(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:48 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:21 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  A very salient point. +1

One of the five major conferences is in a slightly weaker position then the other four when it comes to the perception of their champion.

I thought there was 6 major conferences per the BCS.

ACC
Big East
BIG 10
Big 12
PAC 12
SEC

Which of these conferences did you eliminate from the group of five?

The Big East of course. They are no longer a Major. They are now the Gatekeepers to the Majors.

The era of the BCS is over.

What is the qualification to be in the Majors?

Good question. I guess first and foremost would be stability. Some might say that the Big 12 doesn't have that but I think they do as per all their new agreements. I used to think they were the blood in the water but that isn't the case anymore.

The Big East is not stable. It's TOP teams are taken from it on a regular basis. That makes it a gatekeeper. "You join the Big East then you too might someday be invited to a Major conference".

Also television contracts make a major. If the Big East can sign one with NBC of equivalent value as the other majors then yes I would say there is an argument to be made that they are a major but I do not see them getting that now with the line up they will have.

The ACC and Big 12 successfully reduced the number of Majors from six to five. Now they sit across from each other at the Majors table.

(03-23-2012 12:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:49 PM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:20 PM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:03 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Regardless if ND is loosing its luster and prestige, no way they get left out of a 4 team playoff if they finish undefeated.

Why? They wouldn't be the first ones to have that happen to them.

Here is this guy again pretending to be a Notre Dame fan.

In multiple posts across multiple threads on multiple boards, he has yet to say one thing positive about ND.

I wonder why the charade?

I'm an Irish fan, I just don't want them to be independent anymore since all it does is harm them more than helps them. Not sure why I can't be pro-conference while also being pro-ND. Sorry if I want to see the team succeed for once rather than seeing them go 8-4 for the umpteenth time and playing in the prestigious Sun Bowl.
Probably would of been in a few more BCS bowls by now and maybe even won one or two of them if they weren't stuck in the past letting everyone else pass them in titles and relevancy.

How so? Explain to me how ND being in the Big East or the ACC would have made any difference regarding their record in 2010 or 2011.

This is a straw man argument.

Maybe I am wrong but I still cannot recall one pro-ND post from you, ever.

Well using the 2010 as an example
ND's OCC schedule in the ACC would of been most likely
Purdue
USC
Navy
Michigan
even though they went 1-3 in this set-up they probably would of done better with Navy earlier in the schedule rather than throwing them to the wolves in the 1st 4 games with Mich, Mich St. and Stanford all back-to-back. Even if the results stayed the same but replacing the other teams with ACC teams ND would of finished with a 6-2 conference record thus giving them a possible birth into the ACC title game vs. Virginia Tech. The winner would get to a BCS game and the loser plays in the Chick-fil-A bowl which would of doubled the Sun Bowl's payout($3.9 mil vs $1.9 mil). In the BE with a 6-2 record they would of either won the tiebreaker or get sent to another bowl from either the BE's BCS spot or any where from the BE bowls #2-4.

2011
Has the same type of story except that loss to USF never occurs in the ACC with an OCC of:
Purdue
Navy
USC
Michigan
ND goes 2-2 again but they already went 3-0 vs. the ACC they would probably end up in the ACC title game again once again going up against VT for the BCS spot. Again if they win they get the BCS bowl bid or the ACC's #2/#3 bowl. Ditto with the BE since again they would either tie or win out the BE with a 7-1/6-2 conference record.

Yeah it's a strawman's argument but there's no way you could tell me that ND couldn't of won a few ACC/BE titles thus gain more BCS games with the way these 2 conferences have been playing, especially in the ACC Atlantic where a team has yet to win the division with less than 2 losses thus making the road to the BCS somewhat easier.

(03-23-2012 02:10 PM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:49 PM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:20 PM)wildthing202 Wrote:  Why? They wouldn't be the first ones to have that happen to them.

Here is this guy again pretending to be a Notre Dame fan.

In multiple posts across multiple threads on multiple boards, he has yet to say one thing positive about ND.

I wonder why the charade?

