(07-23-2011 01:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:18 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:14 PM)RobertN Wrote:  My money comes from my hard work.

Congratulations, that is step one on becoming a conservative.

It is also step one in becoming a liberal and a human being.

No, step one in becoming a liberal is....I don't want to work hard enough, so someone else should give me stuff.

No step one in becoming a liberal is having faith in your fellow Americans that we can all achieve more by working together rather than acting like like greedy SOBs.

Except liberals don't believe this. They just demand producers follow this philosophy.

(07-23-2011 02:45 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think the backbone of America itself is to be able to work together for common goals. Where the far left messes up is where they believe that the only way working together can be done is if it's facilitated by a government that knows absolutely nothing about your goals.

I think they also mistake greed for doing well for yourself.

Well, if the serfs aren't all equally miserable, then they MUST be greedy.

Morale is really bad right now so we must do something. The floggings will begin at noon.

What the left in general and the far left in particular screws up is in the understanding of human nature. Self interest is a powerful motivator but the far left believes that it can perfect human nature. Where have you ever seen somebody work hard to produce something when he himself will get no reward for his work? They claim it is GREED that causes somebody to want to see a reward for themselves and their families for all their hard work.

That reward incentive has always been there and the far left wants to change that and decide when somebody has enough and they want to distribute the fruits of that person's labor to others. But that statist mindset often deludes the holder into thinking that HE/SHE will be one of the "favored" ones when their utopian paradise becomes reality.

I now leave you to more of Rob's inane comments.

:ncaabbs: Yes...That's what I am talking about. Only you are much more eloquent than I.

(07-23-2011 02:49 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:18 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Congratulations, that is step one on becoming a conservative.

It is also step one in becoming a liberal and a human being.

No, step one in becoming a liberal is....I don't want to work hard enough, so someone else should give me stuff.

No step one in becoming a liberal is having faith in your fellow Americans that we can all achieve more by working together rather than acting like like greedy SOBs.

Except liberals don't believe this. They just demand producers follow this philosophy.

The only things they produce is poverty and red tape.

(07-23-2011 02:20 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:08 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  No, step one in becoming a liberal is....I don't want to work hard enough, so someone else should give me stuff.

No step one in becoming a liberal is having faith in your fellow Americans that we can all achieve more by working together rather than acting like like greedy SOBs.

Ok Comrade.

Not surprised by that response from a greedy SOB such as yourself. I guess you never work with others at work to get more accomplished?

Of course we work together...out of our self interests. A concept you obviously have no clue about.

Oh...BTW...I have no problem with greed. Without it...NONE of us would have damn thing.

Yes, we know you think greed is good Ayn.

(07-23-2011 02:45 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think the backbone of America itself is to be able to work together for common goals. Where the far left messes up is where they believe that the only way working together can be done is if it's facilitated by a government that knows absolutely nothing about your goals.

I think they also mistake greed for doing well for yourself.

Well, if the serfs aren't all equally miserable, then they MUST be greedy.

Morale is really bad right now so we must do something. The floggings will begin at noon.

What the left in general and the far left in particular screws up is in the understanding of human nature. Self interest is a powerful motivator but the far left believes that it can perfect human nature. Where have you ever seen somebody work hard to produce something when he himself will get no reward for his work? They claim it is GREED that causes somebody to want to see a reward for themselves and their families for all their hard work.

That reward incentive has always been there and the far left wants to change that and decide when somebody has enough and they want to distribute the fruits of that person's labor to others. But that statist mindset often deludes the holder into thinking that HE/SHE will be one of the "favored" ones when their utopian paradise becomes reality.

I now leave you to more of Rob's inane comments.

Ah, more of the Ayn Rand "self interest" bull****. Btw, your post isn't even close to refelcting reality. It is just something some Republican "think tank" somewhere put out as propaganda and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

(07-23-2011 03:47 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:45 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think the backbone of America itself is to be able to work together for common goals. Where the far left messes up is where they believe that the only way working together can be done is if it's facilitated by a government that knows absolutely nothing about your goals.

I think they also mistake greed for doing well for yourself.

Well, if the serfs aren't all equally miserable, then they MUST be greedy.

Morale is really bad right now so we must do something. The floggings will begin at noon.

What the left in general and the far left in particular screws up is in the understanding of human nature. Self interest is a powerful motivator but the far left believes that it can perfect human nature. Where have you ever seen somebody work hard to produce something when he himself will get no reward for his work? They claim it is GREED that causes somebody to want to see a reward for themselves and their families for all their hard work.

