(03-14-2012 08:32 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 05:39 PM)3601 Wrote:  If you are a UL fan you have to ask yourself some hard questions.

Do I prefer to stay in the Big East and be one of the annual favorites to win the FB championship?

OR

Do I want to go the Big XII and be like Kansas....a dominant BB member, but second fiddle to Texas and OU when it comes to football?

Let's face facts. Texas A&M probably have more resources when it comes to the ability to surpass OU and Texas, but they were never able to do it.

I'm sure that thear are some optimistic UL fans who would welcome the challenge. However, if you are realistic the chances are greater that UL would become another KU in the Big XII than another OU or Texas.

Not going to the Big XII might be the best thing that could happen for UL fans and supporters.

The other question is whether Louisville, an eastern metropolitan university would "fit' in the Big 12, which is primarily comprised of midwest/southwest "flagship" type universities located in college towns. WVU does not fit, in my opinion, other than being a so-called "flagship".

They would "fit" in no worse than they "fit" in with small Catholic private schools, schools in New England, and schools in San Diego.

(03-13-2012 07:44 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  UL going or staying makes no difference to me as an UCONN fan. Every school will do what's best for itself whether it is in the BE or another conference. My only thing is while you are in the BE, I sure hope people come to this forum and support the conference. If your intention is to constantly come here and try to rub people wrong with conference realignments, then I hope you post that stuff on your own forum vs. here.

You mean the way Uconn Husky fans did when Syracuse and Pitt left for the ACC and it looked like Uconn would be going there next? Husky fans tripped over themselves talking about how they couldn't wait to go to the ACC, but now they aren't going to the ACC they demand that everyone wave the Big East flag proudly no matter what?

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am. The fact Delaney and Slive are pushing something isn't good for The Big East.
CJ

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I agree that it is possible. But, IMO, not very likely. If the current BCS-AQ structure is dissolved, other currently-AQ conferences will quickly sign their own tie-ins with major bowls. Those tie-ins are likely to be the same as before the BCS was created: PAC and B1G in the Rose, SEC in the Sugar, Big12 and the Fiesta. The only likely difference is an ACC tie-in with the Orange. But where does that leave the new Big East? Likely without a major bowl tie-in, and that would surely relegate us to a kind of "minor league" status.

(03-14-2012 10:04 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 07:44 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  UL going or staying makes no difference to me as an UCONN fan. Every school will do what's best for itself whether it is in the BE or another conference. My only thing is while you are in the BE, I sure hope people come to this forum and support the conference. If your intention is to constantly come here and try to rub people wrong with conference realignments, then I hope you post that stuff on your own forum vs. here.

You mean the way Uconn Husky fans did when Syracuse and Pitt left for the ACC and it looked like Uconn would be going there next? Husky fans tripped over themselves talking about how they couldn't wait to go to the ACC, but now they aren't going to the ACC they demand that everyone wave the Big East flag proudly no matter what?

Good to see Quo is back on his game again!!

Every organization seeks to improve themselves.
No secret here!

(03-14-2012 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am.

Yes. Those who think the Big East will be just fine if AQ goes away "for everyone" need to remember that since 2004, when Miami and VT left the Big East, NO Big East team has EVER been chosen for a BCS bowl ahead of ANY team from ANY of the other AQ conferences. We've been the last team "chosen" in 6 of those 8 seasons, and the other two times were chosen second to last, but only ahead of non-AQ teams that had qualified for the BCS.

That speaks volumes about what the major bowls feel about affiliating with the Big East, and that was when we had WVU, our only team with a national reputation for traveling. 3601 might be right, but all signs indicate that if the BCS goes away, the Big East will be left out in the major bowl cold.

If AQ goes away "for everyone", in practice that will probably mean it goes away for the Big East, but nobody else.

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 05:39 PM)3601 Wrote:  If you are a UL fan you have to ask yourself some hard questions.

Do I prefer to stay in the Big East and be one of the annual favorites to win the FB championship?