I'm an Irish fan, I just don't want them to be independent anymore since all it does is harm them more than helps them. Not sure why I can't be pro-conference while also being pro-ND. Sorry if I want to see the team succeed for once rather than seeing them go 8-4 for the umpteenth time and playing in the prestigious Sun Bowl.
Probably would of been in a few more BCS bowls by now and maybe even won one or two of them if they weren't stuck in the past letting everyone else pass them in titles and relevancy.

How so? Explain to me how ND being in the Big East or the ACC would have made any difference regarding their record in 2010 or 2011.

This is a straw man argument.

Maybe I am wrong but I still cannot recall one pro-ND post from you, ever.

Well using the 2010 as an example
ND's OCC schedule in the ACC would of been most likely
Purdue
USC
Navy
Michigan
even though they went 1-3 in this set-up they probably would of done better with Navy earlier in the schedule rather than throwing them to the wolves in the 1st 4 games with Mich, Mich St. and Stanford all back-to-back. Even if the results stayed the same but replacing the other teams with ACC teams ND would of finished with a 6-2 conference record thus giving them a possible birth into the ACC title game vs. Virginia Tech. The winner would get to a BCS game and the loser plays in the Chick-fil-A bowl which would of doubled the Sun Bowl's payout($3.9 mil vs $1.9 mil). In the BE with a 6-2 record they would of either won the tiebreaker or get sent to another bowl from either the BE's BCS spot or any where from the BE bowls #2-4.

2011
Has the same type of story except that loss to USF never occurs in the ACC with an OCC of:
Purdue
Navy
USC
Michigan
ND goes 2-2 again but they already went 3-0 vs. the ACC they would probably end up in the ACC title game again once again going up against VT for the BCS spot. Again if they win they get the BCS bowl bid or the ACC's #2/#3 bowl. Ditto with the BE since again they would either tie or win out the BE with a 7-1/6-2 conference record.

Yeah it's a strawman's argument but there's no way you could tell me that ND couldn't of won a few ACC/BE titles thus gain more BCS games with the way these 2 conferences have been playing, especially in the ACC Atlantic where a team has yet to win the division with less than 2 losses thus making the road to the BCS somewhat easier.

I would rather ND be independent and with a top shelf coach than in a football conference, hoping to win a weaker conference title like the Big East or ACC.

What would have made ND a better team on the field, joining the Big East or ACC or hiring a coach like Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, etc..?

(03-23-2012 02:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:48 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  One of the five major conferences is in a slightly weaker position then the other four when it comes to the perception of their champion.

I thought there was 6 major conferences per the BCS.

ACC
Big East
BIG 10
Big 12
PAC 12
SEC

Which of these conferences did you eliminate from the group of five?

The Big East of course. They are no longer a Major. They are now the Gatekeepers to the Majors.

The era of the BCS is over.

What is the qualification to be in the Majors?

Good question. I guess first and foremost would be stability. Some might say that the Big 12 doesn't have that but I think they do as per all their new agreements. I used to think they were the blood in the water but that isn't the case anymore.

The Big East is not stable. It's TOP teams are taken from it on a regular basis. That makes it a gatekeeper. "You join the Big East then you too might someday be invited to a Major conference".

Also television contracts make a major. If the Big East can sign one with NBC of equivalent value as the other majors then yes I would say there is an argument to be made that they are a major but I do not see them getting that now with the line up they will have.

The ACC and Big 12 successfully reduced the number of Majors from six to five. Now they sit across from each other at the Majors table.

I understand your conference qualifications. How does a university qualify as a Major?

(03-23-2012 02:21 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 02:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:48 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  I thought there was 6 major conferences per the BCS.

ACC
Big East
BIG 10
Big 12
PAC 12
SEC

Which of these conferences did you eliminate from the group of five?

The Big East of course. They are no longer a Major. They are now the Gatekeepers to the Majors.

The era of the BCS is over.

What is the qualification to be in the Majors?

Good question. I guess first and foremost would be stability. Some might say that the Big 12 doesn't have that but I think they do as per all their new agreements. I used to think they were the blood in the water but that isn't the case anymore.

The Big East is not stable. It's TOP teams are taken from it on a regular basis. That makes it a gatekeeper. "You join the Big East then you too might someday be invited to a Major conference".

