(07-20-2011 12:35 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:24 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

That's a good point.

When I lost my job last October, we discovered pretty fast how cheaply we could live, now that I'm employed again, we're trying hard not to fall into those old habits.

What's missing (at every level, really) is the notion of delayed gratification. Why should I wait for something when I can break out the plastic and have it right now?

you know what really hurt? The creation of things that aren't necessary, but are deemed to be so. DVR is one. That's an extra cost that people don't need. How about iphones? A dude I work with is still struggling to pay off his student loans, yet he ran out and got the iphone when it came to verizon. Why not use Metro PCS and save $40/month?
-HBO/Starz/Showtime- why buy the premium channels?
-Soda/Energy Drinks, etc.- why not just drink water? You can save around $30-40/month
-3D movies- It'll cost a family of four an extra $15 or so/trip to the movies. That's a waste
-Cook your meals! This is probably the biggest difference between the generations. How many people go out to eat 3,4, sometimes 5 times/week? You could make a giant pot of chili or soup and use it for lunch during the week.
-Tablet computers- how many people really have a need for an ipad or a xoom?
-Fancy TVs- Is it really worth it to spring for the super high end TV? Can you not possibly survive with a lower model version?

That's what I was trying to say above.

We went about 9 years w/o CaTV. We could afford it, but elected not to. We got it when I got a super low price.
We don't drink soda.
We do eat in. We average a meal out 1/month, and we often use coupons. It's a treat then.
Bare minimum phone plans, w/ additional discounts thru work.
We hardly ever go to movies. My 8yo has been to one movie in his life, other than at museums.
We hang our clothes out to dry (in warm weather). Saves money and helps the environment.
I cut my kids' hair. Not trying to drive barbers out of business, but people used to save money by doing things themselves.

What we do have is savings. My car broke down on Sat, when we were out of town. A pain in the neck. Nevertheless, I've got the money to pay for it. It was a nuisance, not a crisis that made me miss my mortgage and electric bill.

(07-20-2011 12:44 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:35 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:24 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

That's a good point.

When I lost my job last October, we discovered pretty fast how cheaply we could live, now that I'm employed again, we're trying hard not to fall into those old habits.

What's missing (at every level, really) is the notion of delayed gratification. Why should I wait for something when I can break out the plastic and have it right now?

you know what really hurt? The creation of things that aren't necessary, but are deemed to be so. DVR is one. That's an extra cost that people don't need. How about iphones? A dude I work with is still struggling to pay off his student loans, yet he ran out and got the iphone when it came to verizon. Why not use Metro PCS and save $40/month?
-HBO/Starz/Showtime- why buy the premium channels?
-Soda/Energy Drinks, etc.- why not just drink water? You can save around $30-40/month
-3D movies- It'll cost a family of four an extra $15 or so/trip to the movies. That's a waste
-Cook your meals! This is probably the biggest difference between the generations. How many people go out to eat 3,4, sometimes 5 times/week? You could make a giant pot of chili or soup and use it for lunch during the week.
-Tablet computers- how many people really have a need for an ipad or a xoom?
-Fancy TVs- Is it really worth it to spring for the super high end TV? Can you not possibly survive with a lower model version?

That's what I was trying to say above.

We went about 9 years w/o CaTV. We could afford it, but elected not to. We got it when I got a super low price.
We don't drink soda.
We do eat in. We average a meal out 1/month, and we often use coupons. It's a treat then.
Bare minimum phone plans, w/ additional discounts thru work.
We hardly ever go to movies. My 8yo has been to one movie in his life, other than at museums.
We hang our clothes out to dry (in warm weather). Saves money and helps the environment.
I cut my kids' hair. Not trying to drive barbers out of business, but people used to save money by doing things themselves.

What we do have is savings. My car broke down on Sat, when we were out of town. A pain in the neck. Nevertheless, I've got the money to pay for it. It was a nuisance, not a crisis that made me miss my mortgage and electric bill.

It's like Fo said, it's about living within ones means. Definitely something that the middle class has lost touch with. My parents have told me stories about how they grew up. My mom and aunt would hear the ice cream truck and beg my grandpa for it, but he'd say no and tell them there was perfectly good ice cream in the freezer. And now my grandparents have a sizable retirement fund, go on cruises all the time and have never made a late payment on a bill. In fact I don't think either set of grandparents has ever made a late payment, same with my parents and same with me.

Families used to live within their means. They'd utilize leftovers, hang their clothes out to dry (like you said) and wouldn't buy more TVs than needed.

I realize that salaries are stagnating and aren't keeping up with inflation. I understand that there have been policies that have hurt the middle class. I'm just saying that before they start complaining about money, people should take a good look at their expenditures. I bet they'll find plenty to cut

Younger people are also much more spoiled nowadays, leading to higher expected standards when they're on their own. What will these 10-12 yr olds with iphones expect when they live on their own?