OR

Do I want to go the Big XII and be like Kansas....a dominant BB member, but second fiddle to Texas and OU when it comes to football?

Let's face facts. Texas A&M probably have more resources when it comes to the ability to surpass OU and Texas, but they were never able to do it.

I'm sure that thear are some optimistic UL fans who would welcome the challenge. However, if you are realistic the chances are greater that UL would become another KU in the Big XII than another OU or Texas.

Not going to the Big XII might be the best thing that could happen for UL fans and supporters.

You raise questions that Louisville fans have been debating for almost three years now. The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

That's the real question for Louisville fans. If we are happy having the nicest house in the poorer neighborhood, we'll stay in The Big East. On the other hand if we want to move forward and take a chance at taking the next step, we'll move to The Big 12, if an invite comes.

I wouldn't take anything Pitino says seriously. Rick's job during all this is to be Louisville's positive PR guy when it comes to The Big East. A role Rick was born to play. Our AD, Tom Jurich, and our President, Dr. James Ramsey, are doing the heavy lifting when it comes to The Big 12. Note that our football coach, Charlie Strong is already publicly campaigning for a Big 12 invite. I guess he balances Pitino.
CJ

i don't believe you cj show me a quate of charlie strong making a push to join the big 12, you guys gotta win the big east outright first, and you haven';t done that since your coach "petrino" left for greener pasteures at arkansas.

West Virginia doesn't fit into the Big 12, Louisville wouldn't fit into the Big 12, and BYU certainly wouldn't fit into the Big 12, but no one cares about that anymore, they only care about making any move they can pull off in order to make more money.

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 05:39 PM)3601 Wrote:  If you are a UL fan you have to ask yourself some hard questions.

Do I prefer to stay in the Big East and be one of the annual favorites to win the FB championship?

OR

Do I want to go the Big XII and be like Kansas....a dominant BB member, but second fiddle to Texas and OU when it comes to football?

Let's face facts. Texas A&M probably have more resources when it comes to the ability to surpass OU and Texas, but they were never able to do it.

I'm sure that thear are some optimistic UL fans who would welcome the challenge. However, if you are realistic the chances are greater that UL would become another KU in the Big XII than another OU or Texas.

Not going to the Big XII might be the best thing that could happen for UL fans and supporters.

You raise questions that Louisville fans have been debating for almost three years now. The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

That's the real question for Louisville fans. If we are happy having the nicest house in the poorer neighborhood, we'll stay in The Big East. On the other hand if we want to move forward and take a chance at taking the next step, we'll move to The Big 12, if an invite comes.

I wouldn't take anything Pitino says seriously. Rick's job during all this is to be Louisville's positive PR guy when it comes to The Big East. A role Rick was born to play. Our AD, Tom Jurich, and our President, Dr. James Ramsey, are doing the heavy lifting when it comes to The Big 12. Note that our football coach, Charlie Strong is already publicly campaigning for a Big 12 invite. I guess he balances Pitino.
CJ

So you are saying you are ok being a poor kid in the rich neighborhood then? And I don't mean poor in terms of money. I mean poor in terms of football championships, because even if your scenario proves to be correct and the AQ goes away and the Big East (Even with a 12-0 team) is not allowed into one of the traditional BCS bowls (or 4 team playoffs), the question becomes how often does the Louisville fan base expect to win (not compete, but win) the Big 12? If your answer is once every 10 years or worse, then if it is still worth it just to be mentioned in Big 12 football like a Kansas I say go for it. Not trying to stir the pot because I know how fan bases can sometimes have a mob like mentality.

But if your coach is somehow thinking he can win once every 3-5 years the conference championship in the Big 12, well, I believe you are setting yourself up for big disappointment. You may prove me wrong, but I look at a school with just as good of resources and a much better recruiting ground like Texas A&M and I see that they were only able to win the Big 12 1 time in 16 years and I look at that as a good comparison.

As long as the fan base is realistic, and this goes for mine too, then you are right to expect and want to best financial deal that becomes available.