That reward incentive has always been there and the far left wants to change that and decide when somebody has enough and they want to distribute the fruits of that person's labor to others. But that statist mindset often deludes the holder into thinking that HE/SHE will be one of the "favored" ones when their utopian paradise becomes reality.

I now leave you to more of Rob's inane comments.

Ah, more of the Ayn Rand "self interest" bull****. Btw, your post isn't even close to refelcting reality. It is just something some Republican "think tank" somewhere put out as propaganda and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

Just because you aren't capable of independent thought doesn't mean others aren't.

(07-23-2011 11:37 AM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:17 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I don't think most people have any idea how bad things are. We have to make drastic immediate cuts to spending or we'll face a much worse fate than a technical default. To put it in perspective, it would be like a family taking in $30,000 a year but spending $45,000. They already have $140,000 in debt and basically no equity or savings. Their interest payments are at minimum $4200 a year. There interest is only going to go up every year as they add $15000 a year to their debt. Unless they restructure their debt or drastically cut out all the spending that is not absolutely essential, there is no way to pay it off. That's the financial situation of the US. Oh and then add in that the family is going to take in their elderly parents and pay all their expenses too. (aka medicare and SS). You quickly see there is almost no way we can pay off our debts. So the real question is, do we restructure now and suffer the pain, or do we wait til we're so far in debt we're completely screwed.

Our debt is nowhere near that as a percentage of GDP. That is why the situation is not so dire, we aren't at the end game, we can make reasonable cuts now and continue to work towards paying off our debt. There is no immediate need to lop off half of the government budget.

You realize the GDP is not a static number, right? I assume you do understand that it can lower, and quickly. Right?

(07-23-2011 04:06 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:37 AM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:17 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I don't think most people have any idea how bad things are. We have to make drastic immediate cuts to spending or we'll face a much worse fate than a technical default. To put it in perspective, it would be like a family taking in $30,000 a year but spending $45,000. They already have $140,000 in debt and basically no equity or savings. Their interest payments are at minimum $4200 a year. There interest is only going to go up every year as they add $15000 a year to their debt. Unless they restructure their debt or drastically cut out all the spending that is not absolutely essential, there is no way to pay it off. That's the financial situation of the US. Oh and then add in that the family is going to take in their elderly parents and pay all their expenses too. (aka medicare and SS). You quickly see there is almost no way we can pay off our debts. So the real question is, do we restructure now and suffer the pain, or do we wait til we're so far in debt we're completely screwed.

Our debt is nowhere near that as a percentage of GDP. That is why the situation is not so dire, we aren't at the end game, we can make reasonable cuts now and continue to work towards paying off our debt. There is no immediate need to lop off half of the government budget.

You realize the GDP is not a static number, right? I assume you do understand that it can lower, and quickly. Right?

ding dong. we have a winner and we are on the verge of drastically lowering it by refusing to pass a debt ceiling increase.

(07-23-2011 03:54 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 03:47 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:45 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 02:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think the backbone of America itself is to be able to work together for common goals. Where the far left messes up is where they believe that the only way working together can be done is if it's facilitated by a government that knows absolutely nothing about your goals.

I think they also mistake greed for doing well for yourself.

Well, if the serfs aren't all equally miserable, then they MUST be greedy.

Morale is really bad right now so we must do something. The floggings will begin at noon.

What the left in general and the far left in particular screws up is in the understanding of human nature. Self interest is a powerful motivator but the far left believes that it can perfect human nature. Where have you ever seen somebody work hard to produce something when he himself will get no reward for his work? They claim it is GREED that causes somebody to want to see a reward for themselves and their families for all their hard work.

That reward incentive has always been there and the far left wants to change that and decide when somebody has enough and they want to distribute the fruits of that person's labor to others. But that statist mindset often deludes the holder into thinking that HE/SHE will be one of the "favored" ones when their utopian paradise becomes reality.

I now leave you to more of Rob's inane comments.

Ah, more of the Ayn Rand "self interest" bull****. Btw, your post isn't even close to refelcting reality. It is just something some Republican "think tank" somewhere put out as propaganda and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

Just because you aren't capable of independent thought doesn't mean others aren't.

So this "self interest" crap are his thoughts and not Ayn Rands? Ok, whatever. the rest is based on what others have told him what liberals believe. Nice try though.

