(12-21-2011 05:40 PM)army56mike Wrote:  You see! Liberty is a perfect addition for any conference. In many folks eyes they are a lightning rod and elicit high emotional responses. A conference couldn't buy that kind of publicity or garner the attention from all sorts that Liberty U. would be able to bring to the table.

That being said, as a soon to be Liberty graduate, I and most people around me would say I am a great professional with good character. I'm sorry Mr. Falwell offended you. And I get a great sense that you oppose Christianity far more than Liberty University, but that is my assumption based on your remarks.

Thankfully, the Liberty Flames will find an FBS home in the future and represent themselves and their conference with great sportsmanship on the field and good character and respectfullness off the field.

I'm a Christian and am embarrassed by Farwell, Westboro Baptist, and a couple of others. You do not have to be anti-Christian to be anti-hate mongering. There are many universities with Christian affiliations that are not in that bucket.

However you raise a good point about the free publicity. Does not matter if you are watching a game to cheer for a team or against a team, it still helps the ratings!

(12-23-2011 12:33 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 03:21 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 03:09 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  There you go. I knew it would be just a matter of time before bringing you out of the closet about why you’ re attitude is so vile towards Liberty. It appears it is because Liberty espouses what citizens in states across the USA have expressed (every time) they have been given an opportunity to vote on this issue (which is over 30 times). I know of many straight students who have been hated on in public Liberal art schools. It doesn’t seem to of had a negative effect on them. I’m sure your gay friend will find success.

30 out of 30 states have gone on record supporting the notion that AIDS is God's wrath on homosexuals? They've gone on record stating that homosexuals are supporting a pedophile agenda? The citizens of 30 out of 30 states would agree with Falwell when he states that separation of church and state is a myth and that we should basically be governed as a Christian theocracy?

No, it's more than just opposition to gay marriage - - far more.

Jerry Falwell: "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

Would citizens of 30 out of 30 states agree with that sentiment?

I make no apologies for having a "vile attitude" towards Liberty because frankly, I find them vile, and their positions dangerous and anti-American.

Oh, and my gay friend has found success. Despite his traumatic experiences in Lynchburg.

In all honesty neither of us knows the answer to your 30 out of 30 questions; however we do know that 30 times in states across the USA citizen Joe has voted down same sex marriage. That is a mathematical & scientific absolute. To say how people fell about the other issues you mentioned would be to assume we know the minds of every USA citizen. And you know what to assume makes us.

Many of those 30 states would probably also vote to, Outlaw interracial marriages, Outlaw islam, Classify Mormon’s as a cult and not a religion, resind the voting rights and civil rights bills, and many other things that should not be put to a vote.

(12-26-2011 09:56 AM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-23-2011 12:33 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 03:21 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 03:09 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  There you go. I knew it would be just a matter of time before bringing you out of the closet about why you’ re attitude is so vile towards Liberty. It appears it is because Liberty espouses what citizens in states across the USA have expressed (every time) they have been given an opportunity to vote on this issue (which is over 30 times). I know of many straight students who have been hated on in public Liberal art schools. It doesn’t seem to of had a negative effect on them. I’m sure your gay friend will find success.

30 out of 30 states have gone on record supporting the notion that AIDS is God's wrath on homosexuals? They've gone on record stating that homosexuals are supporting a pedophile agenda? The citizens of 30 out of 30 states would agree with Falwell when he states that separation of church and state is a myth and that we should basically be governed as a Christian theocracy?

No, it's more than just opposition to gay marriage - - far more.

Jerry Falwell: "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

Would citizens of 30 out of 30 states agree with that sentiment?

I make no apologies for having a "vile attitude" towards Liberty because frankly, I find them vile, and their positions dangerous and anti-American.

Oh, and my gay friend has found success. Despite his traumatic experiences in Lynchburg.

In all honesty neither of us knows the answer to your 30 out of 30 questions; however we do know that 30 times in states across the USA citizen Joe has voted down same sex marriage. That is a mathematical & scientific absolute. To say how people fell about the other issues you mentioned would be to assume we know the minds of every USA citizen. And you know what to assume makes us.

Many of those 30 states would probably also vote to, Outlaw interracial marriages, Outlaw islam, Classify Mormon’s as a cult and not a religion, resind the voting rights and civil rights bills, and many other things that should not be put to a vote.