(03-14-2012 03:05 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  West Virginia doesn't fit into the Big 12, Louisville wouldn't fit into the Big 12, and BYU certainly wouldn't fit into the Big 12, but no one cares about that anymore, they only care about making any move they can pull off in order to make more money.

I disagree in this regard: They're in the mountains and basins region, and would've been a good replacement for Colorado in all sports. But that's the only reason I disagree with you on Brigham Young.

OP: Would I rather you stay in the Big East? Of course. Will I understand if you leave for another conference? Of course? The point I've been making is this: Is it really worth being Texas and Oklahoma's b*tch in football? I think not. You have a better chance in football here. Just gotta get good recruits who can fit into the system you have. (Some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I really don't care. I'm just putting my two cents in on this.)

I really, really, hope Lou stays in the Big East. It's the best (by far) BB conference, has the biggest cities and TV markets, and at has least a respectable football image. Big 12 has great football and reasonably large cities and TV markets. But basketball? Not so much. Besides, there's no way in the foreseeable future Louisville would ever be anything but a junior partner in a conference that's built around football and dominated and ruled by Texas and Oklahoma.

(03-14-2012 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am. The fact Delaney and Slive are pushing something isn't good for The Big East.
CJ

If the AQ goes away then the Pac 10 and Big 10 will still have their Rose Bowl tie in. The SEC will still have its Sugar Bowl tie in.

The Big XII will likely strike a deal with the Fiest or possibly a bigger payout Cotton Bowl.

Hopefully, the Big East can work a deal with the Orange.

I like the idea of the Big East forming a deal with the Orange AND Fiesta...if the East Division champ wins the Big East it goes to the Orange and if the West Division champ wins the Big it goes to the Fiesta.

(03-14-2012 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am. The fact Delaney and Slive are pushing something isn't good for The Big East.
CJ

Are you saying that you don't think a 13-0 Big East champ would regularly crack the top 4 before the playoff?

(03-14-2012 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I agree that it is possible. But, IMO, not very likely. If the current BCS-AQ structure is dissolved, other currently-AQ conferences will quickly sign their own tie-ins with major bowls. Those tie-ins are likely to be the same as before the BCS was created: PAC and B1G in the Rose, SEC in the Sugar, Big12 and the Fiesta. The only likely difference is an ACC tie-in with the Orange. But where does that leave the new Big East? Likely without a major bowl tie-in, and that would surely relegate us to a kind of "minor league" status.

See my previous post. It would be critical for the Big East to strike deal with the Orange, Cotton and/or Fiesta.

I still like the idea of an East/West co-op with the Orange and Fiesta.

(03-14-2012 04:53 PM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 03:05 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  West Virginia doesn't fit into the Big 12, Louisville wouldn't fit into the Big 12, and BYU certainly wouldn't fit into the Big 12, but no one cares about that anymore, they only care about making any move they can pull off in order to make more money.

I disagree in this regard: They're in the mountains and basins region, and would've been a good replacement for Colorado in all sports. But that's the only reason I disagree with you on Brigham Young.

OP: Would I rather you stay in the Big East? Of course. Will I understand if you leave for another conference? Of course? The point I've been making is this: Is it really worth being Texas and Oklahoma's b*tch in football? I think not. You have a better chance in football here. Just gotta get good recruits who can fit into the system you have. (Some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I really don't care. I'm just putting my two cents in on this.)

Lolly Popp sounds like he's tasted sour grapes, GS. As for being anyone's b!tch, you should know that WVU's last 2 games against Oklahoma ended 41-27 & 48-28 in the Mountaineers' favor...

(03-14-2012 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Likely without a major bowl tie-in, and that would surely relegate us to a kind of "minor league" status.

I agree that it's important to keep a major bowl tie in to try to stay on the same level as the other five "BCS" conferences. That is why an Orange, Cotton and/or Fiesta tie in is so important.

However, even if that doesn't happen the Big East will likely be viewed as somewhere between the "Big Five" conferences and other conferences.

