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Obama... A man of the people!
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

20 Million over 8 years on flights to Crawford..

Obama spent three million on flights *in December*.
01-03-2012 12:09 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

So, are you saying it was okay for Bush to do it or it's wrong for Obama to do it?

It's not that the taxpayers pay for a President to go on vacation; it's the frequency that this administration is abusing. They can't fly to Hawaii together? They couldn't fly to Martha's Vineyard together? Also, why the hell are we paying for Michelle's entourage to accompany her? I don't remember anyone elected her "posse" to a f'n thing.
01-03-2012 12:10 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

So, are you saying it was okay for Bush to do it or it's wrong for Obama to do it?

I'm saying as long as the system allows it, it's going to happen and I don't blame either one of them for taking advantage of what the system allows.
01-03-2012 12:54 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 12:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

20 Million over 8 years on flights to Crawford..

Obama spent three million on flights *in December*.

That's still $2.5 million a year just on his flights to and from Crawford, which again, are not the only trips he took.

At the end of Obama's time in office, his vacation dollars won't be significantly more than Bush's. Again, it's nothing new, and the system allows it. People who already don't like President Obama are simply using this as more fuel to the fire. You don't like it? Talk about reforming the system, getting a cap placed on how much the POTUS can spend on his vacation, be it per vacation, per year, per term or whatever.

Until the system changes, this practice will continue, the next POTUS be it in 2013 or 2017 will spend entirely too much as well, but it will go unnoticed or at least defended by those who like him. "Well Obama spent this much..." and so it will go with every misstep made be the next GOP president. "Well Obama did this" and "Obama did that", therefor what our guy is doing is justifiable or not as bad or whatever.

I'm a fairly young man(28) but I really don't like the way I view the political landscape of this country, so much vitriol spewed between the two sides. The right wing who acted so incredulously about how Bush was constantly being based by the left and said with such conviction that the office of the POTUS should always be treated with at least some respect, even if you do not like the man himself. Now the right is acting just as bad, if not worse towards President Obama and justifying the very actions they condemned simply by having the attitude of "you did it our guy".

I was a member of a fraternity that was made up almost exclusively of staunch conservatives but got my degree in a field that is made up almost exclusively of screaming liberals. I like to think that I fall somewhere in between the two extremes, but either way, I usually didn't speak up much when it came to politics because my views were usually not extreme enough to satisfy either side. It really disgusts me how much people are judged in this country just based on their political views. We all want what's best for our country, right? Just because someone's view of what's best for the country is different than your own doesn't make them a bad person. I have a right to my opinion just as you all do to yours, but those opinions on their own do not make any of us bad people, regardless of what side we fall on.

I really hope the next POTUS, regardless of what party he or she comes from, can get us as a country started back in the right direction, but I'm afraid the whole pendulum mentality and pointing fingers across the aisle and justifying/excusing the actions of your guy based on the actions of the previous guy are all going to get worse before they get better.
01-03-2012 01:09 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

20 Million over 8 years on flights to Crawford..

Obama spent three million on flights *in December*.
At the end of Obama's time in office, his vacation dollars won't be significantly more than Bush's.

I'm willing to take that bet.
01-03-2012 01:12 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

20 Million over 8 years on flights to Crawford..

Obama spent three million on flights *in December*.
At the end of Obama's time in office, his vacation dollars won't be significantly more than Bush's.

I'm willing to take that bet.

Please do.

Bush spent $20 million strictly on flights to and from Texas.

Obama spend $4 on his entire vacataion.

Bush spent more days on vacation than any president in history and he used Air Force One more than any president in history. At current, his vacation costs are the greatest of any president in history.

Bush spent more than double the vacation days in his first year in office than Obama did in his first year in office.

Even if Obama ends up spending more on vacation, you'll still be defending the man who spent more than every president aside from Obama.

Again, I'm not defending or condemning the actions of either man nor am I trying to turn this into a debate of who's right and who's wrong, but Obama may end up spending more on vacation than Bush did, but if he does, again it will not be by a significant amount, and even if it was, does it really matter, both men will have spent an obscene amount of money on their vacations and will be the #1 and #2 most expensive vacationing presidents in history. There's no reason to squabble over who spent more, it's the system that allows these expenditures that needs to be brought to task.
01-03-2012 01:23 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:48 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  President's always spend entirely too much on vacation. Bush spend over $20 million just on flights to and from Crawford and those weren't the only vacations he took. It was crap when Bush did it, it's crap now, but it's nothing new. Non story.

20 Million over 8 years on flights to Crawford..

Obama spent three million on flights *in December*.
At the end of Obama's time in office, his vacation dollars won't be significantly more than Bush's.

