http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports...is-Poverty

Liberals keep changing what qualifies as "poverty" to fit their narrative.

(07-20-2011 09:58 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  Liberals keep changing what qualifies as "poverty" to fit their narrative.

This is what I wrote a few days ago at Maggie's Farm

Quote:Great stuff. Facts are pesky things for the narrative.

Moving up the economic ladder, what about the "war on the middle class"? Sure makes for great political rhetoric, but not a lot of truth.

The complainers like to bring up the heyday of the middle class: the 1950s and 60s, but they don't talk much about them.

Avg size home was 1600 sq ft, folks had 1 car, a fridge and stove. One phone line, although if things were tight, you might get a party line. TV was a big deal, although by the 60s most folks had one: 20" was adequate.

No CaTV, no unlimited data on cell phones. No spa tub. No granite countertops, no stainless steel industrial sized fridge. Ownership of a washer and dryer was well under 50%, and you most certainly washed dishes by hand. Your one car DID NOT have keyless remote, a CD player, a DVD player for the kids, 100K drive train warranties, ABS, air bags, or even AC. (Ok, you splurged to get AM radio).

I'd suggest that if that definition of middle class returned, that it's easily affordable today. And you get more for your money: Cell phones aren't required to be expensive, and you don't pay for long distance. Internet is essentially a requirement today, but it's not burdensome. And it's not hard to find affordable used W/D.

And like the middle class of yore, you can aspire to more as you work had and save. There are incentives to do well, and opportunities too. But the attitude now is that you deserve it all...right now.

Only 9% of poor American's have a beer fridge? I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT.

On Edit:

Torch, I don't think you can blame poor people for having cars that have have keyless remote, a CD player, a DVD player for the kids, 100K drive train warranties, ABS, air bags, or even AC. That's they way they are built nowadays, and when those cars go to the used car lot, the poor can buy them.

I think the advent of safe, reliable vehicle transportation is a huge gain, and probably helps the poor more than anything else on the list/

Poor in America sure isn't like poor anywhere else.

(07-20-2011 10:07 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Only 9% of poor American's have a beer fridge? I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT.

On Edit:

Torch, I don't think you can blame poor people for having cars that have have keyless remote, a CD player, a DVD player for the kids, 100K drive train warranties, ABS, air bags, or even AC. That's they way they are built nowadays, and when those cars go to the used car lot, the poor can buy them.

I think the advent of safe, reliable vehicle transportation is a huge gain, and probably helps the poor more than anything else on the list/

LS,
I wasn't "blaming" the poor for any of that. And I'm extending things to the "war on the middle class". I'm pointing out that during the 50s and 60s the middle class settled for fewer things, and what you get today with those is often better than what they had back then.

In short, the middle class is doing as well as they did back then for the goods and services they need.

If there is a war on the middle class, it comes directly from the progressives. There are two main areas attacking middle class finances:

Progressive tax rates...today's middle class is in higher tax brackets.

College costs...today's middle class has been indoctrinated by progressives that they "need" a college education, and that demand has pushed prices to outpace inflation by a factor of 4 or higher.

Poor....is certainly relative.

An oven, a refrigerator and air conditioning... those selfish SOBs

(07-20-2011 10:30 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  An oven, a refrigerator and air conditioning... those selfish SOBs

You might at least wait until another thread to lie about the subject.

(07-20-2011 10:33 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 10:30 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  An oven, a refrigerator and air conditioning... those selfish SOBs

You might at least wait until another thread to lie about the subject.

I'm sure heritage is well respected amoung the Christo-Facist-Zombie-Death-Cult that is todays conservative movement. You should ask them for a free pocket Constitution.

(07-20-2011 10:30 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  An oven, a refrigerator and air conditioning... those selfish SOBs

Considering many apartments-even the cheapest of the cheap(though not all)- include those things, I am not really surprised.

If a person can afford most of that stuff then they can afford to pay taxes.