A guy i work with is 26 and makes a very good salary, 75K. But guess what... he has no savings. He told me he's broke. Why though? Could it be because he felt the need to get a penthouse apt in Hoboken, that costs him $2400/month? Talk about an insane amount to pay in rent. That's a guy who doesn't know how to live within his means

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

When your conservative overlords convince you to attack yourself and your peers I would say the brainwashing is complete

(07-20-2011 03:52 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

When your conservative overlords convince you to attack yourself and your peers I would say the brainwashing is complete

Yeah, that's what you might get from that. To hell with this personal responsibility crap.

(07-20-2011 03:52 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

When your conservative overlords convince you to attack yourself and your peers I would say the brainwashing is complete

Rom 12:3 I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment

(07-20-2011 03:44 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  Younger people are also much more spoiled nowadays, leading to higher expected standards when they're on their own. What will these 10-12 yr olds with iphones expect when they live on their own?

A guy i work with is 26 and makes a very good salary, 75K. But guess what... he has no savings. He told me he's broke. Why though? Could it be because he felt the need to get a penthouse apt in Hoboken, that costs him $2400/month? Talk about an insane amount to pay in rent. That's a guy who doesn't know how to live within his means

$2400 is about right - that's what a bank would allow him on a mortgage payment. When I lived in Fort Lee I could have rented ALL of Hoboken for $2400. Place must have changed. I remember when Edgewater and Jersey City were the arm pits of NJ; they both changed a lot over the years, now they're expensive.

(07-20-2011 03:54 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 03:52 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

When your conservative overlords convince you to attack yourself and your peers I would say the brainwashing is complete

Yeah, that's what you might get from that. To hell with this personal responsibility crap.

Taking care of ones self is personal responsibility so I will take care of myself, Swoosh can take care of himself and you can take care of Smaug. If that means an occasional hamburger or cup of coffee I have no problems with a hard worker enjoying the fruits of his labor.

Isn't anyone curious as to what these percentages are in 2011 since that chart is 6 years old?

What do you think the next generation will do when they find out they each owe $150,000, their part in the national debt at 15trillion now, of which Obama added 1/3 to date, ~5trillion so far. And unless Congress gets a grip, Obama plans to add another 5trillion to the debt before he leaves office in 2012.

(07-20-2011 04:06 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  What do you think the next generation will do when they find out they each owe $150,000, their part in the national debt at 15trillion now, of which Obama added 1/3 to date, ~5trillion so far. And unless Congress gets a grip, Obama plans to add another 5trillion to the debt before he leaves office in 2012.

Skip the 2nd fridge?

(07-20-2011 04:10 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 04:06 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  What do you think the next generation will do when they find out they each owe $150,000, their part in the national debt at 15trillion now, of which Obama added 1/3 to date, ~5trillion so far. And unless Congress gets a grip, Obama plans to add another 5trillion to the debt before he leaves office in 2012.

Skip the 2nd fridge?

HAH!

And I see SuckOnAllRears is still nothing but a worthless talking point. Time to retire old man

BTW - Nice rounding job on the total debt...LOL

(07-20-2011 04:06 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Isn't anyone curious as to what these percentages are in 2011 since that chart is 6 years old?

Well, yes, but that's not exactly as quick and easy fix, now is it?

(07-20-2011 04:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 04:10 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 04:06 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  What do you think the next generation will do when they find out they each owe $150,000, their part in the national debt at 15trillion now, of which Obama added 1/3 to date, ~5trillion so far. And unless Congress gets a grip, Obama plans to add another 5trillion to the debt before he leaves office in 2012.

Skip the 2nd fridge?

HAH!

And I see SuckOnAllRears is still nothing but a worthless talking point. Time to retire old man

BTW - Nice rounding job on the total debt...LOL

I made it ~ easy for you, Simpletom. If you are wanting worthless talking points see- Scarer-in-Chief.

(07-20-2011 04:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 04:06 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Isn't anyone curious as to what these percentages are in 2011 since that chart is 6 years old?

Well, yes, but that's not exactly as quick and easy fix, now is it?

Feel free to cherry pick

Things were better 6 years ago.

(07-20-2011 11:14 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 11:12 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Throw in welfare, section 8, food stamps and maybe a little food stamp
fraud, you are living much better than people who work, so as long
as we reward bad behavior and pay people .............why be responsible.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitle...family-mak

That is the Democrat base. By maintaining these people as dependents,
and encouraging them to have more kids out of wedlock, continuing the cycle

(07-20-2011 03:52 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

When your conservative overlords convince you to attack yourself and your peers I would say the brainwashing is complete

It's typically liberals, especially left-of-center Europeans, that are critical of Suburban America's materialism, gluttony, gotta-have-it consumerism, and "keeping up with the Joneses" spending races, and propose a simplier way of living.

Yet to do so requires a household-level scaling back, cutting spending, and using fiscal restraint... all practices typically associated with conservative preferences of government.

A bit of a paradox exists.

(07-20-2011 04:23 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Things were better 6 years ago.

Just listen to the doctors. You'll be out before you know it.

(07-20-2011 04:27 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 04:23 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Things were better 6 years ago.

Just listen to the doctors. You'll be out before you know it.

Does that mean you think things are better now? Are you not following the debt crisis in the news, the unemployment numbers, foreclosures, the meatball in the oval office? Talk about boiling a frog.