You can't just use a slippery slope and identify people as a whole with a bunch of garbage. That's just poor logic on your side and foolish. If you're gonna say something at least make it worth reading, especially that Bigot League comment. That's just plain stupid. Some of you need to grow up. You don't even know the institution you speak of. I will tell you that Falwell said some stupid things and I'm annoyed an appalled by institutions such as Westboro, Bob Jones, and Pensacola. Institutions that don't represent the true essence of following Christ, but rather a human ambition to create their own legalistic society. But Liberty University has done no such thing. Liberty stands firm to true Biblical principles while adhering to strict academic standards and progressing to more outstanding sports teams. That's a fact. Have some people said some stupid things? Yes, but does that apply to an institution as a whole and the values that they stand for? Absolutely not. So some of you need to grow up before spitting out whatever thought you have in your head and examine the reality of things instead of creating you own.

It is not wrong to disagree with something, in this case homosexuality. Tolerance is NOT how you treat an IDEA, but rather how you treat the PERSON with that idea. That's how this great nation was formed; by practicing true tolerance which means, yes, I disagree with this, and you disagree with this, but I will respect the one bearing that idea, not because I agree with it or because it is right, but because what is right is to respect the PERSON with the idea. Give me a break.

And just saying those who believe in some degree of evolution, homosexuality doesn't even make sense. How do you reproduce haha, that would be an evolutionary disadvantage lol.

(12-24-2011 03:56 PM)joshlu Wrote:  

(12-24-2011 03:19 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(12-24-2011 02:22 PM)joshlu Wrote:  That would be true based on the assumption that an evolutionary world view is a fact, when in fact it is less supported by evidence than an intelligent design (in my case Biblical) worldview.

Wat... are you saying that intelligent design has more evidence than evolution? I really hope you are not... what empirical evidence is there of intelligent design? Other than the bible (and I don't really think that it's empirical), I don't really see any evidence for it. And how would one explain how we got to this point? The 4 Billion years that earth has been around and the longer amount of time that the universe has been around. Did we just appear one day? Where? What evidence is there of this?

I don't mind people believing in Christianity, that's absolutely fine. I just don't like it when people say there's more empirical evidence to ID.

EDIT: I see that you posted that Unraveling Origns book, but since you have apparently already read it, could you supply the answers to these questions real quickly? I don't have the time/money to purchase that book at the moment.

Okay a couple things to start with... Geology

RATE scientists conducted the following geological study because they were not satisfied with the Evolution worldview.

Carbon 14 has a half life of 5730 years. Thus, after 90,000 years (about 20 half lives) the amount of carbon 14 is so small that it is undetectable. However, Carbon 14 has been found in coal samples scientists have dated at 315 million years old using other dating methods. Carbon 14 has also been found in diamonds dated at supposed billions of years old. Something really 315 million years old should not have any detectable amount of Carbon 14 in it. The fact that Carbon 14 is present in appreciable amounts provides further evidence of changing decay rates and a young earth.

Furthermore, tiny Zircon crystals occur in giant granite rocks. The crystals contain Uranium which will decay into lead with a complete undetectable half life of 4.5 billion years. RATE scientists sampled and found a ratio of Uranium to lead consistent with billions of years with the standard half life measurement. They then tried a different method to ascertain. In the process of decay of Uranium to Lead, Helium is produced and emitted. Helium is chemically inert so it does not attach to other atoms (in fact it opposed any sort of bond, im not even gonna get into the chemistry or ill be here all day). In that sample, although the Uranium appeared 1.5 billion years old, the amount of Helium from the Zircon indicated a date of ~6,000 years old for the same sample! (Helium is also a consistent rate of decay across samples!)

I will be back with more later on concerning fossils and evolutionary relatives.

Carbon 14 dating is only used for plants and animals that take carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Fossil fuels vary widely in c14 content. Some have none, some a lot. The theory is that is generated by NEW production of c14 due to local radioactive decay of the uranium-thorium content.

Helium is also not reliable, because as a gas it often escapes over the years.

(12-26-2011 10:21 AM)joshlu Wrote:  It is not wrong to disagree with something, in this case homosexuality. Tolerance is NOT how you treat an IDEA, but rather how you treat the PERSON with that idea. That's how this great nation was formed; by practicing true tolerance which means, yes, I disagree with this, and you disagree with this, but I will respect the one bearing that idea, not because I agree with it or because it is right, but because what is right is to respect the PERSON with the idea. Give me a break.

And just saying those who believe in some degree of evolution, homosexuality doesn't even make sense. How do you reproduce haha, that would be an evolutionary disadvantage lol.

It is not necessarly the belief or the opinion someone has, or thier interpertation of the bible that most people have a problem with, it is an issue when those people force thier beliefs on others through laws.

