't make Guy V. any less relevant.

And let's not forget, Guy V. may not have won the game of the year. But he did win the Game of the Century. That's MORE impressive. Those UCLA teams were that much better, during that time period, than any modern team has been in respect to the rest of their competition. It was that big a deal.

(03-30-2012 05:17 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 03:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  aren't enough to overcome not having won a title.

He's won plenty of titles.
If you mean the NCAA Tournament title, than that's the 1 title that alluded him. However, 5 Final Fours spanning multiple decades and teams is equally impressive. An airball put-back doesn't make Guy V. any less relevant.

... but in this case, it puts him short of the Naismith Hall. When you are talking the cream of the crop, sometimes the difference between being an all-time great and merely "great" is the difference between a shot going in and a shot going out, etc. Basketball, like football, can be a game of inches.

With a national title, Lewis would merit Hall inclusion, without one, he's just a bit short.

And hey, i know the feeling: Georgetown lost 2 national titles, in 1982 and 1985, by absurdly small margins. Fred Brown gives the ball to James Worthy, are you kidding me? Villanova, a team we were FAR better than, a team that was 0-5 that year going in to the final against GT and St Johns, the other two Big East teams to make the final 4, plays a perfect game... With any luck at all, we win 3 titles in 4 years, and that GT team goes down in history as the second greatest multi-year team of all time, behind just the John Wooden UCLA teams. Instead, no dice ....

They just ran a story about it in the Washington Post.

Quote:Players disappointed that ex-Houston coach Guy Lewis not getting call from Hall of Fame

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, March 30, 4:19 PM

HOUSTON — Elvin Hayes hasn’t visited the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame since his induction in 1990, and he even turns down invitations to attend special events affiliated with it.

The former University of Houston star will only end his boycott if his college coach is enshrined, but there’s no guarantee that day will ever come.

Guy V. Lewis will be passed over again when a new class of inductees is announced before Monday’s national championship game in New Orleans. Many of his former players, including Hayes, Clyde Drexler and Hakeem Olajuwon, have unsuccessfully campaigned for their coach for years, and their frustration builds with each passing year.

“It’s a sad situation,” Hayes said, “because when I look at the people they put in the hall, and then look at coach, and what he accomplished, it just doesn’t make any sense to me.”



“Guy Lewis is the Dean Smith of the South, and if you don’t put him in, that’s a great disservice to anyone who’s ever picked up a basketball in the South,” said Drexler, who was inducted in 2004.

“We are all outraged, but sometimes, I think it takes away from people saying, ‘He did this, he accomplished this, he did that,’” Jim Nantz said. “The sentiment is so strong that, I think we’re pushing for him so hard, that we talk about what he didn’t get, as opposed to what he did get.”

“If you know Coach Lewis, you would look at him and if you didn’t know him, you would never know what he was thinking,” Young said. “His players could tell, though, that this was wearing on him and wearing on him. I think that’s a terrible thing.”

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Read the whole story here. It's worth the read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/col...ory_1.html

(03-30-2012 08:42 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  [size=large]Read the whole story here. It's worth the read:

So his players think he deserves the Hall ...

(03-30-2012 10:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 08:42 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  [size=large]Read the whole story here. It's worth the read:

So his players think he deserves the Hall ...

Those are Naismith members themselves, I might add.

Wouldn't it occur to you that they'd know what his influence meant to their development as basketball greats?

That kinda blows holes in your "roll the ball out" BS if you think about it.

For that article to be in the public sphere right now, it sounds like a lot of people have issue with it. Otherwise, it would have never garnered the attention.

I think Pitino's in before Lewis and Rick missed the cut this year in his first year eligible.

(03-30-2012 10:45 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  I think Pitino's in before Lewis and Rick missed the cut this year in his first year eligible.

Yes, Pitino is certainly more accomplished than Lewis, so Lewis probably doesn't get in before Pitino does.