With the US economy being so tied to the economies of our debtors, could they afford to not come the table and help avert disaster?

Just what would REALLY be the impact of default?

(07-22-2011 09:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  With the US economy being so tied to the economies of our debtors, could they afford to not come the table and help avert disaster?

Just what would REALLY be the impact of default?

If no deal is reached and nothing major happens, the politicians' fearmongering loses some effectiveness. That's what they're most afraid of.

(07-22-2011 09:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  With the US economy being so tied to the economies of our debtors, could they afford to not come the table and help avert disaster?

Just what would REALLY be the impact of default?

I think it would accelerate the decline of the dollar to the point that world commodities like oil are no longer pegged to it. That would be a total epic failure.

Now the dirty little secret that nobody is talking about:

If the govt wanted to they could continue to pay debts and fund essential services for some time past the 8/2 deadline..

We'd lose our credit rating and would have to borrow at a higher rate. "Sensible" politicians would see this as a reason to start living with what they get through revenue. Keyword being sensible. I don't think too many exist anymore.

EVERYTHING can be brought down to the local level, Fo. What would happen if you default on your credit cards? It's the same f'n thing.

I am not as concerned with default as our credit rating being lowered. Default is not an option and will not happen, but we've been warned by multiple rating agencies that we need to be not only raise the debt ceiling but also working toward the reduction of our debt and I'm concerned it may be to late to stop that from happening now

(07-22-2011 09:45 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  With the US economy being so tied to the economies of our debtors, could they afford to not come the table and help avert disaster?

Just what would REALLY be the impact of default?

If no deal is reached and nothing major happens, the politicians' fearmongering loses some effectiveness. That's what they're most afraid of.

That is exactly what I think would happen. I can not believe that the debtors would allow the US economy to tank over this. They simply have too much at stake in our success. Damn...even Capital One is willing to cut you a deal on credit card debt.... You bring up a good point about the political fearmongering. It has RULED America for decades.

(07-22-2011 09:49 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  I am not as concerned with default as our credit rating being lowered. Default is not an option and will not happen, but we've been warned by multiple rating agencies that we need to be not only raise the debt ceiling but also working toward the reduction of our debt and I'm concerned it may be to late to stop that from happening now

Yeah, we'll never default. Too many f'n MORONS like you will just start up the printing presses that devalue our dollar.

Seriously, I don't think you dumb*** Progs know a f'n thing about economics. We're paying BILLIONS in interest on our loans. Defaulting will lower our credit rating and give us a higher interest rate on our borrowing. If we print money to pay the loans, many of these loans are in dollars and people will stop loaning.

Do you idiots know anything? When in the HELL has Socialism or Communism EVER f'n worked? England? Nope, they're implementing Capitalism. France? Same thing. Canada, same thing. Socialism DOES NOT WORK, FOOLS!

(07-22-2011 09:47 PM)Rebel Wrote:  We'd lose our credit rating and would have to borrow at a higher rate. "Sensible" politicians would see this as a reason to start living with what they get through revenue. Keyword being sensible. I don't think too many exist anymore.

EVERYTHING can be brought down to the local level, Fo. What would happen if you default on your credit cards? It's the same f'n thing.

I have never paid a cent of interest on a credit card. Does that tell you how I use them?

Right now....I pray for default. The loss of credit rating would be the BEST thing for America at this point of run away spending. It would FORCE Washington to address spending and worldwide interventionist policies.

(07-22-2011 09:54 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:49 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  I am not as concerned with default as our credit rating being lowered. Default is not an option and will not happen, but we've been warned by multiple rating agencies that we need to be not only raise the debt ceiling but also working toward the reduction of our debt and I'm concerned it may be to late to stop that from happening now

Yeah, we'll never default. Too many f'n MORONS like you will just start up the printing presses that devalue our dollar.

Seriously, I don't think you dumb*** Progs know a f'n thing about economics. We're paying BILLIONS in interest on our loans. Defaulting will lower our credit rating and give us a higher interest rate on our borrowing. If we print money to pay the loans, many of these loans are in dollars and people will stop loaning.

Do you idiots know anything? When in the HELL has Socialism or Communism EVER f'n worked? England? Nope, they're implementing Capitalism. France? Same thing. Canada, same thing. Socialism DOES NOT WORK, FOOLS!

Printing money to pay debts?.....Sounds like pre Nazi Germany. It is called hyperinflation and is likely the cause of the rise of the 3rd Reich.

Default = Great Depression v2.0

Is that easy enough for you idiot righties to understand.

Absolute worse case scenario?

1. We dont pass an increase of the debt ceiling.
2. We can no longer borrow the money to pay for the budget already passed by the Congress and signed by the President.
3. We immediately cut 40% of the said budget but still keep paying what we already owe. This effectively slashing 10% of GDP in one fell swoop while still keeping our debt obligations intact
4. Even though we are still paying our obligations, the rating agencies downgrade us. Interest rates go up on Government debt and that trickles down quickly to the private credit sector.
5. The stock market freaks out over the dissapearance of 10% of GDP and higher interest rates and plummets below 9,000.
6. The private sector can no longer get credit and must layoff in large numbers because they can't make payroll due to 10% of the GDP disappearing overnight and the earlier contraction of our economy.
7. Unemployment, due to the federal government's mass furloughs and the contraction in the private sector, rises to 15%.
8. The housing market, already on the verge of collapse, falls of the cliff effectively killing the most common avenue of wealth accumulation of the middle class.
9.Due to the new recession, the Federal Government is short their revenue projections by large numbers. Anything left of Social Security, Medicare, or medicaid is effectively gone taking more and more GDP away at one time. The possibility of repudiation of our debt.
10. Australia becomes the new gold standard issuer of debt.
11. The Chinese Yuan becomes the new global reserve currency.
12. Throw in a decade long global depression in their too.