(07-20-2011 10:46 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 10:33 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 10:30 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  An oven, a refrigerator and air conditioning... those selfish SOBs

You might at least wait until another thread to lie about the subject.

I'm sure heritage is well respected amoung the Christo-Facist-Zombie-Death-Cult that is todays conservative movement. You should ask them for a free pocket Constitution.

Fascists don't like Heritage. Just ask Obama. As for "death cult", how many babies have you libs killed since 1973? What's the body county up to?

Throw in welfare, section 8, food stamps and maybe a little food stamp
fraud, you are living much better than people who work, so as long
as we reward bad behavior and pay people .............why be responsible.

(07-20-2011 11:12 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Throw in welfare, section 8, food stamps and maybe a little food stamp
fraud, you are living much better than people who work, so as long
as we reward bad behavior and pay people .............why be responsible.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitle...family-mak

Socio-economic classifications are fuzzy, at best, and are often used (and abused) for political purposes.

The chart ultimately shows that the official definition of "poverty level" or "poor" in the US certainly means something different than it would in Sweden, or China, or Kenya. If you owned cable TV, a DVD player, multiple televisions, A/C, and a clothes washer (as does more than half below the poverty line in the US), you would be considered financially well above the median in dozens of countries around the world.

this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

That's a good point.

When I lost my job last October, we discovered pretty fast how cheaply we could live, now that I'm employed again, we're trying hard not to fall into those old habits.

What's missing (at every level, really) is the notion of delayed gratification. Why should I wait for something when I can break out the plastic and have it right now?

(07-20-2011 12:24 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

That's a good point.

When I lost my job last October, we discovered pretty fast how cheaply we could live, now that I'm employed again, we're trying hard not to fall into those old habits.

What's missing (at every level, really) is the notion of delayed gratification. Why should I wait for something when I can break out the plastic and have it right now?

you know what really hurt? The creation of things that aren't necessary, but are deemed to be so. DVR is one. That's an extra cost that people don't need. How about iphones? A dude I work with is still struggling to pay off his student loans, yet he ran out and got the iphone when it came to verizon. Why not use Metro PCS and save $40/month?
-HBO/Starz/Showtime- why buy the premium channels?
-Soda/Energy Drinks, etc.- why not just drink water? You can save around $30-40/month
-3D movies- It'll cost a family of four an extra $15 or so/trip to the movies. That's a waste
-Cook your meals! This is probably the biggest difference between the generations. How many people go out to eat 3,4, sometimes 5 times/week? You could make a giant pot of chili or soup and use it for lunch during the week.
-Tablet computers- how many people really have a need for an ipad or a xoom?
-Fancy TVs- Is it really worth it to spring for the super high end TV? Can you not possibly survive with a lower model version?

(07-20-2011 12:20 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is what i always say. The problem is also spending. People complain that the middle class is getting squeezed, but I contend that the middle class does that to itself more than gov't policies doing it. The middle class used to be known for scrupulously saving every penny in order to create a better life. Now the middle class spends well above its pay grade. People go to starbucks everyday, then complain they don't have any money. They go out for lunch everyday and complain they don't make enough money. How about helping yourself out first. I bet if you took a look at the average person's finances, you could save them 5-10K/year without much trouble. That's significant when you think about it spread over 40 years

I have been working essentially part time for the past 2 years and have taken probably a 15k pay cut. We simply cut out much of the nonsensical household spending and eliminated as much debt as we could. Believe it or not....Our checking account is better off today than 2 years ago. It is ALL about living within ones means.

The problem with the government is that it can simply steal for its income...We do not have that luxury.

(07-20-2011 10:46 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 10:33 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 10:30 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  An oven, a refrigerator and air conditioning... those selfish SOBs

You might at least wait until another thread to lie about the subject.

I'm sure heritage is well respected amoung the Christo-Facist-Zombie-Death-Cult that is todays conservative movement. You should ask them for a free pocket Constitution.

PeaWee, "I think you can do better"