(12-07-2011 07:31 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Granted competitively Fresno St. is pretty good. But based on what the commish has said...

San Jose - 945,942 - 10th largest city
Memphis - 646,889 - 20th largest city
UNLV - 583,756 - 30th largest city
New Mexico - 545,852 - 32nd largest city

Fresno St. - 494,665 - 34th largest city

What about a state flagship like Nevada. Wouldnt their appeal be statewide (2.9 million)? So maybe San Jose and Nevada. Though Fresno State has a much better program.

But Reno is only like 200,000 people. What would "TV Market" Marinatto say to that?

(12-07-2011 07:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Big East is really riding this dissolving of the AQ to the brink. Now, forget the athletic prowess of the schools youre adding. Just think about the market. This isnt very forward thinking. Conferences are made for decades. TV markets arent the future. Soon all sporting events will be broadcast online exclusively via memberships. This will reduce institutional value of a school to its actual following and or package subscription. Me thinks this way of thinking back fires in the long term.

This is not the future. It may have a role, but it will not be the primary delivery system. The pay-for-view model works well to maximize profits in the short term but it destroys the market long term because it has no way to indoctrinate new or casual viewers. Over time, its market becomes smaller and smaller because its very design locks out potential new fans. Boxing is a good example. It used to be more popular than every sport but baseball. But today, it has esentially ended as a major sport after decades of being a pay for view only. Being hidden from the general public prevented it from developing new young fans.

Remember, lots of fans of various schools never even went to the Universty. They became fans by watching them on TV.

(12-07-2011 07:31 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Granted competitively Fresno St. is pretty good. But based on what the commish has said...

San Jose - 945,942 - 10th largest city
Memphis - 646,889 - 20th largest city
UNLV - 583,756 - 30th largest city
New Mexico - 545,852 - 32nd largest city

Fresno St. - 494,665 - 34th largest city

Not that I necesarily want Fresno as part of this mess but you should at least have your data right. The Fresno media market is very misleading because of CA politics. The Fresno media market doesn't include Modesto or Bakersfield which is only 1.5 hours away and tied to Fresno in many ways. Both radio and cable extend far beyond the quoted "media market".

Look up the population of the San Joaquin Valley which Fresno sits in the middle of and is symbolized by the Green V on the back of the helmet: 4,223,808 http://www.greatvalley.org/pub_documents...h_2050.pdf

This also doesn't include the population of the Sacramento metro area which are reached by the Fresno radio stations. That is another million people or so and only 3 hours drive away. I live in Sac and drive to Fresno football games. In addition, the Valley has no Pro football teams and no BCS college teams as competition.

SDSU wants UNLV because they provide a better basketball team to take with them to the Big West so you won't get the real data from them. For anyone who really knows CA, which isn't the big east, the San Joaquin Valley is one of the largest untapped markets for football in the country

(12-07-2011 08:32 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 07:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Big East is really riding this dissolving of the AQ to the brink. Now, forget the athletic prowess of the schools youre adding. Just think about the market. This isnt very forward thinking. Conferences are made for decades. TV markets arent the future. Soon all sporting events will be broadcast online exclusively via memberships. This will reduce institutional value of a school to its actual following and or package subscription. Me thinks this way of thinking back fires in the long term.

This is not the future. It may have a role, but it will not be the primary delivery system. The pay-for-view model works well to maximize profits in the short term but it destroys the market long term because it has no way to indoctrinate new or casual viewers. Over time, its market becomes smaller and smaller because its very design locks out potential new fans. Boxing is a good example. It used to be more popular than every sport but baseball. But today, it has esentially ended as a major sport after decades of being a pay for view only. Being hidden from the general public prevented it from developing new young fans.

Remember, lots of fans of various schools never even went to the Universty. They became fans by watching them on TV.

Oh, I thought it had something to do with Mike Tyson knockin everybody out in the 1st round. ($59.99)

Unless something has changed....everything I have heard and read still points to Navy still joining....just not till 2014 or 2015. Obviously they don't want to put any news out there till after the Army-Navy game.