Almost like C-USA was considered somewhere between the six BCS conferences and the mid-major conferences in terms of BB when UC, UL and Marquette were still in it.

(03-16-2012 01:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 04:53 PM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 03:05 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  West Virginia doesn't fit into the Big 12, Louisville wouldn't fit into the Big 12, and BYU certainly wouldn't fit into the Big 12, but no one cares about that anymore, they only care about making any move they can pull off in order to make more money.

I disagree in this regard: They're in the mountains and basins region, and would've been a good replacement for Colorado in all sports. But that's the only reason I disagree with you on Brigham Young.

OP: Would I rather you stay in the Big East? Of course. Will I understand if you leave for another conference? Of course? The point I've been making is this: Is it really worth being Texas and Oklahoma's b*tch in football? I think not. You have a better chance in football here. Just gotta get good recruits who can fit into the system you have. (Some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I really don't care. I'm just putting my two cents in on this.)

Lolly Popp sounds like he's tasted sour grapes, GS. As for being anyone's b!tch, you should know that WVU's last 2 games against Oklahoma ended 41-27 & 48-28 in the Mountaineers' favor...

Just for clarification's sake, I was referring to Louisville, not West Virginia. You and your fellow Mountaineers should do a decent job in the Big 12, and you should definitely be competing for Big 12 titles in the next year or two. (The only problem you may have to worry about is travel for your fans.)

(03-16-2012 01:02 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am. The fact Delaney and Slive are pushing something isn't good for The Big East.
CJ

Are you saying that you don't think a 13-0 Big East champ would regularly crack the top 4 before the playoff?

What I believe is a 13-0 The Big East Champion will make it to #5. Perhaps I am cynical but after watching Saban manipulate his ballot this past fall, I wouldn't expect any system to be fair. If The SEC can screw The Big 12, The Big East and ACC don't stand a chance.
CJ

Nobody cares about your sulkified smack talk. If you don't want to make intelligent posts, don't respond to me, or at me! Only an idiot or a liar thinks WVU "belongs" in a conference of Texas, Oklahoma, and Great Plains teams. This is a money grab. Just admit it, shut up, and move on with your life!

Similarly, I disagree that BYU "fits" into the Big 12, as they are hundreds of miles further away than Colorado was, skipping over a full state, and crossing the Continental Divide. They might work financially but college conferences, including the Big East, have totally jumped the shark in the last year!

(03-16-2012 03:31 PM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  

(03-16-2012 01:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 04:53 PM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 03:05 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  West Virginia doesn't fit into the Big 12, Louisville wouldn't fit into the Big 12, and BYU certainly wouldn't fit into the Big 12, but no one cares about that anymore, they only care about making any move they can pull off in order to make more money.

I disagree in this regard: They're in the mountains and basins region, and would've been a good replacement for Colorado in all sports. But that's the only reason I disagree with you on Brigham Young.

OP: Would I rather you stay in the Big East? Of course. Will I understand if you leave for another conference? Of course? The point I've been making is this: Is it really worth being Texas and Oklahoma's b*tch in football? I think not. You have a better chance in football here. Just gotta get good recruits who can fit into the system you have. (Some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I really don't care. I'm just putting my two cents in on this.)

Lolly Popp sounds like he's tasted sour grapes, GS. As for being anyone's b!tch, you should know that WVU's last 2 games against Oklahoma ended 41-27 & 48-28 in the Mountaineers' favor...

Just for clarification's sake, I was referring to Louisville, not West Virginia. You and your fellow Mountaineers should do a decent job in the Big 12, and you should definitely be competing for Big 12 titles in the next year or two. (The only problem you may have to worry about is travel for your fans.)

WVU's fanbase is scattered all across the country, GS, and there are pretty good sized WVU alumni association chapters in Houston and Dallas. WVU playing in the Big XII will allow many WVU fans the opportunity to see games without traveling all the way to Morgantown. I think you'll be surprised to see how many Mountaineer fans show up at away games...