This should probably be moved to the spin room lounge.

I have no isse with liberty sports, however it is hard to seperate from their leader.

Okay, this thread has degenerated long enough. It no longer holds any relevance to moving from FCS to FBS. It's descended into a religious debate. So I'm moving it to the appropriate forum for such things - the Spin Room...

Feel free to carry on the debate there without me...

(12-26-2011 10:14 AM)joshlu Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 09:56 AM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-23-2011 12:33 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 03:21 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 03:09 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  There you go. I knew it would be just a matter of time before bringing you out of the closet about why you’ re attitude is so vile towards Liberty. It appears it is because Liberty espouses what citizens in states across the USA have expressed (every time) they have been given an opportunity to vote on this issue (which is over 30 times). I know of many straight students who have been hated on in public Liberal art schools. It doesn’t seem to of had a negative effect on them. I’m sure your gay friend will find success.

30 out of 30 states have gone on record supporting the notion that AIDS is God's wrath on homosexuals? They've gone on record stating that homosexuals are supporting a pedophile agenda? The citizens of 30 out of 30 states would agree with Falwell when he states that separation of church and state is a myth and that we should basically be governed as a Christian theocracy?

No, it's more than just opposition to gay marriage - - far more.

Jerry Falwell: "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

Would citizens of 30 out of 30 states agree with that sentiment?

I make no apologies for having a "vile attitude" towards Liberty because frankly, I find them vile, and their positions dangerous and anti-American.

Oh, and my gay friend has found success. Despite his traumatic experiences in Lynchburg.

In all honesty neither of us knows the answer to your 30 out of 30 questions; however we do know that 30 times in states across the USA citizen Joe has voted down same sex marriage. That is a mathematical & scientific absolute. To say how people fell about the other issues you mentioned would be to assume we know the minds of every USA citizen. And you know what to assume makes us.

Many of those 30 states would probably also vote to, Outlaw interracial marriages, Outlaw islam, Classify Mormon’s as a cult and not a religion, resind the voting rights and civil rights bills, and many other things that should not be put to a vote.

You can't just use a slippery slope and identify people as a whole with a bunch of garbage. That's just poor logic on your side and foolish. If you're gonna say something at least make it worth reading, especially that Bigot League comment. That's just plain stupid. Some of you need to grow up. You don't even know the institution you speak of. I will tell you that Falwell said some stupid things and I'm annoyed an appalled by institutions such as Westboro, Bob Jones, and Pensacola. Institutions that don't represent the true essence of following Christ, but rather a human ambition to create their own legalistic society. But Liberty University has done no such thing. Liberty stands firm to true Biblical principles while adhering to strict academic standards and progressing to more outstanding sports teams. That's a fact. Have some people said some stupid things? Yes, but does that apply to an institution as a whole and the values that they stand for? Absolutely not. So some of you need to grow up before spitting out whatever thought you have in your head and examine the reality of things instead of creating you own.

wow, that's great. Well, it's fairly obvious that schools will have to think long and hard about whether they want to associate with liberty university [sic]. I wonder if on-campus liberty alums are bothered by the 100% acceptance rate for the 60,000+ online students that will have the same degree. You can't really dilute the value of something that was always worthless, I suppose.

Garbage in, garbage out.

(12-26-2011 09:47 AM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 05:40 PM)army56mike Wrote:  You see! Liberty is a perfect addition for any conference. In many folks eyes they are a lightning rod and elicit high emotional responses. A conference couldn't buy that kind of publicity or garner the attention from all sorts that Liberty U. would be able to bring to the table.

That being said, as a soon to be Liberty graduate, I and most people around me would say I am a great professional with good character. I'm sorry Mr. Falwell offended you. And I get a great sense that you oppose Christianity far more than Liberty University, but that is my assumption based on your remarks.

Thankfully, the Liberty Flames will find an FBS home in the future and represent themselves and their conference with great sportsmanship on the field and good character and respectfullness off the field.

I'm a Christian and am embarrassed by Farwell, Westboro Baptist, and a couple of others. You do not have to be anti-Christian to be anti-hate mongering. There are many universities with Christian affiliations that are not in that bucket.

However you raise a good point about the free publicity. Does not matter if you are watching a game to cheer for a team or against a team, it still helps the ratings!

Universities that started Christian but have nothing to do with Christian roots... Harvard, Duke, Wake Forest, etc. There is HUGE, COLOSSAL, MONUMENTAL difference between anti-hate mongering and being Chirstian. Falwell's message although at times harsh is lightyears from what Westboro stands for.