I read a while back when reports were 1st starting to come out about AFA backing off.....that Navy was interested regardless of what the other academies do.

Temple still has their Nova problem. I could still see Memphis back in the mix. They bring the Liberty Bowl, basketball and a central location that really isn't real far for anyone.

I would agree Fresno would probably be the next best option for a Western football only school....however, I would not mind one or two more all sports members.

I don't want UNLV for football only but I would take them for all sports. Every city in this country has all kinds of direct flights into Vegas so it isn't like it is really that far. And if you really get bummed out about flying that 3rd or 4th hour.....just remind your self.....you aren't flying to Pittsburgh or Detroit or Cleveland.....you are flying to Vegas....how bad can it be?

(12-07-2011 09:04 PM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  I don't want UNLV for football only but I would take them for all sports. Every city in this country has all kinds of direct flights into Vegas so it isn't like it is really that far. And if you really get bummed out about flying that 3rd or 4th hour.....just remind your self.....you aren't flying to Pittsburgh or Detroit or Cleveland.....you are flying to Vegas....how bad can it be?

Why would you take UNLV for all sports when you have Memphis closer. They are equally bad in football and Memphis is better in hoops and closer?

In terms of Fresno you will have the same situation with SDSU that you had with USF and UCF. We don't like each other very much.

(12-07-2011 07:32 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  Markets are important but the facilities and performance has to be there.

SDSU has a huge football stadium to work with and have been competitive recently as a deciding factor.

The stadiums at SJSU and Fresno aren't exactly BE par. I guess SJSU could play its home games at a local NFL stadium. UNLV has a 40,000 seat stadium that is less than half full.

East Carolina can deliver the Big East 50,000 fans and by joining the BE can put more distance between the BE and Mount-USA.

Fresno has a 42,000 seat stadium and up to this year we have averaged pretty good attendance. Cinci fans can tell you.

(12-07-2011 07:35 PM)TOGC Wrote:  ECU will never get in for the same reason USM will never get in.

No market.

End of story.

You’re an idiot. Just because Memphis is in a larger city doesn’t been anyone give a sh1t about Memphis football. Anyone can see this in your attendance and record. CUSA should drop a couple of teams due of the lack support and Memphis should be one of the teams at the top of the list. The dead weight needs to be canned and the league needs to start over with schools dedicated to bettering themselves. This does not describe Memphis football. Drop back to FCS and start over.

East
Cincy
CT
Louisville
Navy
Rutgers
S Florida

West
Boise St
C Florida
Fresno St
Houston
SD St
SMU

The Western Division works for the western schools used to the enormous distances that are typical of the American west, but Cincinnati and Louisville need to stay east. Putting either of us in the West is bad bad bad. Unfortunately, that means one of two things:

1. Central Florida has to be assigned to the West; or
2. There is no room for Navy any more

There is a #3. Big East goes to 14.

East 7
C Florida
Cincy
CT
Louisville
Navy
Rutgers
S Florida

West 7
Boise St
Fresno St
Houston
Memphis
Nevada/New Mexico
SD St
SMU

(12-07-2011 09:23 PM)KittyHawkPirate Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 07:35 PM)TOGC Wrote:  ECU will never get in for the same reason USM will never get in.

No market.

End of story.

You’re an idiot. Just because Memphis is in a larger city doesn’t been anyone give a sh1t about Memphis football. Anyone can see this in your attendance and record. CUSA should drop a couple of teams due of the lack support and Memphis should be one of the teams at the top of the list. The dead weight needs to be canned and the league needs to start over with schools dedicated to bettering themselves. This does not describe Memphis football. Drop back to FCS and start over.

If we're going to drop dead weight, we should start with dropping ECU fans from the gene pool.

(12-07-2011 08:32 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 07:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Big East is really riding this dissolving of the AQ to the brink. Now, forget the athletic prowess of the schools youre adding. Just think about the market. This isnt very forward thinking. Conferences are made for decades. TV markets arent the future. Soon all sporting events will be broadcast online exclusively via memberships. This will reduce institutional value of a school to its actual following and or package subscription. Me thinks this way of thinking back fires in the long term.