I'm willing to take that bet.

Please do.

Bush spent $20 million strictly on flights to and from Texas.

Obama spend $4 on his entire vacataion.

Yeah, on one vacation. How many times has he been on a vacation in a mere 3 years? Spain, Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, he went to Chicago once, he'll, he and his "wife" have jetsetted all over the world, bringing their "posse" along, and some of those times, didn't go together.
01-03-2012 01:25 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
Didn't they even send a separate plane for the dog? Don't know about this. Could be a rumor.
01-03-2012 01:25 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Didn't they even send a separate plane for the dog? Don't know about this. Could be a rumor.

Well, not this time at least: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bo.asp
01-03-2012 01:27 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
Just saw that video and...

"Well, I'll be. He's a Capitalist after all -- just posing as a front for the (lucrative?) Democratic Party".

"Any takers on a bet as to whether or not "obamatruth.org (or .com)" is available for web viewing in and beyond July?"
01-03-2012 01:30 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  20 Million over 8 years on flights to Crawford..

Obama spent three million on flights *in December*.
At the end of Obama's time in office, his vacation dollars won't be significantly more than Bush's.

I'm willing to take that bet.

Please do.

Bush spent $20 million strictly on flights to and from Texas.

Obama spend $4 on his entire vacataion.

Yeah, on one vacation. How many times has he been on a vacation in a mere 3 years? Spain, Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, he went to Chicago once, he'll, he and his "wife" have jetsetted all over the world, bringing their "posse" along, and some of those times, didn't go together.

How many times has he been on vacation? Not as many as Bush, you cannot condemn one without condemning the other.
01-03-2012 01:30 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:30 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:09 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  At the end of Obama's time in office, his vacation dollars won't be significantly more than Bush's.

I'm willing to take that bet.

Please do.

Bush spent $20 million strictly on flights to and from Texas.

Obama spend $4 on his entire vacataion.

Yeah, on one vacation. How many times has he been on a vacation in a mere 3 years? Spain, Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, he went to Chicago once, he'll, he and his "wife" have jetsetted all over the world, bringing their "posse" along, and some of those times, didn't go together.

How many times has he been on vacation? Not as many as Bush, you cannot condemn one without condemning the other.

Bush went on "vacation" to his house. If Obama was going back and forth to Chicago, I seriously doubt you'd see all this condemnation.
01-03-2012 01:33 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
And that $20 was just the flights to and from Texas. How much more money was spent on staffing, food, etc. on the 490 total days he spent at the ranch?
01-03-2012 01:34 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:33 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:30 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  I'm willing to take that bet.

Please do.

Bush spent $20 million strictly on flights to and from Texas.

Obama spend $4 on his entire vacataion.

Yeah, on one vacation. How many times has he been on a vacation in a mere 3 years? Spain, Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, he went to Chicago once, he'll, he and his "wife" have jetsetted all over the world, bringing their "posse" along, and some of those times, didn't go together.

How many times has he been on vacation? Not as many as Bush, you cannot condemn one without condemning the other.

Bush went on "vacation" to his house. If Obama was going back and forth to Chicago, I seriously doubt you'd see all this condemnation.

You're still missing the point. Bush spent more days and more money on vacation than any president in history, but conservatives don't say a damn thing about it. $20 million is a lot of money(and again, that's the cost of just transportation) but that is somehow justifiable.

Again, even if Obama ends up outspending Bush, Bush still spent way too much. Condemning one while totally excusing the other(regardless of what side you fall on) only proves my point that this kind of asinine argument is only used by people who want to further justify they're existing distaste for either man. At the end of the day, we're just talking about two men who both spent entirely too much money on vacation.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 01:42 PM by MTPiKapp.)
01-03-2012 01:42 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
Again, show me total figures. Show me Bush's first 3 years. Let's compare those. Comparing Obama's 3 years with Bush's 8 years is disingenuous.
01-03-2012 01:44 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:44 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Again, show me total figures. Show me Bush's first 3 years. Let's compare those. Comparing Obama's 3 years with Bush's 8 years is disingenuous.

Total figures don't exist that I can find, but you're still missing the point. I'm not defending Obama, nor am I condemning Bush.

It's laughable to me to think that Bush being the most expensive and frequent vacationer in United States history is somehow excusable just because he spent most of his time going to and from Crawford and Camp David. That doesn't change the fact that he spent more than anyone who came before him.

Here are the numbers I can give you. Bush spent 1,020 days of his presidency on vacation 487 days at Camp David, 490 days at his ranch, 43 days in Kenneunkport and the rest divided between other miscellaneous vacations. In his first year in office he spent 69 days on vacation.