A Christian should not hate anyone one, BUT a Christian should not be afraid, ashamed, or too timid to tell others what a sin is in the eyes of God. There are lots of ministers, churches and denominations I'm ashamed of, feel good messages, like "there is no hell", or "it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person" are not biblical. There is a hell and you can't get to heaven on works.

(12-16-2011 06:46 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-16-2011 03:33 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(12-15-2011 11:18 PM)solohawks Wrote:  same problem all eastern fcs upgrades have...mac or sunbelt? neither is a great fit

The MAC could be a decent fit for Liberty actually.

Liberty would give the MAC that one private school playing FBS ball like the Big Ten has with Northwestern. They could pair Liberty with another nice regional addition like Appalachian State.

To bad they are evangelicals and their degrees arent respected by any educator.

Bad trolling.

(12-21-2011 02:44 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  They promote and associate with the completely discredited and fraudulent and harmful "ex-gay therapy" con artists like Exodus International.

Funny how the ex-gays don't think that.

You seem pretty homophobic.

(12-15-2011 09:59 PM)army56mike Wrote:  LU currently has 13,000 students and wants to be at 20,000 by 2020 on campus. They have over 80,000 if you count their online students. They are sinking millions of dollars into campus improvements in academic, student life and athletics. They have a great football facility that is 20,000 and expanding to 30,000. Money is not an issue with Liberty. They will announce the results of their feasibility study on moving to FBS in Feb. or Mar. I am sure the answer will be move when there is an opening.

And yes, as 4x4hokies stated, they are trying to position themselves to evangelical Christians like Notre Dame is to Catholics and BYU is to Mormons.

And they are hitting their demographic well.

(12-26-2011 11:26 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 09:47 AM)dcCid Wrote:  [quote='army56mike' pid='7337640' dateline='1324507225']
You see! Liberty is a perfect addition for any conference. In many folks eyes they are a lightning rod and elicit high emotional responses. A conference couldn't buy that kind of publicity or garner the attention from all sorts that Liberty U. would be able to bring to the table.

That being said, as a soon to be Liberty graduate, I and most people around me would say I am a great professional with good character. I'm sorry Mr. Falwell offended you. And I get a great sense that you oppose Christianity far more than Liberty University, but that is my assumption based on your remarks.

Thankfully, the Liberty Flames will find an FBS home in the future and represent themselves and their conference with great sportsmanship on the field and good character and respectfullness off the field.

I'm a Christian and am embarrassed by Farwell, Westboro Baptist, and a couple of others. You do not have to be anti-Christian to be anti-hate mongering. There are many universities with Christian affiliations that are not in that bucket.

However you raise a good point about the free publicity. Does not matter if you are watching a game to cheer for a team or against a team, it still helps the ratings!

Quote:Universities that started Christian but have nothing to do with Christian roots... Harvard, Duke, Wake Forest, etc. There is HUGE, COLOSSAL, MONUMENTAL difference between anti-hate mongering and being Chirstian. Falwell's message although at times harsh is lightyears from what Westboro stands for.

I do not see the differences in their agenda. What is it?

Quote:A Christian should not hate anyone one, BUT a Christian should not be afraid, ashamed, or too timid to tell others what a sin is in the eyes of God. There are lots of ministers, churches and denominations I'm ashamed of, feel good messages, like "there is no hell", or "it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person" are not biblical. There is a hell and you can't get to heaven on works.

Christians, and other religions tell others WHAT THEY THINK sins are in the eyes of god.

(12-26-2011 11:26 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 09:47 AM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 05:40 PM)army56mike Wrote:  You see! Liberty is a perfect addition for any conference. In many folks eyes they are a lightning rod and elicit high emotional responses. A conference couldn't buy that kind of publicity or garner the attention from all sorts that Liberty U. would be able to bring to the table.

That being said, as a soon to be Liberty graduate, I and most people around me would say I am a great professional with good character. I'm sorry Mr. Falwell offended you. And I get a great sense that you oppose Christianity far more than Liberty University, but that is my assumption based on your remarks.

Thankfully, the Liberty Flames will find an FBS home in the future and represent themselves and their conference with great sportsmanship on the field and good character and respectfullness off the field.

I'm a Christian and am embarrassed by Farwell, Westboro Baptist, and a couple of others. You do not have to be anti-Christian to be anti-hate mongering. There are many universities with Christian affiliations that are not in that bucket.