Also television contracts make a major. If the Big East can sign one with NBC of equivalent value as the other majors then yes I would say there is an argument to be made that they are a major but I do not see them getting that now with the line up they will have.

The ACC and Big 12 successfully reduced the number of Majors from six to five. Now they sit across from each other at the Majors table.

I understand your conference qualifications. How does a university qualify as a Major?

I really couldn't answer that. The area between major and not a major would be foggy. I wouldn't know where to draw the line. Perhaps others might have some opinion on that.

(03-23-2012 02:23 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 02:21 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 02:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The Big East of course. They are no longer a Major. They are now the Gatekeepers to the Majors.

The era of the BCS is over.

What is the qualification to be in the Majors?

Good question. I guess first and foremost would be stability. Some might say that the Big 12 doesn't have that but I think they do as per all their new agreements. I used to think they were the blood in the water but that isn't the case anymore.

The Big East is not stable. It's TOP teams are taken from it on a regular basis. That makes it a gatekeeper. "You join the Big East then you too might someday be invited to a Major conference".

Also television contracts make a major. If the Big East can sign one with NBC of equivalent value as the other majors then yes I would say there is an argument to be made that they are a major but I do not see them getting that now with the line up they will have.

The ACC and Big 12 successfully reduced the number of Majors from six to five. Now they sit across from each other at the Majors table.

I understand your conference qualifications. How does a university qualify as a Major?

I really couldn't answer that. The area between major and not a major would be foggy. I wouldn't know where to draw the line. Perhaps others might have some opinion on that.

Yeah, I always wonder about this question. It seems like it comes down to simple bias.

In the last twenty years, we have seen FSU, Miami, BYU, Utah, Conneticutt, Louisville, Marshall and Boise State become majors. Pluse we have seen the resurgence of Temple and TCU. Could SMU be back?

In the meanwhile, I keep trying to figure out why Duke Football and Vanderbilt Football are still considered majors. At least Northwestern and Wake Forest have won or come close to winning conference championships in that time frame.

I used a twenty year time frame because back in 1991 the Ivey League was still considered Division I football and above IAA. This did not last for long.

(03-23-2012 02:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:48 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  One of the five major conferences is in a slightly weaker position then the other four when it comes to the perception of their champion.

I thought there was 6 major conferences per the BCS.

ACC
Big East
BIG 10
Big 12
PAC 12
SEC

Which of these conferences did you eliminate from the group of five?

The Big East of course. They are no longer a Major. They are now the Gatekeepers to the Majors.

The era of the BCS is over.

What is the qualification to be in the Majors?

Good question. I guess first and foremost would be stability.

That would mean only 3 "major" conferences. Perhaps a better definition would be based on annual conference money shared per school, such as $10,000,000 or more being "major". On that basis, we are talking 6 "major" conferences again. What does "stability" matter compared to riches? Isn't money what realignment is mostly about these days?

(03-23-2012 03:44 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 02:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:48 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  I thought there was 6 major conferences per the BCS.

ACC
Big East
BIG 10
Big 12
PAC 12
SEC

Which of these conferences did you eliminate from the group of five?

The Big East of course. They are no longer a Major. They are now the Gatekeepers to the Majors.

The era of the BCS is over.

What is the qualification to be in the Majors?

Good question. I guess first and foremost would be stability.

That would mean only 3 "major" conferences. Perhaps a better definition would be based on annual conference money shared per school, such as $10,000,000 or more being "major". On that basis, we are talking 6 "major" conferences again. What does "stability" matter compared to riches? Isn't money what realignment is mostly about these days?

good point, but in the rest of the post that you removed I went on to speak about money earnings as well.

Those money earnings do not come without some form of stability as well. When the Big 12 got stable with its internal statement of solidarity they got a big pay day because that increased their negotiating clout. So if you want to talk money, stability is a big factor in that.

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?

He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

(03-23-2012 09:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Yes, the astounding post-ND coaching successes of Bob Davie, Ty Willingham and Charlie Weis gives the lie to ND fans' belief that these were lazy, uninspired hires by an ND administration that values winning championships less than other things.

Let's suppose this is true. What makes you think that the current administration (or the next one) will make an inspired hire? Kelly and Weis were both the consensus best available candidates of anyone not espousing "pull up the money truck to Bob Stoops" canards. Davie was considered one of the best defensive coordinators in the country.