This is not the future. It may have a role, but it will not be the primary delivery system. The pay-for-view model works well to maximize profits in the short term but it destroys the market long term because it has no way to indoctrinate new or casual viewers. Over time, its market becomes smaller and smaller because its very design locks out potential new fans. Boxing is a good example. It used to be more popular than every sport but baseball. But today, it has esentially ended as a major sport after decades of being a pay for view only. Being hidden from the general public prevented it from developing new young fans.

Remember, lots of fans of various schools never even went to the Universty. They became fans by watching them on TV.

Youre misinterpreting what Im saying. Everyone subscribes to some sort of channel package via directv, dish, cable, etc. With the endless volume structure of the internet, these channel packages can be individualized via conference networks, such as the Big East Network. However, each subscriber will be able to personally select the games they watch and the networks they subscribe to. Therefore, actual fanbase size will be more crucial than non-affiliated arbitrary market population.

(12-07-2011 07:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 07:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Big East is really riding this dissolving of the AQ to the brink. Now, forget the athletic prowess of the schools youre adding. Just think about the market. This isnt very forward thinking. Conferences are made for decades. TV markets arent the future. Soon all sporting events will be broadcast online exclusively via memberships. This will reduce institutional value of a school to its actual following and or package subscription. Me thinks this way of thinking back fires in the long term.

Thats exactly what I posted weeks ago with the Big XII TV deals. I wonder how powerful and lucrative these TV deals will be in a few years when each school has it's own Web Network. Many are already in place. Mizzou just launched theirs. $79 a year for a full subscription. Think about it...most middle tier schools never see their teams play on TV. The web is the future.

Android or Apple tvs; Microsoft Kinect powered set top boxes are the future it's going to take one or more of those to take off to get the internet into everyone's living room

(12-07-2011 09:13 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 09:04 PM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  I don't want UNLV for football only but I would take them for all sports. Every city in this country has all kinds of direct flights into Vegas so it isn't like it is really that far. And if you really get bummed out about flying that 3rd or 4th hour.....just remind your self.....you aren't flying to Pittsburgh or Detroit or Cleveland.....you are flying to Vegas....how bad can it be?

Why would you take UNLV for all sports when you have Memphis closer. They are equally bad in football and Memphis is better in hoops and closer?

In terms of Fresno you will have the same situation with SDSU that you had with USF and UCF. We don't like each other very much.

Well I did mention Memphis in my original post. I actually mentioned the schools in order that I see that they would be valued.

Temple
Memphis
Fresno State
UNLV

I mentioned what I could see as some thoughts about each one. Temple....seems to be blocked by Nova and friends. So then move to Memphis.....but if they were not the option for whatever reason....then I would see Fresno State as a football only.....THEN I made my way to UNLV......and my problem with UNLV is that I wouldn't want them for Football only. The only way I could convince myself into taking them would be to take their Basketball too......however that really probably doesn't work.....not so much because of BB but because of all the other sports like Women's Tennis ect.

(12-07-2011 08:54 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 07:31 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Granted competitively Fresno St. is pretty good. But based on what the commish has said...

San Jose - 945,942 - 10th largest city
Memphis - 646,889 - 20th largest city
UNLV - 583,756 - 30th largest city
New Mexico - 545,852 - 32nd largest city

Fresno St. - 494,665 - 34th largest city

Not that I necesarily want Fresno as part of this mess but you should at least have your data right. The Fresno media market is very misleading because of CA politics. The Fresno media market doesn't include Modesto or Bakersfield which is only 1.5 hours away and tied to Fresno in many ways. Both radio and cable extend far beyond the quoted "media market".