However you raise a good point about the free publicity. Does not matter if you are watching a game to cheer for a team or against a team, it still helps the ratings!

Universities that started Christian but have nothing to do with Christian roots... Harvard, Duke, Wake Forest, etc. There is HUGE, COLOSSAL, MONUMENTAL difference between anti-hate mongering and being Chirstian. Falwell's message although at times harsh is lightyears from what Westboro stands for.

A Christian should not hate anyone one, BUT a Christian should not be afraid, ashamed, or too timid to tell others what a sin is in the eyes of God. There are lots of ministers, churches and denominations I'm ashamed of, feel good messages, like "there is no hell", or "it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person" are not biblical. There is a hell and you can't get to heaven on works.

There is no hell, and you only look like an idiot when you try to dictate what is "sinful" to other people. But looking like an idiot has never been a deterrent to you.

(12-26-2011 06:33 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 11:26 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 09:47 AM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 05:40 PM)army56mike Wrote:  You see! Liberty is a perfect addition for any conference. In many folks eyes they are a lightning rod and elicit high emotional responses. A conference couldn't buy that kind of publicity or garner the attention from all sorts that Liberty U. would be able to bring to the table.

That being said, as a soon to be Liberty graduate, I and most people around me would say I am a great professional with good character. I'm sorry Mr. Falwell offended you. And I get a great sense that you oppose Christianity far more than Liberty University, but that is my assumption based on your remarks.

Thankfully, the Liberty Flames will find an FBS home in the future and represent themselves and their conference with great sportsmanship on the field and good character and respectfullness off the field.

I'm a Christian and am embarrassed by Farwell, Westboro Baptist, and a couple of others. You do not have to be anti-Christian to be anti-hate mongering. There are many universities with Christian affiliations that are not in that bucket.

However you raise a good point about the free publicity. Does not matter if you are watching a game to cheer for a team or against a team, it still helps the ratings!

Universities that started Christian but have nothing to do with Christian roots... Harvard, Duke, Wake Forest, etc. There is HUGE, COLOSSAL, MONUMENTAL difference between anti-hate mongering and being Chirstian. Falwell's message although at times harsh is lightyears from what Westboro stands for.

A Christian should not hate anyone one, BUT a Christian should not be afraid, ashamed, or too timid to tell others what a sin is in the eyes of God. There are lots of ministers, churches and denominations I'm ashamed of, feel good messages, like "there is no hell", or "it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person" are not biblical. There is a hell and you can't get to heaven on works.

There is no hell, and you only look like an idiot when you try to dictate what is "sinful" to other people. But looking like an idiot has never been a deterrent to you.

Well, I hope there is no "Hell" because that is where I would be heading if there is one. It would really suck because I hate hot weather.

(12-26-2011 11:26 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 09:47 AM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 05:40 PM)army56mike Wrote:  You see! Liberty is a perfect addition for any conference. In many folks eyes they are a lightning rod and elicit high emotional responses. A conference couldn't buy that kind of publicity or garner the attention from all sorts that Liberty U. would be able to bring to the table.

That being said, as a soon to be Liberty graduate, I and most people around me would say I am a great professional with good character. I'm sorry Mr. Falwell offended you. And I get a great sense that you oppose Christianity far more than Liberty University, but that is my assumption based on your remarks.

Thankfully, the Liberty Flames will find an FBS home in the future and represent themselves and their conference with great sportsmanship on the field and good character and respectfullness off the field.

I'm a Christian and am embarrassed by Farwell, Westboro Baptist, and a couple of others. You do not have to be anti-Christian to be anti-hate mongering. There are many universities with Christian affiliations that are not in that bucket.

However you raise a good point about the free publicity. Does not matter if you are watching a game to cheer for a team or against a team, it still helps the ratings!

Universities that started Christian but have nothing to do with Christian roots... Harvard, Duke, Wake Forest, etc. There is HUGE, COLOSSAL, MONUMENTAL difference between anti-hate mongering and being Chirstian. Falwell's message although at times harsh is lightyears from what Westboro stands for.

A Christian should not hate anyone one, BUT a Christian should not be afraid, ashamed, or too timid to tell others what THEY THINK a sin is in the eyes of God. There are lots of ministers, churches and denominations I'm ashamed of, feel good messages, like "there is no hell", or "it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person" are not biblical. There is a hell and you can't get to heaven on works.

What exactly is the difference between Farwell's message/agenda and Westboro's?

(12-26-2011 05:21 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-21-2011 02:44 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  They promote and associate with the completely discredited and fraudulent and harmful "ex-gay therapy" con artists like Exodus International.