(07-23-2011 01:45 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:18 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Congratulations, that is step one on becoming a conservative.

It is also step one in becoming a liberal and a human being.

No, step one in becoming a liberal is....I don't want to work hard enough, so someone else should give me stuff.

No step one in becoming a liberal is having faith in your fellow Americans that we can all achieve more by working together rather than acting like like greedy SOBs.

That's the alpha and omega of liberalism :clap2: Well played Grad

That's awesome. Really.

When did it zoom right past that and turn into, "Let's support a multi-generational welfare state"? Lyndon Johnson's Great Society?

(07-23-2011 05:00 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:45 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:09 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 01:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  It is also step one in becoming a liberal and a human being.

No, step one in becoming a liberal is....I don't want to work hard enough, so someone else should give me stuff.

No step one in becoming a liberal is having faith in your fellow Americans that we can all achieve more by working together rather than acting like like greedy SOBs.

That's the alpha and omega of liberalism :clap2: Well played Grad

That's awesome. Really.

When did it zoom right past that and turn into, "Let's support a multi-generational welfare state"? Lyndon Johnson's Great Society?

Yes, right about that time

(07-23-2011 04:06 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:37 AM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:17 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I don't think most people have any idea how bad things are. We have to make drastic immediate cuts to spending or we'll face a much worse fate than a technical default. To put it in perspective, it would be like a family taking in $30,000 a year but spending $45,000. They already have $140,000 in debt and basically no equity or savings. Their interest payments are at minimum $4200 a year. There interest is only going to go up every year as they add $15000 a year to their debt. Unless they restructure their debt or drastically cut out all the spending that is not absolutely essential, there is no way to pay it off. That's the financial situation of the US. Oh and then add in that the family is going to take in their elderly parents and pay all their expenses too. (aka medicare and SS). You quickly see there is almost no way we can pay off our debts. So the real question is, do we restructure now and suffer the pain, or do we wait til we're so far in debt we're completely screwed.

Our debt is nowhere near that as a percentage of GDP. That is why the situation is not so dire, we aren't at the end game, we can make reasonable cuts now and continue to work towards paying off our debt. There is no immediate need to lop off half of the government budget.

You realize the GDP is not a static number, right? I assume you do understand that it can lower, and quickly. Right?

The situation I laid out is exactly what our country is facing, just substitute scale...30000 for 3 trillion, 40000 for 4.5 trillion, 140000 for 14 trillion national debt. Yes, if we confiscated our entire GDP and paid down the debt and did not pay any other aspect of government, we could pay off the debt with our GDP. Trying to confiscate so much of our GDP would destroy our economy. The example I showed is exactly our current situation. We must take drastic action or be completely wiped out.

(07-23-2011 05:24 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 04:06 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:37 AM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 11:17 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I don't think most people have any idea how bad things are. We have to make drastic immediate cuts to spending or we'll face a much worse fate than a technical default. To put it in perspective, it would be like a family taking in $30,000 a year but spending $45,000. They already have $140,000 in debt and basically no equity or savings. Their interest payments are at minimum $4200 a year. There interest is only going to go up every year as they add $15000 a year to their debt. Unless they restructure their debt or drastically cut out all the spending that is not absolutely essential, there is no way to pay it off. That's the financial situation of the US. Oh and then add in that the family is going to take in their elderly parents and pay all their expenses too. (aka medicare and SS). You quickly see there is almost no way we can pay off our debts. So the real question is, do we restructure now and suffer the pain, or do we wait til we're so far in debt we're completely screwed.

Our debt is nowhere near that as a percentage of GDP. That is why the situation is not so dire, we aren't at the end game, we can make reasonable cuts now and continue to work towards paying off our debt. There is no immediate need to lop off half of the government budget.

You realize the GDP is not a static number, right? I assume you do understand that it can lower, and quickly. Right?

The situation I laid out is exactly what our country is facing, just substitute scale...30000 for 3 trillion, 40000 for 4.5 trillion, 140000 for 14 trillion national debt. Yes, if we confiscated our entire GDP and paid down the debt and did not pay any other aspect of government, we could pay off the debt with our GDP. Trying to confiscate so much of our GDP would destroy our economy. The example I showed is exactly our current situation. We must take drastic action or be completely wiped out.

Maybe. I bet you that if default occurs, the lenders will scramble to relieve the pressure of this situation. They simply have too much at stake in this to allow default. It would devastate THEM also.