Will all of this happen in an EXTENDED(August to December) default? Maybe...maybe not. But why risk it when you've already approved the spending that is leading to this need to raise the debt ceiling.

(07-22-2011 09:49 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  I am not as concerned with default as our credit rating being lowered. Default is not an option and will not happen, but we've been warned by multiple rating agencies that we need to be not only raise the debt ceiling but also working toward the reduction of our debt and I'm concerned it may be to late to stop that from happening now

This.

Whether or not failing to increase the debt ceiling would cause the fearmongers' worst scenarios to come true, it is clear that failing to reverse the ongoing deficits will cause financial Armageddon, probably sooner than later.

(07-22-2011 09:54 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:49 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  I am not as concerned with default as our credit rating being lowered. Default is not an option and will not happen, but we've been warned by multiple rating agencies that we need to be not only raise the debt ceiling but also working toward the reduction of our debt and I'm concerned it may be to late to stop that from happening now

Yeah, we'll never default. Too many f'n MORONS like you will just start up the printing presses that devalue our dollar.

Seriously, I don't think you dumb*** Progs know a f'n thing about economics. We're paying BILLIONS in interest on our loans. Defaulting will lower our credit rating and give us a higher interest rate on our borrowing. If we print money to pay the loans, many of these loans are in dollars and people will stop loaning.

Do you idiots know anything? When in the HELL has Socialism or Communism EVER f'n worked? England? Nope, they're implementing Capitalism. France? Same thing. Canada, same thing. Socialism DOES NOT WORK, FOOLS!

I hope you're happy now everybody knows you're an idiot

(07-23-2011 12:42 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Default = Great Depression v2.0

Is that easy enough for you idiot righties to understand.

I don't believe that for an instant.

Does anyone think that those that hold the paper would be forced to come to the table and renegotiate terms of payment if we actually go into default?

I can't see China allowing the US to default. They have too much at stake.

I'm not convinced we'll default if we don't raise the debt ceiling. I think that's a lot of fear-mongering from the left. I think to meet its debt obligations, congress and the president will have to quit all the posturing and do the hard work they all promised they'd do while they were campaigning.

Hard work that will piss a lot of people off. No sacred cows. Defense. Social Security. The whole enchilada. That's what statesmen would do.

If we had any.

(07-23-2011 05:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:49 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  I am not as concerned with default as our credit rating being lowered. Default is not an option and will not happen, but we've been warned by multiple rating agencies that we need to be not only raise the debt ceiling but also working toward the reduction of our debt and I'm concerned it may be to late to stop that from happening now

This.

Whether or not failing to increase the debt ceiling would cause the fearmongers' worst scenarios to come true, it is clear that failing to reverse the ongoing deficits will cause financial Armageddon, probably sooner than later.

We cannot even balance the budget, no less pay any part of the debt back. Financial Armageddon is already here (Wall Street will still get their bonuses ) The debt momentum is an addiction only the GOP seem interested in reversing. The Fed Reserve books have already been cooked. They are secret for a reason. The only sane approach is to raise the debt ceiling by $1Tr-Tr-Tr-Trillion and cut $1Trillion from today's budget. If we don't cut dollar for dollar we are done.

(07-23-2011 08:12 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm not convinced we'll default if we don't raise the debt ceiling. I think that's a lot of fear-mongering from the left. I think to meet its debt obligations, congress and the president will have to quit all the posturing and do the hard work they all promised they'd do while they were campaigning.

Hard work that will piss a lot of people off. No sacred cows. Defense. Social Security. The whole enchilada. That's what statesmen would do.

If we had any.

That is what needs to be done. I don't believe for a second it will. There will be a deal struck and it will push the problem further into the future. Not a single person in congress without Paul as his last name has the guts to do what needs to be done.

(07-23-2011 08:15 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 08:12 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm not convinced we'll default if we don't raise the debt ceiling. I think that's a lot of fear-mongering from the left. I think to meet its debt obligations, congress and the president will have to quit all the posturing and do the hard work they all promised they'd do while they were campaigning.

Hard work that will piss a lot of people off. No sacred cows. Defense. Social Security. The whole enchilada. That's what statesmen would do.

If we had any.

That is what needs to be done. I don't believe for a second it will. There will be a deal struck and it will push the problem further into the future. Not a single person in congress without Paul as his last name has the guts to do what needs to be done.

That's the attraction of Ron Paul he seems to have integrity and courage to hold his convictions unlike anyone on the scene today.

(07-23-2011 08:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 12:42 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Default = Great Depression v2.0

Is that easy enough for you idiot righties to understand.

I don't believe that for an instant.

Well, given that you live in a fantasy world, I don't think any of us expected you to believe it.