Look up the population of the San Joaquin Valley which Fresno sits in the middle of and is symbolized by the Green V on the back of the helmet: 4,223,808 http://www.greatvalley.org/pub_documents...h_2050.pdf

This also doesn't include the population of the Sacramento metro area which are reached by the Fresno radio stations. That is another million people or so and only 3 hours drive away. I live in Sac and drive to Fresno football games. In addition, the Valley has no Pro football teams and no BCS college teams as competition.

SDSU wants UNLV because they provide a better basketball team to take with them to the Big West so you won't get the real data from them. For anyone who really knows CA, which isn't the big east, the San Joaquin Valley is one of the largest untapped markets for football in the country

I am gonna stop you right here sactown dog. ECU has tried this argument for years. Raleigh is only 90 miles away and our Charlotte viewership is equal to UNC and NC. States. They don't care.

(12-07-2011 06:15 PM)army56mike Wrote:  I could be wrong, ....

Sorry Mike, but yeah ... you are.

Navy

Air Force


#11 and 12.

Period.





.

(12-07-2011 08:54 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 07:31 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

Not that I necesarily want Fresno as part of this mess but you should at least have your data right. The Fresno media market is very misleading because of CA politics. The Fresno media market doesn't include Modesto or Bakersfield which is only 1.5 hours away and tied to Fresno in many ways. Both radio and cable extend far beyond the quoted "media market".

Look up the population of the San Joaquin Valley which Fresno sits in the middle of and is symbolized by the Green V on the back of the helmet: 4,223,808 http://www.greatvalley.org/pub_documents...h_2050.pdf

This also doesn't include the population of the Sacramento metro area which are reached by the Fresno radio stations. That is another million people or so and only 3 hours drive away. I live in Sac and drive to Fresno football games. In addition, the Valley has no Pro football teams and no BCS college teams as competition.

SDSU wants UNLV because they provide a better basketball team to take with them to the Big West so you won't get the real data from them. For anyone who really knows CA, which isn't the big east, the San Joaquin Valley is one of the largest untapped markets for football in the country

I am gonna stop you right here sactown dog. ECU has tried this argument for years. Raleigh is only 90 miles away and our Charlotte viewership is equal to UNC and NC. States. They don't care.
[/quote]

I hear you but let's be clear

Population of North Carolina - 9,535,483
Shared by 4 BCS teams and 1 Pro Team

Population of San Joaquin Valley - 4,223,808
Shared by 0 BCS teams and 0 Pro teams

It really isn't an identical situation

I had heard some allude to Navy not joining or at least their plans are on hold till at least 2015. I did not know where that was coming from but I now see this article that came out this morning about Navy.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-12...-army-navy

So I am thinking, Navy may come.....but they may be part of teams #13 and #14 or even #15 and #16 (just speclation on my part).

So yeah, the Big East may still be looking to add two more. How about Memphis (all sports) and Fresno State (football only).

(12-07-2011 07:35 PM)TOGC Wrote:  ECU will never get in for the same reason USM will never get in.

No market.

End of story.

About as clear and concise as you can get. I just do not understand why some people can not realize this fact. It does not matter to the Big East how many fans you put in the stands. It does not matter to the Big East how good or bad of a program you have. The bottom line is clear regarding the Big East and their current expansion, TV sets in your local market. TV sets represent potential, the TV sets, the more TV revenue potential in the Big East's eyes. Outside of Boise St it is crystal clear that they value large markets over any other factor. We all know why Boise St was added even though they are not a large market school. My fellow ECU fans just need to accept the facts and move on....The Big East has no interest in ECU, we are located in a rural market thus we do not fit into their current business model.

(12-07-2011 07:32 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  Markets are important but the facilities and performance has to be there.

SDSU has a huge football stadium to work with and have been competitive recently as a deciding factor.

The stadiums at SJSU and Fresno aren't exactly BE par. I guess SJSU could play its home games at a local NFL stadium. UNLV has a 40,000 seat stadium that is less than half full.

East Carolina can deliver the Big East 50,000 fans and by joining the BE can put more distance between the BE and Mount-USA.

Fresno's Facilities are quite Solid...

Save Mart Center- 15K
Bulldog Stadium- 42K