Funny how the ex-gays don't think that.

You seem pretty homophobic.

Nope. There is zero evidence that someone's innate sexuality is changeable and plenty that it is not. These places prey on guilt and self-loathing largely instilled by Christianity or other mythology. The rate of "relapse" is, unsurprisingly, very high. Brainwashing just warps a person's psyche, it doesn't change who they are. Folks who are interested in truth and not dogma might actually read some of the horror stories of people who have gone through this "therapy". It's sad and archaic, and a reminder that some elements of society are still beholden to ignorant fear and superstition. I feel especially bad for young people forced into these warped institutions by family so blinded by their prejudices that they are unable to accept their loved ones for who they are. It's cruel and tragic and a gigantic money-making scam.

(12-26-2011 11:26 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  a Christian should not be afraid, ashamed, or too timid to tell others what a sin is in the eyes of God.

LOL at people who think they know what God considers a "sin" and think they have the moral superiority to tell others how to live their lives.

(12-26-2011 08:00 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  Nope. There is zero evidence that someone's innate addiction to alcohol changeable and plenty that it is not. These places prey on guilt and self-loathing largely instilled by Christianity or other mythology. The rate of "relapse" is, unsurprisingly, very high. Brainwashing just warps a person's psyche, it doesn't change who they are. Folks who are interested in truth and not dogma might actually read some of the horror stories of people who have gone through this "therapy". It's sad and archaic, and a reminder that some elements of society are still beholden to ignorant fear and superstition. I feel especially bad for young people forced into these warped institutions by family so blinded by their prejudices that they are unable to accept their loved ones for who they are. It's cruel and tragic and a gigantic money-making scam.

See that paragraph works if you talk about alcoholism....

BTW I guess this does not count as evidence? Of course it does not because in your eyes an ex ay was either faking the gay or a relapse waiting to happen..

Quote:Exodus International president’s new book offers brutal honesty and hard-earned insights that can help all Christians lead lives of holiness.

Alan Chambers’ new book is titled Leaving Homosexuality – but it’s about a lot more than that. Yes, it is filled with revealing details of his story – now almost 20 years in the making – of struggling away from his unwanted same-sex attractions. And there’s no disputing that men and women who share those struggles will find great hope and healing in Chambers’ brutal and insightful honesty.

The irony is that it's the left, and not the right, who think that human sexuality is a simple thing... Yup your born either gay, straight, bi, transgender, cross dresser, pheodphile, or poly amerous..

Yup nothing in your life experice can have *any* thing to do with nudging you in a particular direction.

It turns out sexuality is the only thing in human nature which is 100% nature and 0% nurture.

(12-26-2011 09:01 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 08:00 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  Nope. There is zero evidence that someone's innate addiction to alcohol changeable and plenty that it is not. These places prey on guilt and self-loathing largely instilled by Christianity or other mythology. The rate of "relapse" is, unsurprisingly, very high. Brainwashing just warps a person's psyche, it doesn't change who they are. Folks who are interested in truth and not dogma might actually read some of the horror stories of people who have gone through this "therapy". It's sad and archaic, and a reminder that some elements of society are still beholden to ignorant fear and superstition. I feel especially bad for young people forced into these warped institutions by family so blinded by their prejudices that they are unable to accept their loved ones for who they are. It's cruel and tragic and a gigantic money-making scam.

See that paragraph works if you talk about alcoholism....

BTW I guess this does not count as evidence? Of course it does not because in your eyes an ex ay was either faking the gay or a relapse waiting to happen..

Quote:Exodus International president’s new book offers brutal honesty and hard-earned insights that can help all Christians lead lives of holiness.

Alan Chambers’ new book is titled Leaving Homosexuality – but it’s about a lot more than that. Yes, it is filled with revealing details of his story – now almost 20 years in the making – of struggling away from his unwanted same-sex attractions. And there’s no disputing that men and women who share those struggles will find great hope and healing in Chambers’ brutal and insightful honesty.

The irony is that it's the left, and not the right, who think that human sexuality is a simple thing... Yup your born either gay, straight, bi, transgender, cross dresser, pheodphile, or poly amerous..

Yup nothing in your life experice can have *any* thing to do with nudging you in a particular direction.

It turns out sexuality is the only thing in human nature which is 100% nature and 0% nurture.

Homosexuality isn't the same as alcoholism and can't be compared to it. Instead of trying to divert the issue, why not answer what he said? You can brainwash someone to believe just about anything, but that doesn't make what is brainwashed true.