To paraphrase a common retort, Hesburgh is not walking through that door, and even he had some ambivalence about the football program.

(03-23-2012 09:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  LSU and Alabama before Saban, Southern Cal before Carroll, Oklahoma before Stoops, Florida before Meyer and Ohio State before Tressel all show that hiring the right coach is not the most important ingredient to revive a down, traditional program, correct?

Carroll and Tressel left their programs with major sanctions. Saban practices "roster management" techniques that ND would (rightfully) reject. Meyer's players would cause ResLife to go into cataleptic shock, and I don't think you want that on your conscience. Oklahoma had a 44% graduation rate last year, worst of any BCS school. I don't think any of these coaches could (or should) be hired at ND. I also don't think you can argue that their resumes at time of hire stand out over those of Davie, Weis or Kelly. If fans thought Kelly's experience was "small-timey", I hate to guess how they would react to hiring someone whose only previous head coaching experience was for the Fighting Penguins.

ND fans have been saying that they just need the right coach for 20 years and that might be true. I don't really see any particular evidence that such a coach a) exists, b) wants to coach at ND, and c) would be discovered/hired by ND. The question that needs answered is "what does ND do if the last 30 years (averaging 7.7 wins a year) is the new normal?" Is ND's current position sustainable for another 30 years like that?

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?

He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?

He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?

He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

He1nousOne-I responded to your suggestion that if they decide on champions only, they'll make an independents clause. Not really sure what you are trying to say with your response here-it doesn't appear to address the "independents clause" you are putting forth. I don't believe there is going to be an independents clause at all-because it doesn't benefit the parties involved except for a Notre Dame. Simply goes back to--why would the power conferences go for that? I don't believe they will.

(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?

He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.

(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.

Buck, you consider ND irrelevant then you "pimp" them to join the Big 12 because you know that they would be a tremendous addition and would benefit WVU.

ND is not going to join a conference in the prairie heartland of America unless it is a hybrid deal.

You would go bananas if that happened. To see WVU leave one hybrid conference to get away from ND only to see their new conference welcome ND for all sports but football would be ironic.

(I don't see ND doing this, either, but it is fun to think about, just to see the angst it would create).

I know some Big 12 fans have a pipe dream concerning the "proper additions" (Florida State, Clemson, etc..). There is no evidence that it is likely to occur except on blogs and messages boards.

If.....if ND was "forced" (Yes, it would be an unwilling addition to a conference at gunpoint--despite your dislike for that term) to join a football conference, it would likely be the ACC, not the Big 12.

I also think that you are wrong in that there will be no four conference only champions playoff in the foreseeable future.

In my opinion, ND will likely remain a football independent, renew the NBC contract before the 2015 for more money and help broker an NBC/Comcast contract for the Big East.

(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.


I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.

That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.

It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.

If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.

I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.

ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:

1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.

2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.

3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.

4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.

(03-24-2012 09:25 AM)panite Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.

I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.

ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:

1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.

2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.

3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.

4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.

Scratch the Big Ten from that list, Panite. The ND alumni base and big boosters would rather drop football than join that conference.

It would be a no sale among the voters who count at ND.

(03-24-2012 09:25 AM)panite Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.

Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.

I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.

ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:

1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.

2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.

3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.

4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.

RE: #1 the ACC
If and that's a big IF, Notre Dame does choose to join the ACC, I think that Navy would be looked at before Rutgers or especially UConn.
Navy has agreed to venture out with the Big East, so they have demonstrated that they are not opposed to conference affiliation.

Terry, it's a good thing you aren't tired of having this discussion. It happens about this time every year...

(03-24-2012 09:57 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 09:25 AM)panite Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.

So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.

ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.

I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.

ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:

1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.

2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.

3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.

4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.

Scratch the Big Ten from that list, Panite. The ND alumni base and big boosters would rather drop football than join that conference.

It would be a no sale among the voters who count at ND.

I could believe that Terry and that is another of the reasons that I put them in the ACC first. However most of this is irrelevant any way because I agree with you that ND isn't joining a conference any time soon if ever. If they do they a majority of the alumni won't go down without a last ditch drawn out fight.