Up to this point, Obama has spent less than 100 days on vacation. The last cumulative count I could find before this last vacation had the count at 70(that was back in August and that's just 1 day more than Bush spent in his first year). It would seem that Obama will likely take less vacation this year, it being an election year, but we'll say he continues on his current rate and ends up somewhere around 120 total days by the end of this year. That would be 120 days over four years, versus 1,020 days over 8 for Bush. Of course Obama has taken some more expensive individual trips, but the traveling costs and staffing costs of many more days spent on more "low key" vacations would certainly add up pretty quickly.

Again, condemn both, or condemn neither. Personally I don't condemn either for simply doing what the system would allow, the system is the problem.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 02:03 PM by MTPiKapp.)
01-03-2012 02:02 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 01:42 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:33 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:30 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Please do.

Bush spent $20 million strictly on flights to and from Texas.

Obama spend $4 on his entire vacataion.

Yeah, on one vacation. How many times has he been on a vacation in a mere 3 years? Spain, Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, he went to Chicago once, he'll, he and his "wife" have jetsetted all over the world, bringing their "posse" along, and some of those times, didn't go together.

How many times has he been on vacation? Not as many as Bush, you cannot condemn one without condemning the other.

Bush went on "vacation" to his house. If Obama was going back and forth to Chicago, I seriously doubt you'd see all this condemnation.

You're still missing the point. Bush spent more days and more money on vacation than any president in history, but conservatives don't say a damn thing about it. $20 million is a lot of money(and again, that's the cost of just transportation) but that is somehow justifiable.

Again, even if Obama ends up outspending Bush, Bush still spent way too much. Condemning one while totally excusing the other(regardless of what side you fall on) only proves my point that this kind of asinine argument is only used by people who want to further justify they're existing distaste for either man. At the end of the day, we're just talking about two men who both spent entirely too much money on vacation.

That 'Bush spent more time on vacation' is horse crap look at how the media parses it

Quote:So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch. -- CBS

So they are comparing Bush time in Texas where he worked and met with foreign leaders in the same manner they count Obama surfing...
01-03-2012 02:09 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 02:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:42 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:33 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:30 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Yeah, on one vacation. How many times has he been on a vacation in a mere 3 years? Spain, Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, he went to Chicago once, he'll, he and his "wife" have jetsetted all over the world, bringing their "posse" along, and some of those times, didn't go together.

How many times has he been on vacation? Not as many as Bush, you cannot condemn one without condemning the other.

Bush went on "vacation" to his house. If Obama was going back and forth to Chicago, I seriously doubt you'd see all this condemnation.

You're still missing the point. Bush spent more days and more money on vacation than any president in history, but conservatives don't say a damn thing about it. $20 million is a lot of money(and again, that's the cost of just transportation) but that is somehow justifiable.

Again, even if Obama ends up outspending Bush, Bush still spent way too much. Condemning one while totally excusing the other(regardless of what side you fall on) only proves my point that this kind of asinine argument is only used by people who want to further justify they're existing distaste for either man. At the end of the day, we're just talking about two men who both spent entirely too much money on vacation.

That 'Bush spent more time on vacation' is horse crap look at how the media parses it

Quote:So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch. -- CBS

So they are comparing Bush time in Texas where he worked and met with foreign leaders in the same manner they count Obama surfing...

He still spent nearly nearly 900 days in Crawford and Camp David, yes he was working some of those days, but when is the POTUS ever truly on vacation and out of touch?

Bush's numbers are certainly skewed because he did take meetings from his ranch, but c'mon, be real man, they were still vacations. Even if 2 out of every 3 days at Crawford were a work day, that would still be some 160 vacation days at Crawford alone.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 02:14 PM by MTPiKapp.)
01-03-2012 02:13 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
You guys can argue this until you are blue in the face and that won't change the fact that the White House does not release the cost of presidential travel or the cost to protect the president. Until they do it's all wild ass speculation.

And I would hope we can all agree that the money spent to insure the safety of our President and his access to constant information, regardless of party, should not be limited. Period!
01-03-2012 05:09 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Obama... A man of the people!
(01-03-2012 05:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  You guys can argue this until you are blue in the face and that won't change the fact that the White House does not release the cost of presidential travel or the cost to protect the president. Until they do it's all wild ass speculation.

And I would hope we can all agree that the money spent to insure the safety of our President and his access to constant information, regardless of party, should not be limited. Period!

Well..I think its more about protecting the "Office of the Presidency"" than the man...the man changes every four or eight years. But the cost should be irrelevant regardless of whose in there.

Travel should matter though...
01-03-2012 05:13 PM
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